Air Ride To Springs Strut Conversion

$

$500_Mark_VIII

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I earlier posted when I first purchased the "$500 Mark VIII". It's a 1994 Model. My Father-in-Law (Screen Name Duck on here) was helping with the diagnostics of the air ride. Never could get it to work. Ordered the conversion from American Air Suspension. Fast delivery and great phone etiquette. Began the project tonight with the intention of doing the rear by myself and then the front when I was able to get a buddy or a "father-in-law" to help. I'd never tackled a suspension before. However, I am pretty mechanically inclined.

Good news is......after five hours it's done!!!! A mellow five hours at that. An easy project... Easier than trying to figure out what the He** was wrong with the air ride suspension. Off to paint next week......New tires, belts, hoses and a tune up.....and my $500 Mark VIII will be a cruiser..... I'm excited. Duck....Thanks for your patience, answers to numerous phone calls and your help.
 
Yes......but may not be my last......I like the idea of keeping older cars around and "recycling" them.....There's another one in town that I see "slammed" to the ground, parked in the yard.......I think it may be calling my name.
 
same here im on my 2nd one i wish i would have kept my first one
 
I'm about to do the same to my "350.00" Mark.

Hard fault in the air ride, didn't feel like chasing the problem back through the electronics. I figure I'll send the compressor back to Eddie for a rebuild and keep it and the bags off the 98 as spares for my 97.

Let us know what you think about the ride once you get it up and going.
 
Kstills said:
I'm about to do the same to my "350.00" Mark.

Hard fault in the air ride, didn't feel like chasing the problem back through the electronics. I figure I'll send the compressor back to Eddie for a rebuild and keep it and the bags off the 98 as spares for my 97.

Let us know what you think about the ride once you get it up and going.
Click to expand...

Kevin,
You might want to get a gerneral opinon on this prior to making that move.. I've seen a few who say the ride is terrible, as you know first hand I'm staying with Air but some of the members who have gone this route say the ride is not as comfortable and the car is squirly on the road..
May want to trouble shoot the issues with the hard code... then try to fix. I will definatly offer my assistance.
Have a good one.
Bill
96_Lincoln_LSC :D :D :D
 
96_Lincoln_LSC said:
Kevin,
You might want to get a gerneral opinon on this prior to making that move.. I've seen a few who say the ride is terrible, as you know first hand I'm staying with Air but some of the members who have gone this route say the ride is not as comfortable and the car is squirly on the road..
May want to trouble shoot the issues with the hard code... then try to fix. I will definatly offer my assistance.
Have a good one.
Bill
96_Lincoln_LSC :D :D :D
Click to expand...


I haven't scanned the board here for the merits of the coil over conversion yet (although it's apparent that folks fall into either one camp or another, and there isn't much gray area between the two opinions ;) ) but I have done a lot of research on the other board.

Most folks who have done the conversion are doing it for the same reason I am, to reduce the complexity of the car. For my son, that's a huge benefit, and even if the ride is not "Lincoln" smooth, it will be head and shoulders above "Mustang" teeth rattle. :)

Besides, once he's done with the car, converting it back won't be a big deal. And doing all of this makes me a better mechanic when I work on my own vehicle.


Of course, opening the hood would about double my mechanical skills, but that's another story.....:p

Oh, it's YOU!!!!

Doh, just noticed the sig...hows the 96 holding up? You know, brakes are wildly overated.......;)
 
I love the way mine handled after the conversion. It went from sport luxury big floaty thing to nimble and alot less body roll. Also if you search you can find the wire that goes to the message center and cut it. The car will never even know its gone or just hit reset every time you start it. :cool: :cool:
 
Excatly so if you are looking to rebuild a compressor your better off asking jamie. or even buying a new one , comparing the pricing before u send that one off for a rebuild in my blu on i went through about 2 sets of bags and one compressor so its may be even the bags that are bad and not the compressor. use the search and find directions on a self dig on the air ride. It on here i found it but good look if you need help send a pm ok
 
1bad4.6l said:
I love the way mine handled after the conversion. It went from sport luxury big floaty thing to nimble and alot less body roll.:
Click to expand...


air ride isn't "floaty".
That was due to the hydraulic portion of your air strut being worn out.

People often make the same claim/mistake.

They replace worn out air ride parts with new coil spring struts and instantly think the car is MUCH BETTER.

well it IS better because you took off the OLD worn out hydraulics in the front and replaced them with new hydraulic spring struts.

A new air strut is just as "firm" as the new coil spring struts, probably MORE FIRM.
The new air ride strut will absorb much much more than a coil spring.
The air ride portion is more for "height control" than it is for "ride quality".

"ride quality" AND "handling" come from the hydraulic portion of the strut.
 
XLRVIII said:
air ride isn't "floaty".
That was due to the hydraulic portion of your air strut being worn out.

People often make the same claim/mistake.

They replace worn out air ride parts with new coil spring struts and instantly think the car is MUCH BETTER.

well it IS better because you took off the OLD worn out hydraulics in the front and replaced them with new hydraulic spring struts.

A new air strut is just as "firm" as the new coil spring struts, probably MORE FIRM.
The new air ride strut will absorb much much more than a coil spring.
The air ride portion is more for "height control" than it is for "ride quality".

"ride quality" AND "handling" come from the hydraulic portion of the strut.
Click to expand...

That being said, what makes the hydraulic portion of the air strut so much better then the hydraulic portion of a good coil over strut?
 
my mothers 93 and mine are like driving two different animals. I still say floaty and not as stiff. Sorry my opinion is different.
 
XLRVIII has a point....and I thought about that before I changed to coils.....I drive a truck, so I only put a few miles a month on my car.....and it sits for a couple weeks at a time......if I drove it all the time, I would have replaced the air ride......but coils accomplished what I wanted out of the car.....something to run the snot out of, and not have to worry about coming home in the middle of the night/winter/weekend and have suspension problems. Ride quality wasn't a concern for me, and the only reason I didn't go with lowered coils is the backroads I travel here in central IL would not be kind to a lowered car at high speeds.
 
do you mean the airbag? Is there some kinda shock inside the bag I'm unaware of? Also her bags are roughly 2.5 years old and my strut springs are 1.5-2 years old.
 
1bad4.6l said:
do you mean the airbag? Is there some kinda shock inside the bag I'm unaware of?
Click to expand...

research is your friend.

YES the lower portion of the front strut is a hydraulic shock.

the rear is a bag only with a seperate shock absorber.


What most people fail to realize and the manufacturer( I should say shipper) isn't going to tell you IS...

The front struts for the coil coversion are just T-bird front struts.

Since the mark 8 is heavier than the t-bird it's MY opinion that the hydraulic portion of the Coil Strut wasn't intended for the Mark 8's weight.
The T-birds are "close" to the same weight but the fact remains the same.

The original coil/strut manufactuer never intended for these parts to be on this car.

The "lowered" coil conversion kits are without a doubt probably "V-6" Tbird springs.

I put 200K on my first set of air bags, and used a second set in the subsequent 200 thousand miles.

So in 400K miles I replaced the entire set of bags "ONCE".

IMHO that isn't enough of a "cost issue" or a "concern" to jump ship and put some non standard suspension products on my car.

IF you feel safe "bumping" down the road on some "V-6" springs, more power to you.

I feel that people that come across these threads need the real information and dont fall prey to the many "knee jerk" coil spring conversions that occur.

"your mileage may vary".....
 
Kstills said:
That being said, what makes the hydraulic portion of the air strut so much better then the hydraulic portion of a good coil over strut?
Click to expand...

well it's operating within it's designed application.

the Tbird strut is probably being compressed further into the tube which is what is giving that "sense of stiffer".

moving a shocks piston further into the bore is a "non desirable" event.

You get less travel, you get more foaming and more heat.

If I save ONE person from traveling down that route then I have accomplished my goal.
I know many will go the spring route regardless of what I say.
I'm not trying to "save the world".. just a SINGLE soul.
 
I've said it many times.

Most people first experience with air ride is a bad one.
They usually buy a "high mile car" and quickly have a problem.

THIS makes it a perceived problem area and SCARES THEM.

What they dont realize is the system is good for usually 150-200+K miles.

I always say a Mark 8 owner owes it to him/herself to have a working functioning air ride BEFORE they decide if coil springs are better for them.

Replacing all four bags vs a coil spring conversion is roughly a 200.00 difference in price.

The compressor can add 200 more dollars to that.

STILL it's only 100.00 per corner of the car to FIX it, rather than ditch it.

I "race" my cars, I put over 5000 dragstrip passes on my 95.
I put 400K on the car before it was stolen...the recovered stripped.
I doubt many people drive their cars harder or more than I do..

If after 200K miles on a working air ride.. I seriously doubt any/many would have put coil springs on the car.

If mine died, all four bags and the compressor.
I'd fork over the money in a heartbeat to replace it.
 
This my third mark the first two had good functioning air and this one I replaced with struts the kit I bought was from oreilys and was designed to remove the air ride from a mark It was designed for the car it still sets at stock height and stock geometry, trust me I wanted it to all be that way. So no I'm not bumping down the road with a v6 spring. My 93 I sold to my mother and it was my wifes car so it hAD TO BE AIR RIDE. and it just needed rear bags at the time. So it got four new ones. It was still floaty! I like my springs you will not sway me, for a performance minded vehicle they are better in my opinion. It is my opinion, air guys such as yourself dont agree. Either love it or hate it. BUT MINE IS STILL STIFFER THEN YOURS! :D
 
1bad4.6l said:
This my third mark the first two had good functioning air and this one I replaced with struts the kit I bought was from oreilys and was designed to remove the air ride from a mark It was designed for the car it still sets at stock height and stock geometry, trust me I wanted it to all be that way. So no I'm not bumping down the road with a v6 spring. My 93 I sold to my mother and it was my wifes car so it hAD TO BE AIR RIDE. and it just needed rear bags at the time. So it got four new ones. It was still floaty! I like my springs you will not sway me, for a performance minded vehicle they are better in my opinion. It is my opinion, air guys such as yourself dont agree. Either love it or hate it. BUT MINE IS STILL STIFFER THEN YOURS! :D
Click to expand...

The Orielly kit was not "designed" for the mark 8
it IS T-bird components
The lowerd kit is V6 Tbird components.

I am not trying to "sway" you, I dont care what you believe.
as I said I am not trying to save the world, only a single soul.

Keep bouncin "SPRINGY"...or "STIFFY" whichever you prefer.
(lol)

Wanna RACE mr performancemindedindividual?
I'll "give ya the move"
 
This performancemindedindividual will be at kcir wed the 22 of july I will post my time slip accordingly. Thank you for trying to save my heathen soul.
 
Can't we all just get along??? Took the converted car out for a drive today. Didn't get it up to speed. Just "taxied" it around the neighborhood a little. Gotta bleed the brakes, change fuel filter and clean the fuel injectors before I really take it out for a spin. Oh yeah.......Tires tomorrow (all four corners) and goes in for paint (black over black) next Monday. My father-in-law has a '93 with air ride. I'll compare my ride to his after I finish getting it finalized.

I'll be honest. I made the conversion decision because I didn't want to have to chase problems any further or have future problems as the working parts wore out over time. This car has sat for over five years and I just didn't trust, if I got the air ride working, that it would continue to work. I know, air ride guys, I'm a woose and gave up too early. The fact is this car is my stress relief and I love working on it (if things continue moving forward). When it doesn't move forward, my stress relief becomes my stress. Springs and struts seemed to be the "less stress" woosey way to go. Gosh.......do I need therapy???
 
I've had air ride in my Mark VIII since buying it.
I replaced the air bags at about 150k miles.
I'm currently at about 230k miles. Absolutely no leaks in the system right now.

With that said, the air bags aren't the weak, trouble prone area of the suspension- it's everything else.

I've had several vent solenoids fail on me.
The original Spider Valve failed on me.
I'm now using the Spider Valve Extreme with good success.

The dryers have failed on me.

Compressors have failed.

At one point, one of the air lines behind the back seat developed a leak.

And right now, I think the relay has died again. Fortunately, I can fill up the car with the spider valve.

In hindsight, had I just converted to coil springs at the beginning, I could have saved a fair bit of money and an incalculable amount of aggravation. Nothing like having your Mark VIII slam itself while driving to Giant Stadium in the winter, and then drive home on the crappy New Jersey turnpike at highway speed like that as well.
 
I've got 35K on my coil conversion withouta problem. I prefer the ride too. This is one of those topics that everybody has to agree to disagree on. Personally the air ride was a hassle and a constant worry about what was going to go wrong next. Now, I don't even think about my suspension which is the way its supposed to be.
 
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