American scientists favor turning a greenhouse gas back into gasoline

04SCTLS

Dedicated LVC Member
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
3,188
Reaction score
7
Location
Lockport
American scientists favor turning a greenhouse gas back into gasoline
dot_h.gif

By Kenneth Chang
Published: February 21, 2008
dot_h.gif


at_narrow_top.gif



http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/02/21/healthscience/22carbon.php?page=1
dots_at_narrow.gif





at_narrow_bot.gif


If two scientists at Los Alamos National Laboratory are correct, people will still be driving gasoline-powered cars 50 years from now, churning out heat-trapping carbon dioxide into the atmosphere — and yet that carbon dioxide will not contribute to global warming.
The scientists, Jeffrey Martin and William Kubic Jr., are proposing a concept, which they have patriotically named Green Freedom, for removing carbon dioxide from the air and turning it back into gasoline.
The idea is simple. Air would be blown over a liquid solution of potassium carbonate, which would absorb the carbon dioxide. The carbon dioxide would then be extracted and subjected to chemical reactions that would turn it into fuel: methanol, gasoline or jet fuel.
This process could transform carbon dioxide from an unwanted, climate-changing pollutant into a vast resource for renewable fuels. The closed cycle — equal amounts of carbon dioxide emitted and removed — would mean that cars, trucks and airplanes using the synthetic fuels would no longer be contributing to global warming.
Although they have not yet built a synthetic fuel factory, or even a small prototype, the scientists say it is all based on existing technology.
dot_h.gif

"Everything in the concept has been built, is operating or has a close cousin that is operating," Martin said.



The Los Alamos proposal does not violate any laws of physics, and other scientists, like George Olah, a Nobel Prize-winning chemist at the University of Southern California, and Klaus Lackner, a professor of geophysics at Columbia University, have independently suggested similar ideas. Martin said he and Kubic had worked out their concept in more detail than previous proposals.
There is, however, a major caveat that explains why no one has built a carbon-dioxide-to-gasoline factory: it requires a great deal of energy.
To deal with that problem, the Los Alamos scientists say they have developed a number of innovations, including a new electrochemical process for detaching the carbon dioxide after it has been absorbed into the potassium carbonate solution. The process has been tested in Kubic's garage, in a simple apparatus that looks like mutant Tupperware.
Even with those improvements, providing the energy to produce gasoline on a commercial scale — say, 750,000 gallons a day — would require a dedicated power plant, preferably a nuclear one, the scientists say.
According to their analysis, their concept, which would cost about $5 billion to build, could produce gasoline at an operating cost of $1.40 a gallon and would turn economically viable when the price at the pump hits $4.60 a gallon, taking into account construction costs and other expenses in getting the gas to the consumer. With some additional technological advances, the break-even price would drop to $3.40 a gallon, they said.
A nuclear reactor is not required technologically. The same chemical processes could also be powered by solar panels, for instance, but the economics become far less favorable.
Martin and Kubic presentrf their Green Freedom concept Wednesday at the Alternative Energy Now conference in Lake Buena Vista, Florida. They planned a simple demonstration within a year and a larger prototype within a couple of years after that.
A commercial nuclear-powered gasoline factory would have to jump some high hurdles before it could be built, and thousands of them would be needed to fully replace petroleum, but this part of the global warming problem has no easy solutions.
In the efforts to reduce humanity's emissions of carbon dioxide, now nearing 30 billion metric tons a year, most of the attention so far has focused on large stationary sources, like power plants where, conceptually at least, one could imagine a shift from fuels that emit carbon dioxide — coal and natural gas — to those that do not — nuclear, solar and wind. Another strategy, known as carbon capture and storage, would continue the use of fossil fuels but trap the carbon dioxide and then pipe it underground where it would not affect the climate.
But to stabilize carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere would require drastic cuts in emissions, and similar solutions do not exist for small, mobile sources of carbon dioxide. Nuclear and solar-powered cars do not seem plausible anytime soon.
Three solutions have been offered: hydrogen-powered fuel cells, electric cars and biofuels. Biofuels like ethanol are gasoline substitutes produced from plants like corn, sugar cane or switch grass, and the underlying idea is the same as Green Freedom. Plants absorb carbon dioxide as they grow, balancing out the carbon dioxide emitted when they are burned. But growing crops for fuel takes up wide swaths of land.
Hydrogen-powered cars emit no carbon dioxide, but producing hydrogen, by splitting water or some other chemical reaction, requires copious energy, and if that energy comes from coal-fired power plants, then the problem has not been solved. Hydrogen is also harder to store and move than gasoline and would require an overhaul of the world's energy infrastructure.
Electric cars also push the carbon dioxide problem to the power plant. And electric cars have typically been limited to a range of tens of miles as opposed to the hundreds of miles that can be driven on a tank of gas.
Gasoline, it turns out, is an almost ideal fuel (except that it produces 19.4 pounds of carbon dioxide per gallon). It is easily transported, and it generates more energy per volume than most alternatives. If it can be made out of carbon dioxide in the air, the Los Alamos concept may mean there is little reason to switch, after all. The concept can also be adapted for jet fuel; for jetliners, neither hydrogen nor batteries seem plausible alternatives.
"This is the only one that I have seen that addresses all of the concerns that are out there right now," Martin said.
Other scientists said the Los Alamos proposal perhaps looked promising but could not evaluate it fully because the details had not been published.
"It's definitely worth pursuing," said Martin Hoffert, a professor of physics at New York University. "It's not that new an idea. It has a couple of pieces to it that are interesting."
 
That would be cool if they could get it to work.
 
Yes,
CO2 emissions are a fact and for this case it doesn't matter if Global Warming is caused by man of just part of a natural climate cycle.
It is certainly a worthy technological goal to pursue and would give us back our energy independence, as well as slow down and stop this massive transference of wealth to not exactly friendly oil producing countries.
 
Yes,
CO2 emissions are a fact and for this case it doesn't matter if Global Warming is caused by man of just part of a natural climate cycle.
It is certainly a worthy technological goal to pursue and would give us back our energy independence, as well as slow down and stop this massive transference of wealth to not exactly friendly oil producing countries.

I am tfocused more about dependance of foreign oil. I also want to keep my gas guzzlin car. This would actually make everyone happen (or so it seems).

What do you mean by "co2 emissions are a fact"?
 
I am tfocused more about dependance of foreign oil. I also want to keep my gas guzzlin car. This would actually make everyone happen (or so it seems).

What do you mean by "co2 emissions are a fact"?
v

Just stating the obvious. Burning fuel releases CO2 into the atmosphere.
Global Warming is also a fact, but is it a result of man's activity is just speculation.
Anyways, making gasoline and other fuels out of thin air almost sounds like magic but is possible.
Think of what could be done if a trillion dollars (equivalent to the cost of the Iraq war so far) was put behind an effort for this.
We developed the atom and hydrogen bomb and put a man on the moon so it may be time for the next president to set a goal here if further advances are successful and show promise.
Energy independance would be the greatest single achievement we could hope for to allow us to continue our superpower status and way of life indefinately into the future.
 
Just stating the obvious. Burning fuel releases CO2 into the atmosphere.
Global Warming is also a fact, but is it a result of man's activity is just speculation.

I see. Thanks for clarifying.

Energy independance would be the greatest single achievement we could hope for to allow us to continue our superpower status and way of life indefinately into the future.

yep.
 
v

Just stating the obvious. Burning fuel releases CO2 into the atmosphere.
So does breathing.

I guess when we turn all the CO2 into gas, the plants won't be able to make oxygen. Then we'll be accused of starving the world of air. :rolleyes:
 
So does breathing.

I guess when we turn all the CO2 into gas, the plants won't be able to make oxygen. Then we'll be accused of starving the world of air. :rolleyes:

yep... i was just bout to point that out actually.. what they should do is increase plant (green plants) production, cut down on using lumber, and find a way to make hydrogen a viable source for gas. there's plenty of it in space and obviously we can get there enough to collect it. only thing is what does burnt hydrogen produce?
 
burning hydrogen produces water.
This turning Co2 into fuel hasn't even come to pass yet
so I think it's a little early to start talking about depriving the planet of oxygen.
Co2 emissions will only increase over the next 50 years with China and India among others industrializing so there's plenty of Co2 to exploit but yes I can see how over exploitation can lead to a new set of problems.
The late mayor of Toronto Alan Lamport used to say
"We'll jump off that bridge when we get to it"
 
The late mayor of Toronto Alan Lamport used to say
"We'll jump off that bridge when we get to it"

Ted Kennedy used to say something similar..."we'll drive off that bridge when we get there."
 
So does breathing.

I guess when we turn all the CO2 into gas, the plants won't be able to make oxygen. Then we'll be accused of starving the world of air. :rolleyes:

Upon further thought we would be recycling the Co2 as it would be re emitted back into the atmosphere when the gas is burned.
We couldn't turn it all into gas because the gas would be burned every day.
As long as we left enough in the atmosphere for for the plants to make oxygen things would be fine.
Since we've been pumping Co2 from various sources into the atmosphere for 150 years there should be quite a reserve.
 
As long as we left enough in the atmosphere for for the plants to make oxygen things would be fine.
Well if it were that simple then we wouldn't have to do this stupid carbon credit thing, now would we? So how are we going to do that? Asinine. You're actually ADVOCATING that we control the weather despite the fact that we can't even measure temperature right. :rolleyes:

This is the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.
 
All kinds of things were considered ludicrous at one time.
Flying through the air, space exploration and a computer in every home come to mind.
The concept here is simple, it's the engineering and execution that's the hard part.
I'm not advocating controlling the weather, just recycling Co2.
I don't think there's anything asinine about having an open mind to new ideas
whatever the current state of science and technology.
 

Members online

No members online now.
Back
Top