Are we still a secular nation?

[barry2952]

Detroit Free Press

November 4, 2004


Are we still a secular nation?

We should be.

But there's a growing risk that politicians will take a different lesson from Tuesday's election results: To win, you've got to out-pious your opponent.

From the victory of President George W. Bush to a handful of key congressional races to the bans on gay marriage that were adopted by Michigan and 10 other states, the election is being chalked up as a referendum on morality.

But the tone too often sounded like a contest to be "holier than thou."

It's not enough to be the good government candidate anymore; you have to be the one with a direct line to God.

Some will argue that the Founding Fathers never intended the United States to be completely secular, that God is deliberately mentioned in the Declaration of Independence and that the 10 Commandments are the basis of U.S. laws. But those who created this great nation also were wise enough to know that politics and religion could be a toxic combination, as they had been in other countries. That's why, in the very first amendment to the Constitution, the founders said that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

Back when John F. Kennedy was running for president, people questioned whether his Catholicism would bleed into his governance of the country. Nowadays, it seems politicians are punished if they are not evangelical enough.

As the United States wages war against religious extremism around the world, the rise in self-proclaimed piety at home is discouraging.

 

[Joeychgo]

Back when John F. Kennedy was running for president, people questioned whether his Catholicism would bleed into his governance of the country. Nowadays, it seems politicians are punished if they are not evangelical enough.

As the United States wages war against religious extremism around the world, the rise in self-proclaimed piety at home is discouraging.

:iconcur:

 

[Kbob]

IMO, this article is just sour grapes. A minority in this country is bemoaning the fact that their candidate lost. Now they're looking for answers as to why. If anything, Christianity and religion in general is on the decline here in the U.S. and has been for decades. Suddenly it's wrong to be a Christian involved in politics? That to me is nothing but intimidation. If this kind of campaign were waged against racial minorities instead of religious minorities, there would be cries of "disenfranchisement" and discrimination.

 

[Joeychgo]

IMO, this article is just sour grapes. A minority in this country is bemoaning the fact that their candidate lost. Now they're looking for answers as to why. If anything, Christianity and religion in general is on the decline here in the U.S. and has been for decades. Suddenly it's wrong to be a Christian involved in politics? That to me is nothing but intimidation. If this kind of campaign were waged against racial minorities instead of religious minorities, there would be cries of "disenfranchisement" and discrimination.

No, I think what he's saying is that its ok to be a Christian involved in politics -- just dont mention it in regard to the politics. I dont want to know about how much or what a candidate believes, or where he draws his beliefs from.

 

[Kbob]

No, I think what he's saying is that its ok to be a Christian involved in politics -- just dont mention it in regard to the politics. I dont want to know about how much or what a candidate believes, or where he draws his beliefs from.

So what is a Christian political figure supposed to do when asked about their beliefs? It's like telling an African American not to mention anything about being an African American in a political sense.

 

[MonsterMark]

.

What is your opinion Barry?

 

[barry2952]

No, not any more.

 

[MonsterMark]

???????? Ok. If you say so.

 

[raVeneyes]

If anything, Christianity and religion in general is on the decline here in the U.S. and has been for decades. Suddenly it's wrong to be a Christian involved in politics? That to me is nothing but intimidation. If this kind of campaign were waged against racial minorities instead of religious minorities, there would be cries of "disenfranchisement" and discrimination.

Respectfully, you sir, are not familliar with the facts or are spinning them for your own agenda.

Chrisianity and all religions have been enjoying a radical upswing in the last decade that social scientists have yet to be able to explain.

It is not, nor has it ever been, wrong to be a christian involved in politics. It *is* wrong to take your christian beliefs as a politician and inflict them on others. This is not intimidation, this is a founding principal of our country.

Christianity is the majority in the US. Sure world wide the biggest religion is islam, but that's because it is the state mandated religion of several countries.

The religious minority in this country...the people who are non-religious, or those who believe in earth religions...are very disenfrancised and discriminated against by this election. Most of the religious minority believe in equality for all people, rich or poor, gay or straight, and most of the religious minority don't see gayness as a sin.

 

[Kbob]

Respectfully, you sir, are not familliar with the facts or are spinning them for your own agenda.

Chrisianity and all religions have been enjoying a radical upswing in the last decade that social scientists have yet to be able to explain.

I am not, nor have I ever been involved with any religious political organization. As for spin, I'm very curious to see the proof of your claims about a "radical upswing".

It is not, nor has it ever been, wrong to be a christian involved in politics. It *is* wrong to take your christian beliefs as a politician and inflict them on others. This is not intimidation, this is a founding principal of our country.

"Christian beliefs" and the law peacefully co-exist in almost all cases.

Christianity is the majority in the US. Sure world wide the biggest religion is islam, but that's because it is the state mandated religion of several countries.

I believe you are in error. Christianity is the largest religion in the world in it's various denominations and sects.

The religious minority in this country...the people who are non-religious, or those who believe in earth religions...are very disenfrancised and discriminated against by this election. Most of the religious minority believe in equality for all people, rich or poor, gay or straight, and most of the religious minority don't see gayness as a sin.

Homosexuality is not a crime.

 

[Katshot]

I'm very angered by stories in the news about towns banning the Ten Commandments from their public buildings and similar acts throughout the country. People claiming to be pushing the issue because of the "seperation of church and state" as outlined in the Constitution. What a bunch of crap! NOWHERE, I repeat, NOWHERE in the US Constitution does the phrase "seperation of church and state" appear. As was pointed out here, the Constitution DOES mention that (in lay-mens terms) the Government will not directly support any particular religion, or restrict anyone from practicing their religion here. Our founding fathers understood the value of God in our everyday lives. The word "God" appears throughout our history, and on our money. Removing the Ten Commandments from government buildings, and similar acts are only a testiment to just how low politicians will stoop to cater to various groups of people.
This is America. We believe in God, just like our money says. Just like those many plaques, and statues say on our buildings. If you don't like it, you may LEAVE!

 

[raVeneyes]

I am not, nor have I ever been involved with any religious political organization. As for spin, I'm very curious to see the proof of your claims about a "radical upswing".

Ok, so you're not spinning it for your own agenda, but it has been well reported that religion has enjoyed a large upswing in membership and new followers in the last few years. I am unable to locate any specific source for you, but it was a topic in the news as recently as last year.

"Christian beliefs" and the law peacefully co-exist in almost all cases.

I wasn't saying they don't often sound very simmilar, or that they can't co-exsist, I'm just refuting your assertion that: "Suddenly it's wrong to be a Christian involved in politics". There's nothing sudden about it...nor is that the crime. The problem is inflicting religious beliefs on others.

I believe you are in error. Christianity is the largest religion in the world in it's various denominations and sects.

I stand corrected...this year the world almanac reports that Christianity leads Islam by approximately 800 million believers. These numbers have been in contention many times before, as they are now because both christian and islamic groups tend to inflate thier numbers to gain a benifit in this particular area.

Homosexuality is not a crime.

Not *yet*, but if republicans in congress and the executive branch take thier 'mandate' to it's logical conclusion then they will soon try to make laws against homosexuality. I hope that day never arrives, but since voters in eleven states have overwhelmingly voted to make homosexual marriage illegal, it seems that day is here.

 

[raVeneyes]

I'm very angered by stories in the news about towns banning the Ten Commandments from their public buildings and similar acts throughout the country. People claiming to be pushing the issue because of the "seperation of church and state" as outlined in the Constitution. What a bunch of crap! NOWHERE, I repeat, NOWHERE in the US Constitution does the phrase "seperation of church and state" appear.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" is the phrase exactly in the first amendment...however this is the federal constitution, and many state or township constitutions do contain the phrase 'seperation of church and state' and other more specific laws against co-mingling any sort of religion and law.

 

[Kbob]

Ok, so you're not spinning it for your own agenda, but it has been well reported that religion has enjoyed a large upswing in membership and new followers in the last few years. I am unable to locate any specific source for you, but it was a topic in the news as recently as last year.

I appreciate the bone. :Beer I am admittedly actively involved in my church, though. And as a man who is actively involved in the church "scene" I can tell you from experience that this alleged "upswing" in membership is most likely due to people moving their membership from one church or denomination to the next without removing their membership in their previous church. After 9/11 there was an increase in church attendance, but that is waning. Membership #'s are really meaningless. It's the attendance #'s that count.

I wasn't saying they don't often sound very simmilar, or that they can't co-exsist, I'm just refuting your assertion that: "Suddenly it's wrong to be a Christian involved in politics". There's nothing sudden about it...nor is that the crime. The problem is inflicting religious beliefs on others.

If you're referring to abortion and/or stem-cell research, I believe these are both issues that are more than just religious beliefs. Taking God out of govt. institutions (prayer, the word "God", etc.) is also an issue that I believe is not in step with the Constitution or the spirit of the framers of our government. I realize you disagree. IMO there needs to be far more studies and comprehensive information on homosexuality before there is any kind of law imposed movement pro or con in that regard. Personally I don't have a problem with homosexuals, I just don't like it getting shoved down my throat (sound familiar?).

Not *yet*, but if republicans in congress and the executive branch take thier 'mandate' to it's logical conclusion then they will soon try to make laws against homosexuality. I hope that day never arrives, but since voters in eleven states have overwhelmingly voted to make homosexual marriage illegal, it seems that day is here.

I understand your concern and I realize that whatever I say will in no way relieve any of your fears, but I just don't see the U.S. doing that. Puritanical regimes in the name of whatever religion is dangerous as has been proven currently and historically.

I think we all need to compromise a little for the good of our country.