BIG N2O problem Please help me

VanDarela

VanDarela

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For those of you who don't know and maybe able to help me and for those of you who do know... I have an 05 LS V8 w/ a Zex nitrous system 50-100 wet shot, WBC (The WBC is only being used to shut off the N2O passed 12.1, I will not be using a window switch to engage at a certain RPM, i will be doing it by feel of the peddle), XCal, and minor mods, Everything is hooked up and spraying...But for some reason it engages the N20 at 1/4 throttle (which is like 2000RPM) instead of WOT.. I set the management box on the ZEX over again like 3 times to engage at WOT and it sets up like it should, i did it exactly the way it says to, but still it does it at 1/4 throttle. I called ZEX and they were the ones to tell me to set the management box again. I called WBC and they set me up to turn off at 12.1... I've run out of people to call so I need any help i can get, please.... This message is going to all the forums including the guy who installed the system. Is ther anything else i would need to buy to be able to get WOT?....anything will help at this point...thanks guys!!
 
I know this is a old thread but did this guy have a full throttle problem becasue of ETC or fly/drive by wire?
 
he never did answer that thread.

ended up with a bad vacuum leak - took it to a shop where they dropped a washer down into a cylinder - and then tried to fire up the engine.

ended up needing a new piston - which the shop replaced after months of messing with it. I believe he pulled the N2O and returned to stock.
 
but why was the nitrous turning on at 2000 RPM.... and not at full throttle??
 
right - like I said he never confirmed the issue (there was a lot of talk outside the forum) - but he has an 05 which uses the throttle-by-wire. So the Zex tech group figured that the PCM was signalling the throttle to open full (at least by voltage which the WBC uses) even though his pedal was only 1/4 down. They felt that is had to do with the speed of his foot movement.
 
oh i see



So no one is running N20 on a gen2?? I want to get this answered...
 
of course you can run N2O on a Gen2.

IB ILLS ran ran it on his from a year before the turbo.
 
yea but what i'm wondering is that the ETC doesn't go full throttle when you put it to the floor... it goes but in sections... slowly opening so it doesn't make high emissions... what im wondering is how do you get the ETC to communicate with the Nitrous kit???
 
no - don't let this thread spook you. remember - many new models use the throttle-by-wire and N2O has been added to them as well.

the wiring really depends on the kit your are planning to use - if you are using a WOT trigger, and rpm windowing switch.
 
it's not spooking me at all... i have already seen this done... just wondering how everyone is monitoring throttle position for activation... I just want to be save and know all i can know about this stuff....


The more i think about it... if your not spraying till 3000 RPM it "should" be full throttle by then...
 
you simply tap the tps wiring - just like gen1 - the tps is the only reliable method of knowing your throttle plate is wide-open.

if you tie that into a rpm window switch - to ensure you are at both open throttle and higher rpms (engine breathing well) you are set. depending on how big of a shot you want to run - you have to consider a progressive controller to bring the extra power on slowly - to hold traction.

You also have to consider colder plugs, upgraded fuel, ...etc

I ran 100shot NX system, other have hit with a 125shot.
 
N2O switching and trans concerns

And I briefly used 150 on my '02. I haven't done 'hands on' with drive by wire, but have experience with wet kits by Zex, NOS and NX. If I were having trouble with a TPS-triggered turn-on, I'd instead use a micro switch hooked to the throttle body. I've had excellent experience with NOS and NX systems so triggered.

If you don't have your trans re-worked, you should know that there's potential difficulty. The 5R55 trans uses a first, first overdrive, third approach to shifting. With factory insides, it's safest to turn on the N2O after your shift to third. The intermediate shift requires exact timing to let off one servo instantaneously while applying the other. If the timing isn't just right, you have the two gears engaged at once. Something's gotta give. With stronger parts and a perfect tune, all's well.

Hope some of this helps!
KS
 
how do you use the TPS on the throttle by wire sense the TPS reads higher voltage at closed and low at wide open sense the computer is contoling the stepper motor for the Throttle by wire closed low voltage and open higher voltage
 
lincoln00 said:
how do you use the TPS on the throttle by wire sense the TPS reads higher voltage at closed and low at wide open sense the computer is contoling the stepper motor for the Throttle by wire closed low voltage and open higher voltage
Click to expand...

even with the throttle-by-wire - there is still a TPS - just like non-throttle-by-wire LSes. The TPS tells the car where the throttleplate
 
sure - but just because the pedal is down does not mean the throttle plateis open... thanks to the throttle-by-wire control the PCM has
 
All that Quik has said is pretty much correct.

The Gen2 LS V8's, while being TBW, have a totally separate TPS that is not connected to the TBW stepper motor. The TPS is on the passenger side of the TB. There are multiple wires that you can tie into to get your TPS WOT signal. You will either look for a rising voltage signal when the TB is being opened or you will look for a falling voltage one. Most go with the rising voltage wire because most TPS WOT switches for nitrous are configured for rising voltage from the factory. In my case, since I ran a progressive controller which had the option of either utilizing a rising or falling voltage signal from the TPS I tapped into the falling voltage wire. There was no other reason for my doing this other than it was the first wire I probed that gave me a variable voltage reading when the gas pedal was pushed.

I forget which wire will give you the rising voltage signal but it is pretty easy to determine. Just get a voltmeter and with the car off but the key in the run position have a friend slowly depress the gas pedal all the way on and all the way off. Set the voltmeter to read voltage and as they are doing that you can stick the red (+) probe into the back of the connector where one of the wires goes into the TPS. Then stick the black (-) probe to a good ground source either on the engine or chassis. You should see 4 different readings depending on which wire you are on. One will be a constant 5volts, one will see rising voltage when TB is opened, one will see falling voltage when TB is opened, and the last one is a ground.

Vandarela's problem seems like it stemmed from improper configuration of his Zex system. The Zex is unique in that it "learns" what the rising WOT voltage is from the TPS. There is a process that has to be done once the zex box is hooked up that accomplishes this. I have heard that some people have messed it up in the past even though when I have installed Zex systems onto vehicles I have found them pretty easy to configure overall.

Lincoln00, in reply to your second post in this thread talking about "why was the nitrous turning on at 2000 rpm and not WOT?"'

The engine RPM and the throttle position are two totally separate things. For a properly configured nitrous system to work there has to be three things going on at the same time. First is the the master arm switch has to be flipped on. Second is the TB must be at WOT. Third is that the engine rpm must be in the range (window) that the window switch (or progressive controller) is set for. If I have a win switch with a 3,000rpm start pill and a 6,500rpm stop pill in it then my nitrous will only activate when I first have armed it, the TB is at WOT and only while the engine is spinning between those rpms. That is why it is so crucial to have BOTH a TPS WOT switch and a RPM window switch. Otherwise if I just had a TPS WOT switch but no window switch I could launch from a stoplight and once I hit WOT (virtually right away) then I would be spraying. That would put WAY too much stress on the engine and tranny in this particular car. Now if I only had a RPM window switch but no TPS WOT switch then I would run into the situation where I would launch at WOT and the car would wait and then spray once it got to the right RPM. While that small portion is fine and dandy the sh1tty part of the deal is that when you let off of the gas and are still between those two RPM ranges you are still spraying even though the TB has closed. That is a VERY bad thing and will likely cause a big backfire into the intake the moment the TB is opened again.

At a bare minimum to have a safe operating nitrous system a person needs both a WOT TPS switch and a RPM window switch as well. You don't need all the fancy progressive controller stuff like I ran but it sure is nice to have those extra options if you are savvy for them.

Cammerfe, in response to your second and third posts... Attaching a microswitch under the gas pedal is a totally fine thing to do with a TB that actually has a throttle cable running to it. Gen1 LS's are set here. The reason why you should never do that with a Gen2 LS, or any other TBW vehicle, is that while your foot may be at "wot" the TB blade itself probably isn't just yet. So if I had a microswitch attached to the gas pedal of a TBW Gen2 LS then I could start spraying before the TB blade is fully open, which as most know is a bad thing.

The cliffnotes:

Throttle cable car (Gen 1 LS) = gas pedal WOT microswitch is ok, or TB mounted microswitch is ok, TPS wired switch ok too.

TBW car (Gen 2 LS) = DO NOT use gas pedal WOT microswitch, only use TPS wired in switch.

I hope this helped clear up any confusion that may have been occurring.
 
thanks ILLS i Finally understand... you make me feel some much more confident on running nitrous on my lincoln
 
Am I understanding you properly that your foot can react faster than the DBW system? My understanding of the function is that the throttle pedal is essentially a rheostat---controlling a stepper motor that moves the throttle blade. Is this not correct? Thanks for the info!!!
KS
 
yes that is correct... but the PCM controls the throttle opening to make the best mpg and Emission... so foot to floor doesn't mean wide open throttle right a way.. it will open but when it wants to
 
Time period to react? IE---hundredths of a second; ten seconds?

I've not had to contend with this specific set of parts, but since I use a throttle micro switch, and actually 'squirt', only in 3rd gear---by flipping the power switch---I'm doing the same thing, for all practical purposes. This process works just fine, although, since I also spray only when my disc player is running Booker T doing 'Green Onions', I have to start by reaching for the disc player control. :) :)
KS
 
cammerfe said:
Time period to react? IE---hundredths of a second; ten seconds?

I've not had to contend with this specific set of parts, but since I use a throttle micro switch, and actually 'squirt', only in 3rd gear---by flipping the power switch---I'm doing the same thing, for all practical purposes. This process works just fine, although, since I also spray only when my disc player is running Booker T doing 'Green Onions', I have to start by reaching for the disc player control. :) :)
KS
Click to expand...




It has less to do with reaction time of the computer and more to do with the way the torque calculations work in the TBW programming. Also since TC utilizes TBW to regulate traction too the microswitch under the pedal can cause problems because say you are spraying and forget to turn TC off then when you loose traction the TB will cut angle to allow traction regain and while your foot is still planted to the floor.
 
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