Bin Laden....more change we can believe in

MonsterMark

Dedicated LVC Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2004
Messages
9,225
Reaction score
3
Location
United States
Remember when Obama said killing Bin Laden would be a top priority? I mean, Obama said he was going to pull troops out of Iraq and put them into Afganistan in order to get Bin Laden. Heck, he would even bomb Pakistan to get at him.

Oh my, how things change...

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/01/...-its-not-that-important-to-capture-bin-laden/

COURIC: How important do you think it is, Mr. President-elect, to apprehend Osama bin Laden?

OBAMA: I think that we have to so weaken his infrastructure that, whether he is technically alive or not, he is so pinned down that he cannot function. My preference obviously would be to capture or kill him. But if we have so tightened the noose that he’s in a cave somewhere and can’t even communicate with his operatives then we will meet our goal of protecting America.
 
The Bush cabinet "marginalized" him long ago; I also believe Bush said "I don't know where he is; I'm not worried about him".

So why the outrage over Obama basically saying 'I'd like him captured or killed, but I'll accept him being rendered harmless/useless'?

When did he say he'd "bomb Pakistan"? I believe he said something along the lines of 'if we have reliable intel on him and the Pakistan government can't or won't act, we should.'
 
I think it was more showing the double standard on the left and in the MSM. They attack Bush for "conducting an illegal war" (Iraq), while Bin Laden is still "at large".
 
I think it was more showing the double standard on the left and in the MSM. They attack Bush for "conducting an illegal war" (Iraq), while Bin Laden is still "at large".

Where is the double standard, when Obama wasn't saying he'd declare war on Pakistan? Just that he'd like to get Osama, just as McCain repeatedly said he'd like to get Osama, during the elections.
 
Well, I am not so concerned about the Pakistan part, but the "marginalizing" of Bin Laden was not enough for critics of Bush. They expected him to capture of kill Bin Laden, and not doing so was (according to the talking point) because of the "distraction" of the Iraq War.

However, now Obama is saying the same thing as Bush did about Bin Laden and, apparently, he is getting a pass from the left and the MSM because they seem to be lowering standards for him.

Basically, when Bush said something to the effect of Bin Laden being "marginalized" or otherwise out of power enough to be basically a non-threat at this point, it wasn't enough for his critics. They demanded that he be dead or capture. But now that Obama says it, so far none of those same people who critiqued Bush are saying anything about Obama being held to that same standard (and likely won't).

In other words, it was a disengenuous talking point of the left to smear Bush by moving the goalposts all along.

As to the "Bomb Pakistan" thing; here is what I have found...

This article reports that he claimed that, "as president he would consider military strikes against terrorists in Pakistan if the country refused to root them out." Here is the Obama quote that was drawn from;
If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won’t act, we will.

In this transcript from The Democratic Debate in New Hampshire, Obama said:
...if they [Pakistan] could not or would not do so, and we had actionable intelligence, then I would strike.

Here is the part of the prepared remarks that seemed to start all of this.
I understand that President Musharraf has his own challenges. But let me make this clear. There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again. It was a terrible mistake to fail to act when we had a chance to take out an al Qaeda leadership meeting in 2005. If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won’t act, we will…

So he never directly said he would "bomb" Pakistan (as far as I can find), but he said he would "strike" or "act", presumably meaning militarily. It is highly doubtful that any strike would not include bombing. And there is the concern voiced by the left in regards to Iraq that would apply here; that it could, in the long run, strengthen Al Queda by pushing the moderate majority in Pakistan to radicalism and terrorism.

There are a lot of parallels in this statement to what Bush actually did in Iraq. The biggest difference is that Iraq was not our ally when we went it (Pakistan would be), Iraq was actively supporting terrorism whereas Pakistan is not and in Iraq, we were looking to overthrow the government, whereas in Pakistan we would not be, according to this statement.

Basically, Obama supporters reaction to both the Pakistan comment and the Bin Laden being "marginalized" comment show the hypocritical and dishonest double standard they hold Bush to as opposed to their "Messiah".
 
Where is the double standard, when Obama wasn't saying he'd declare war on Pakistan? Just that he'd like to get Osama, just as McCain repeatedly said he'd like to get Osama, during the elections.

Don't let facts get in the way...


NASHVILLE, Tennessee (CNN) – "We will kill Bin Laden, we will crush al-Qaeda," Barack Obama said Tuesday as he faced John McCain in their second head-to-head presidential debate.

===================================================================================
Obama said if elected in November 2008 he would be willing to attack inside Pakistan with or without approval from the Pakistani government, a move that would likely cause anxiety in the already troubled region.

"If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will," Obama said.
 
Edit: Nevermind.

Just let us know when all the stupid things Obama is doing finally gets to you.

Embarrassing Cabinet picks
The upcoming draft
Stealing your money
Appeasing our enemies.

It's OK. I'll be here to comfort you.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
All I know is our country has not been attacked since that day we'll never forget
Say what you want about some of the issues with W's admin.
When it comes to National Security they got that right!!!

Homeland Security is a significant reason why it is harder for terrorists to hide and safely operate among us. So many terrorist cells have been shut down or their operations so significantly disrupted, that much of what we've heard of has been about busts of these people in advance of their planned attacks.

The lefties will have you worried about wiretaps and and illegal search; like they're listening in on our boring ass conversations with our wives asking what to make for dinner... So, Yeah... lets waste weeks getting that warrant to investigate a terror cell that moves 3 times in a month and changes wireless numbers constantly. Remember, those of us that live normal lives have the same ole numbers, equipment and such for years... Immediately OFF the target list... And again; this is the day and age we live in... Honestly, with the technology available today; My neighbor, if he so wishes could intercept my wireless phone signals and nobody would know.

There also have been huge drug busts; which are very much associated with funneling money to terrorist organizations. Since 9-11 hundreds of millions of dollars in terrorist assets have been frozen, halting action by these people. Border security has improved 10 fold, not just around our nation but ALL corners of the world!

We'll see what this group of liberal weenies do with a brand new organization (DHS) that they have inherited and have never been in charge of. I know they built a campaign on change, Lets hope for the safety of our nation, they don't decide to change the stuff that is already working.

There are many arguments made about how the past 5 years or so, we took our eye off the economy and focused resources in these other areas. That may be true; but don't tell me this admin was running Lehman Brothers too? Or Bank of America for that matter who is asking for Billions in bail out cash. Lets see how Pres-Elec handles that one... Since BOA have been the biggest outsourcing company in our nation... Thought the $$ was to go only to those that keep jobs in America... Yeah... we'll see... I give it till Mid summer before the WTF's start getting tossed around.

Oh well... Thought I drop by and say Happy 2009 to y'all...

Peace,

JC
 
All I know is all this crap started to happen as soon as Obama was favored to win the Presidency. So go figure.

JC, how's that caddie treating ya?
 
In other words, it was a disengenuous talking point of the left to smear Bush by moving the goalposts all along.

the left never moved the goal posts, the right kept moving them back. some quotes from the ol' cowboy

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
- G.W. Bush, 9/13/01

"I want justice...There's an old poster out West, as I recall, that said, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive,'"
- G.W. Bush, 9/17/01, UPI

"...Secondly, he is not escaping us. This is a guy, who, three months ago, was in control of a county [sic]. Now he's maybe in control of a cave. He's on the run. Listen, a while ago I said to the American people, our objective is more than bin Laden. But one of the things for certain is we're going to get him running and keep him running, and bring him to justice. And that's what's happening. He's on the run, if he's running at all. So we don't know whether he's in cave with the door shut, or a cave with the door open -- we just don't know...."

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

"I am truly not that concerned about him."
- G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden's whereabouts,
3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02)



so in 6 months, he went from the most important thing to don't know, don't care. there was no "smearing" from the left, the right did it themselves. and this was before the "iraq distraction"
 
the left never moved the goal posts, the right kept moving them back. some quotes from the ol' cowboy

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
- G.W. Bush, 9/13/01

"I want justice...There's an old poster out West, as I recall, that said, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive,'"
- G.W. Bush, 9/17/01, UPI

"...Secondly, he is not escaping us. This is a guy, who, three months ago, was in control of a county [sic]. Now he's maybe in control of a cave. He's on the run. Listen, a while ago I said to the American people, our objective is more than bin Laden. But one of the things for certain is we're going to get him running and keep him running, and bring him to justice. And that's what's happening. He's on the run, if he's running at all. So we don't know whether he's in cave with the door shut, or a cave with the door open -- we just don't know...."

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

"I am truly not that concerned about him."
- G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden's whereabouts,
3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02)



so in 6 months, he went from the most important thing to don't know, don't care. there was no "smearing" from the left, the right did it themselves. and this was before the "iraq distraction"

The start of that six month period was 2 days after 9/11. and in that six month period, U.S. efforts had essentially marginalized him so the situation had changed, warranting a re-evaluation of priorities concerning him.

It was not "moving the goalposts" so much as resetting priorities based on current intel and the "situation on the ground". bin Laden himself had been marginalized as a threat, while Al Queda was still a threat. On 9/13/01, the threat of Bin Laden and Al Queda were one in the same.

Standards like that can change and not be dishonest or fallacious if there is a logical and reasonable justification for the change, like the situation changing.

There was never any change in status in regards to Bin Laden to justify Obama's apparent change in position.

And, even if Bush is moving the goalposts, that doesn't prove that his critics aren't as well, and that the talking point is not disengenuous on their part.

The tallking point I was talking about was in regards to Iraq. As you point out, what you talked about is before Iraq. The talking point didn't start until after we went in to Iraq. By that point, the government and the public had changed their expectations with regards to Bin Laden and his capture. the bigger priority was defending against further terrorist attacks and destroying Al Queda.

So, by the time the talking point against Iraq came about, it was obviously an opportunistic, disengenuous talking point. The lack of holding Obama to the same standard only confirms that.

Basically, there was a logical reasons for the lowering of the standard in Bush's case, and it happened before the Iraq War. There was no logical justification for the raising of the standard on the part of Bush's critics (except as a dishonest tool to smear him) and it was created after the Iraq War had started.
 
Well, I am not so concerned about the Pakistan part, but the "marginalizing" of Bin Laden was not enough for critics of Bush. They expected him to capture of kill Bin Laden, and not doing so was (according to the talking point) because of the "distraction" of the Iraq War.
Basically, there was a logical reasons for the lowering of the standard in Bush's case, and it happened before the Iraq War. There was no logical justification for the raising of the standard on the part of Bush's critics (except as a dishonest tool to smear him) and it was created after the Iraq War had started.

That doesn't follow, you claimed the Left smeared Bush by claiming he couldn't capture/kill Osama because of "distractions" of an "illegal war", yet Bush had dismissed Osama as a threat before the war.
 
All I know is all this crap started to happen as soon as Obama was favored to win the Presidency. So go figure.

JC, how's that caddie treating ya?

Caddie is going strong... My lovely wife took out an 8 pointer with it Friday before Thanksgiving; She was cruisin around 35 mph on a back road next to a Christmas tree farm, on the way to her Mom's listening to Christmas tunes, and BAM - thing came out of nowhere. So, it got a brand new front end!!

FACT:
Poor design on those Caddie's, just about anything that you hit in the front will take out your Radiator due to the positioning of the brace bars for the grill. Over $5K worth of damage.


Hope all is well with you Bryan
 
That doesn't follow, you claimed the Left smeared Bush by claiming he couldn't capture/kill Osama because of "distractions" of an "illegal war", yet Bush had dismissed Osama as a threat before the war.

i was trying to figure out that circle too.
i think it's a double standard of their lost messiah.
 

Members online

No members online now.
Back
Top