"Brutality That Boomerangs"

97silverlsc

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Brutality That Boomerangs
Saree Makdisi, LA Times
Posted 2005-08-03 11:37:00.0

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0729-26.htm

I am angered and sickened by the bombings here in London on July 7, but I am equally angered by the unthinking reactions in the United States and Britain to those disgusting attacks."

The usual self-congratulatory contrast between "our" civilization and "their" barbarism has set the stage for a cycle of moralistic inquiries into the motivations of suicide bombers and the supposed duty of "good" Muslims to restrain "bad" ones.

Few have noticed that suicide bombing is merely a tactic used by those who lack other means of delivering explosives. Fewer still seem to notice that what happened in London is what occurs every time a U.S. or British warplane unloads its bombs on an Iraqi village.

But, you may say, our forces don't deliberately target civilians. Perhaps not. But they have consistently shown themselves to be indifferent to the civilian casualties produced by their operations.

"Collateral damage" is the inevitable result of choosing to go to war. By making the choice to go to war in Iraq, we made the choice to kill tens of thousands of civilians. It does not matter to bereaved parents whether their child was killed deliberately, as the result of a utilitarian calculation of "the greater good," or of the callous indifference of officials from a distant power.

American and British media have devoted hours to wondering what would drive a seemingly normal young Muslim to destroy himself and others. No one has paused to ask what would cause a seemingly normal young Christian or Jew to strap himself into a warplane and drop bombs on a village, knowing full well his bombs will inevitably kill civilians (and, of course, soldiers).

Because "our" way of killing is dressed up in smart uniforms and shiny weapons and cloaked in the language of grand causes, we place it on a different moral plane than "theirs."

I read an article about a Marine sniper who was given a medal at a California ceremony for having shot dead 32 Iraqis during the battle for Fallouja last year — young men who were defending their city from an invading army. A nod to their deaths was made by the sniper and a chaplain, but these are the sentiments that struck me:

"He didn't kill 32 people," said a sergeant major. "He saved numerous lives…. That's how Marines look at it." And his mother said, "It's difficult. You send off your little boy and he comes back a man who has protected everyone."

Clearly, "our" lives are all that matter and "their" lives literally don't count.

And are we really expected to believe that such brutal indifference to other people's lives has nothing to do with what happened in London three weeks ago?

"It is by distortedly exalting some men, that others are distortedly debased," the Anglo American revolutionary Thomas Paine warned two centuries ago. As a result, he added, "a vast mass of humankind are degradedly thrown into the background of the human picture." His point was that if people are treated inhumanly, they will cease to act humanly.

Our governments dismiss out of hand any connection between the London bombings and the war in Iraq. Such attacks, they say, predate 2003. But Iraq was first invaded in 1991, not 2003. Then a decade of sanctions against that country killed a million Iraqis, including 500,000 children. Over the same period, unwavering support for Israel has resulted in the deaths of thousands of innocent Palestinians and the total paralysis of an entire people. Tens of thousands have been slaughtered by U.S. and British forces in Afghanistan and Iraq since 2001.

At no point has peaceful protest, persuasion, demonstration, negotiation or remonstration made so much as a dent in the single-minded U.S. and British policy. If all legitimate forms of dissent go unheeded, illegitimate forms will be turned to instead. Some will resort to violence, which does not produce the desired result but may, by way of unthinking reaction, give vent to the inhumanity with which they have been treated for so long. Paine was right: People who are treated brutally will finally turn into brutes.

This is not a war between "civilization" and "barbarism" but a war between one form of zealotry and another, one form of ignorance and another, one form of barbarism and another. More of the same, underwritten by ignorance, will not yield solutions. The time has come to be human, and — motivated by sympathy, actuated by reason — to think and act as human beings, not unthinking brutes.

Saree Makdisi, a professor of English literature at UCLA, is teaching in London for the summer.
 
Just because someone syas something, dones't make it true. You guys keep posting editorials expecting something out of them. They are the writers, and I use that term loosely, opinions. Nothing more. And of course it's all BS too, so yeah.
 
That article is an out-and-out LIE. In Iraq we went to such great pains to avoid civilian casualties that many soldiers died as a result. Our smart bombs were specifically targeted and contained. We acted with TREMENDOUS restraint during the conflict. We still have soldiers in danger b/c we won't just shoot any hooded person driving a truck.

That is absolutely ridiculous and I'm actually offended that you had the unmitigated gall to post such traitorous remarks. THAT'S what's sickening.

:Bang :thread:
 
97silverlsc said:
Saree Makdisi, a professor of English literature at UCLA, is teaching in London for the summer.
Guys...no big deal. It just goes to show that we not only have to fight the enemy abroad, we also have to fight the ones in our midst.

No nation has ever shown more compassion during an armed conflict as the good ol United States.
 
The mere notion that these attacks are put upon us by our reaction to actions that were iniated by the terrorist is pure madness. But is typical of a terrorist sympathizing socialist always seek attention using outrageous nonsense in the example above.

¿I am even more perplexed by the fact that person would willing waste their time to transport this rehtoic to here or anywhere else?
 
97silverlsc said:
The usual self-congratulatory contrast between "our" civilization and "their" barbarism has set the stage for a cycle of moralistic inquiries into the motivations of suicide bombers and the supposed duty of "good" Muslims to restrain "bad" ones.
I don't have a problem getting into a moral conflict. Killing innocent people as a tactic is wrong. We don't do that.

97silverlsc said:
Few have noticed that suicide bombing is merely a tactic used by those who lack other means of delivering explosives. Fewer still seem to notice that what happened in London is what occurs every time a U.S. or British warplane unloads its bombs on an Iraqi village.
I've noticed. But again, the suicide bombers are killing themselves in vain. And I vehemently disagree with the premise that our forces are carpet bombing villages willy-nilly.

97silverlsc said:
But, you may say, our forces don't deliberately target civilians. Perhaps not. But they have consistently shown themselves to be indifferent to the civilian casualties produced by their operations.
"Perhaps"? And this is supposed to be an objective article? Perhaps this professor should be fired for making an inflammatory, unfounded, false accusation. And we're no more indifferent to civilian casualties in Iraq than in any other war. This lady doesn't know what she's talking about. It's like she has no concept of history.

97silverlsc said:
"Collateral damage" is the inevitable result of choosing to go to war. By making the choice to go to war in Iraq, we made the choice to kill tens of thousands of civilians. It does not matter to bereaved parents whether their child was killed deliberately, as the result of a utilitarian calculation of "the greater good," or of the callous indifference of officials from a distant power.
The claim that tens of thousands of civilians have been killed by our forces is a total fabrication. Maybe several thousand, but the bulk of civilian deaths have been a result of the enemy, not us. That number is another exaggeration/lie.

97silverlsc said:
American and British media have devoted hours to wondering what would drive a seemingly normal young Muslim to destroy himself and others. No one has paused to ask what would cause a seemingly normal young Christian or Jew to strap himself into a warplane and drop bombs on a village, knowing full well his bombs will inevitably kill civilians (and, of course, soldiers).
This is a pacifist editorial. The author is dreaming of an alternate reality where there are no evil people that want to kill/subdue other people.

97silverlsc said:
Clearly, "our" lives are all that matter and "their" lives literally don't count..
Clearly this lady doesn't know how to connect the dots. She goes from A to Q instead of B.
97silverlsc said:
"It is by distortedly exalting some men, that others are distortedly debased," the Anglo American revolutionary Thomas Paine warned two centuries ago. As a result, he added, "a vast mass of humankind are degradedly thrown into the background of the human picture." His point was that if people are treated inhumanly, they will cease to act humanly.
And we are fighting those that are degrading their fellow humans and distortedly exalting others (Saddam, Osama, et al).
97silverlsc said:
Some will resort to violence, which does not produce the desired result but may, by way of unthinking reaction, give vent to the inhumanity with which they have been treated for so long. Paine was right: People who are treated brutally will finally turn into brutes.
How have we treated them inhumanely for so long? That's how they treat themselves. Don't blame us for their oppression.

97silverlsc said:
This is not a war between "civilization" and "barbarism" but a war between one form of zealotry and another, one form of ignorance and another, one form of barbarism and another. More of the same, underwritten by ignorance, will not yield solutions. The time has come to be human, and — motivated by sympathy, actuated by reason — to think and act as human beings, not unthinking brutes.
We are acting and thinking like human beings. The logic that this author uses can be turned back on her. Since the terrorists/suicide bombers do what they do, then naturally it is inevitable for them to fall by even more inhumane means. Not from us, but what comes around goes around.
 
MonsterMark said:
Guys...no big deal. It just goes to show that we not only have to fight the enemy abroad, we also have to fight the ones in our midst.

No nation has ever shown more compassion during an armed conflict as the good ol United States.

No, Bryan, this :q:q:q:q:q:q:q really pissed me off. We have soldiers dying b/c of our restraint and effort to protect civilians and they have the nerve to say the opposite?

I say F**k them and screw the civilians. We can't win public opinion anyway, so why try? Let's flatten all these mosques where Al Quesadilla is hiding and END this thing!

You should be banned for posting excrement like this.
 
97silverlsc said:
Our governments dismiss out of hand any connection between the London bombings and the war in Iraq. Such attacks, they say, predate 2003. But Iraq was first invaded in 1991, not 2003. Then a decade of sanctions against that country killed a million Iraqis, including 500,000 children. Over the same period, unwavering support for Israel has resulted in the deaths of thousands of innocent Palestinians and the total paralysis of an entire people. Tens of thousands have been slaughtered by U.S. and British forces in Afghanistan and Iraq since 2001.


Saree Makdisi, a professor of English literature at UCLA, is teaching in London for the summer.
Come on. Look at this guy. An English professor at UCLA. This is why they call the west coast the left coast. There are plenty of haters out there. I find it funny that he is not doing his style of hating in Iraq, or Syria, or Iran. He does in the US and in Britain, where he knows he is the safest. Kind of ironic. Wonder if he is a naturalized citizen?
 
I need to find this girl and beat her with a rubber hose and shove this article up her a**.

This article is disgusting in every way and I personally cannot believe that any person with an ounce of intelligence would even associate themselves with it.

"Hey everybody...the Nazi's were just being themselves...it's okay...let em kill all the Jews/homosexuals/gypsies. We have no right to meddle in their affairs..." :Bang
 
I forgot something.
97silverlsc said:
"Collateral damage" is the inevitable result of choosing to go to war. By making the choice to go to war in Iraq, we made the choice to kill tens of thousands of civilians.
Using this logic, by making the choice to fight fire in our society, we are choosing to send firemen to their deaths every year. Other professions that we "choose" to kill people in just by letting them do their job includes taxi drivers, cops, store clerks, construction workers, truck drivers, etc., etc. No one wants innocent people to die. But that shouldn't stop us from doing what is necessary. Otherwise we'd be immobilized by this in every aspect of our lives.

The degree to which innocent people are killed in war has dropped dramatically due to our strategy, tactics, and weaponry. And it continues to decrease. Too bad the terrorists don't share our value for human life.
 
OH, and just in case I wasn't clear...

If you raise arms against the United States of America...or the Free People of Iraq...YOUR LIFE IS WORTHLESS! Die like all scum should...and good riddance...
 
Kbob said:
I forgot something.Using this logic, by making the choice to fight fire in our society, we are choosing to send firemen to their deaths every year. Other professions that we "choose" to kill people in just by letting them do their job includes taxi drivers, cops, store clerks, construction workers, truck drivers, etc., etc. No one wants innocent people to die. But that shouldn't stop us from doing what is necessary. Otherwise we'd be immobilized by this in every aspect of our lives.

The degree to which innocent people are killed in war has dropped dramatically due to our strategy, tactics, and weaponry. And it continues to decrease. Too bad the terrorists don't share our value for human life.
:I

People who agree with this article better hope the brutes outside keeping them safe dont leave them defenseless whilst they cower in their closets avoiding reality. For then, what would they do?
 
FreeFaller said:
I need to find this girl and beat her with a rubber hose and shove this article up her a**.

This article is disgusting in every way and I personally cannot believe that any person with an ounce of intelligence would even associate themselves with it.

"Hey everybody...the Nazi's were just being themselves...it's okay...let em kill all the Jews/homosexuals/gypsies. We have no right to meddle in their affairs..." :Bang

Hear, hear!

:I

So far, no one with any intelligence HAS associated with the article.:N Phil!
 
Liberals are bent on building a risk averse America, one that is dependent upon a socialist construct to provide everything including the closet to hide in.
 
eL eS said:
Liberals are bent on building a risk averse America, one that is dependent upon a socialist construct to provide everything including the closet to hide in.

Equals a country they can control.
 

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