Carville poll: 55% of Americans think Obama is socialist

fossten

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"Deep in the poll, they ask, “Now, I am going to read you a list of words and phrases which people use to describe political figures. For each word or phrase, please tell me whether it describes Barack Obama very well, well, not too well, or not well at all.” …

When asked about “a socialist,” 33 percent of likely voters say it describes Obama “very well,” 22 percent say “well,” 15 percent say “not too well,” and 25 percent say “not well at all.”

In other words, 55 percent of likely voters think “socialist” is a reasonably accurate way of describing Obama."
 
The conservative-media spin-machine is performing well then; people thought only the Liberal-media was crafty at this. Kudos, he may only serve one term.

Still wouldn't bet on it though, least not today.
 
Imagine what his numbers would be if the media were actually doing its job instead of watching his back constantly.
 
The conservative-media spin-machine is performing well then; people thought only the Liberal-media was crafty at this. Kudos, he may only serve one term.

Still wouldn't bet on it though, least not today.

So you don't think he embraces socialist or marxist philosophy?
I don't want to ask you to prove a negative, but can you explain why? How do you explain away his personal history, his associations, his actions and statements, his voting record, and his actions in office so far?
 
The conservative-media spin-machine is performing well then; people thought only the Liberal-media was crafty at this. Kudos, he may only serve one term.

Still wouldn't bet on it though, least not today.

From here:
The first [condescending narrative] is the "vast right-wing conspiracy," a narrative made famous by Hillary Rodham Clinton but hardly limited to her. This vision maintains that conservatives win elections and policy debates not because they triumph in the open battle of ideas but because they deploy brilliant and sinister campaign tactics. A dense network of professional political strategists such as Karl Rove, think tanks such as the Heritage Foundation and industry groups allegedly manipulate information and mislead the public. Democratic strategist Rob Stein crafted a celebrated PowerPoint presentation during George W. Bush's presidency that traced conservative success to such organizational factors.

This liberal vision emphasizes the dissemination of ideologically driven views from sympathetic media such as the Fox News Channel. For example, Chris Mooney's book "The Republican War on Science" argues that policy debates in the scientific arena are distorted by conservatives who disregard evidence and reflect the biases of industry-backed Republican politicians or of evangelicals aimlessly shielding the world from modernity. In this interpretation, conservative arguments are invariably false and deployed only cynically. Evidence of the costs of cap-and-trade carbon rationing is waved away as corporate propaganda; arguments against health-care reform are written off as hype orchestrated by insurance companies.

This worldview was on display in the popular liberal reaction to the Supreme Court's recent ruling in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission. Rather than engage in a discussion about the complexities of free speech in politics, liberals have largely argued that the decision will "open the floodgates for special interests" to influence American elections, as the president warned in his State of the Union address. In other words, it was all part of the conspiracy to support conservative candidates for their nefarious, self-serving ends.

It follows that the thinkers, politicians and citizens who advance conservative ideas must be dupes, quacks or hired guns selling stories they know to be a sham. In this spirit, New York Times columnist Paul Krugman regularly dismisses conservative arguments not simply as incorrect, but as lies. Writing last summer, Krugman pondered the duplicity he found evident in 35 years' worth of Wall Street Journal editorial writers: "What do these people really believe? I mean, they're not stupid -- life would be a lot easier if they were. So they know they're not telling the truth. But they obviously believe that their dishonesty serves a higher truth. . . . The question is, what is that higher truth?"

In Krugman's world, there is no need to take seriously the arguments of "these people" -- only to plumb the depths of their errors and imagine hidden motives.

But, if conservative leaders are crass manipulators, then the rank-and-file Americans who support them must be manipulated at best, or stupid at worst. This is the second variety of liberal condescension, exemplified in Thomas Frank's best-selling 2004 book, "What's the Matter With Kansas?" Frank argued that working-class voters were so distracted by issues such as abortion that they were induced into voting against their own economic interests. Then-Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, later chairman of the Democratic National Committee, echoed that theme in his 2004 presidential run, when he said Republicans had succeeded in getting Southern whites to focus on "guns, God and gays" instead of economic redistribution.

And speaking to a roomful of Democratic donors in 2008, then-presidential candidate Obama offered a similar (and infamous) analysis when he suggested that residents of Rust Belt towns "cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations" about job losses. When his comments became public, Obama backed away from their tenor but insisted that "I said something that everybody knows is true."

In this view, we should pay attention to conservative voters' underlying problems but disregard the policy demands they voice; these are illusory, devoid of reason or evidence. This form of liberal condescension implies that conservative masses are in the grip of false consciousness. When they express their views at town hall meetings or "tea party" gatherings, it might be politically prudent for liberals to hear them out, but there is no reason to actually listen.


...To many liberals, this worldview may be appealing, but it severely limits our national conversation on critical policy issues.
 
And then there's the condescension of Obama:

"They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
 
From here:
The first [condescending narrative] is the "vast right-wing conspiracy," a narrative made famous by Hillary Rodham Clinton but hardly limited to her. This vision maintains that conservatives win elections and policy debates not because they triumph in the open battle of ideas but because they deploy brilliant and sinister campaign tactics. [/U][/I]​

Stopped reading there, as it's already a false representation of my post.

Bashing one's opponent relentlessly is meat-n-potatoes in politics, it works; works well. Never said "If Obama loses it's only because Conservatives lied (or other deceptive) about him."

Also of note and contrary to your article, the butt-hurt over Obama winning by Conservatives/Republicans is above the "Bush stole the election in Florida!" ranting the liberals did.
 
So you don't think he embraces socialist or marxist philosophy?
I don't want to ask you to prove a negative, but can you explain why? How do you explain away his personal history, his associations, his actions and statements, his voting record, and his actions in office so far?


I wouldn't say embrace, as I don't think he's trying to turn America into a socialist or Marxist country.
 
Stopped reading there, as it's already a false representation of my post.

Not so much but you didn't take the time to read that far and realize that. It seems you want to spout views dogmatically rooted in those narratives yet you don't want to even consider the possibility that the viewpoint you are espousing is false.

It seems that to you, it is not even worth considering weather or not Obama's policies and views are, in any way socialist. It simply has to be disinformation from the "conservative-media spin-machine". The same can be said of your take on the article in question. That is precisely what that article I quoted is talking about.

Those narratives are the root of the problem of why there can be no honest, productive dialog. Your snarky little comment about a "conservative-media spin-machine" serves as a means to simply dismiss the idea without consideration and removes the entire conservative viewpoint from the discussion without any consideration.

It is not only highly insulting and arrogant, but illogical because it uses incivility and demagoguery as a means of debate. Apparently, questioning the basic assumptions some of your world views rest on is too much to ask...
 
I wouldn't say embrace, as I don't think he's trying to turn America into a socialist or Marxist country.
What do you think a socialist country, or one rooted in Marxist ideology, looks like? I think it's obvious to even the most reserved observer that his administration is rapidly turning us into a "European-style socialism."

Can you think of anything he's done that embraces individual liberty, deregulation, or free-market capitalism? I can't.

It's a bit knee-jerk and defensive to deny the man, and those around him, embrace marxist philosophy. They've said so much in their own words.

How aggressive and radical their agenda is can still be debated, though I think it's becoming undeniable.
 

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