COP's and Coils or Tranny issues???

[chausse420]

I have been trying to figure out through HOURS of research on here and read many people opinions on this topic and do not want to spend the money (because I am a full time student, $ is tight) if I don't have the problem truly pinpointed. I get a jerking (not always) from 4-5 shift. It doesn't jerk if I use manual shift and shift it at higher RPM's, and even if I don't sometimes it doesn't jerk. I have read up on symptoms on the solenoid packs and valve body springs giving out, and have seen a video on how to rebuild the solenoids as well but still am not sure. Some people are very convinced it is the COP's and/or coils and others are saying its the solenoid pack and/or valve body due to shift springs giving out. If anybody can throw me some info on this and how to pin point that would be great. It has not thrown any codes either and its been doing it since 10/13/2012. Its a 2001 Lincoln LS V8, with 89,xxx miles on it. One owner, old couple with up to current mileage maintenance records when I bought it, so i know it wasn't mistreated. And in addition, the tranny fluid and filter was swapped at the dealership at about 70k miles. Sorry for the long post and thanks so much in advance for any info, I very much appreciate it!!!

 

[RigsLS]

A marginal failing coil won't give you a CEL but if you get your reader ready and really beat on it, you may be able to get a flashing CEL for about a minute or so, read that quickly and if you get anything PO3XXX related you'll know which coil to swap out.

Trouble is, if you don't swap all the COP's out while your at it, the others are going to fail shortly there after. These guys know this from experience and they are right.

Fix that first and you may very well find there is nothing going on with the tranny after all.

Don't forget the plugs while your in there and wouldn't hurt to either replace the MAF or clean it and stick a new air breather filter in there for good measures.

Nice little oil change, some fresh 91 Octane fuel with an injector cleaner and she be “Happy, happy, happy.” — Phil Robertson (Duck Dynasty)

 

[chausse420]

Well, the biggest issue is is that for me to get a solenoid pack for the tranny along with a new valve body im only lookin at 232 bucks, and new coils thru rock auto are going to run about 400+ for the descent motorcraft set. Thats my only issue, I just can barely afford either that why I was hoping to find out what actually is the issue. Will the solenoid pack or a shift spring failure throw a code?? Thanks again for all the input, its very much appreciated!!!

Oh, and my filter is brand new, I keep my baby as happy as possible. Thats why I am bummed about her yellin at me, and if i did replace one, I will definitely replace all of em, im not going this route again.

 

[RigsLS]

The jerking you may be experienceing could possibly be from the Marginal coil, as it kicks back in under load, it feels to you like there is something going on with the tranny.

~ I'm just saying

most are going to tell you to start with swapping out the coils and plugs.


when you WOT, does it bog down about mid way and if you keep on it does it ride itself out of the misfire ?

do you get any flashing on the dash at all ?

 

[chausse420]

No flashing at all, and the jerking doesn't last long, usually just a few seconds if that. And "from what I have noticed" its only in the 4-5 shift. But it hasn't been doing it long for me to really say that is the only time it does it.

 

[RigsLS]

I'm not 100% sure, still leaning towards the misfiring feeling like your tranny is having issues.

might not be anything wrong at all with the tranny.

Then again, you could very well have two problems at the same time.

is it a harsh hard knock into the next gear ?


EDIT - PS: sorry don't mean to run away but I gotta get some sleep.

 

[chausse420]

Not that I have heard or noticed. And when I pay attention to it, I make sure the stereo is down so I can feel and hear it. If its anything in the solenoid it is the valve body and/or solenoid pack, which is cheaper than the COP's. LOL But ya, that's why I thought is was the tranny as well, but the fact that it doesn't happen all the time makes me think COP's. Thats why I was hoping to hear from some LS'ers that have education on the topic (like yourself) or others that have had the problem and fixed it thru whatever means. The tricky thing about the tranny is I dont have the tool to fill the tranny fluid, but I can install the solenoid pack and valve body no problem.

Anybody that has had the problem or experienced this with no codes or lights, I would really appreciate any info. Thanks again in advance!!

 

[mrshl13]

I had the same problem (specifically jerking right after the 4-5 shift and backing off throttle to maintain speed around 55-60 mph) and it was solved by replacing the shift solenoid pack. I bought a new one from an ebay seller, NOT a reman from 800700tran.com. I've heard some horror stories so I went with new.

You could also have a problem w/ the overdrive servo bore being worn. I think that's one you can live with for a while but I wouldn't sit on the solenoid pack failure too long.

 

[joegr]

The real problem for you is that even if you don't need coils now, you will need them sooner or later. I am doubtful of the quality of the solenoid assembly and valve body at the prices you are throwing out. The working parts are generally much more than that.

 

[LS4me]

The main symptom of a failing solenoid pack (WHY do people always pluralize everything?!) is a delayed R-D or D-R shift. With almost 90K miles and 11 years on the stock set my money is on coils (and do the plugs while you're in there). High load (slower speeds in higher gears) bucking/jerking/etc. is where marginal coils will show themselves. Rarely, if ever, will a marginal coil throw a code.

I'm no expert in this, but I would replace the coils and plugs.

YMMV as always.....

 

[chausse420]

Well, whenever I can afford to, I'll prob start with the solenoid pack and go from there just because if i don't deal with the tranny issue if there is one, than it could turn into a horrible problem in the future. If its the COP's, that isn't gonna potentially cost 1700 to replace or rebuild a tranny. Just really crappy performance and bad gas mileage. Anybody see any issues with starting with the tranny? And does anybody have any good ideas on how to fill the tranny with fluid without having to pay somebody or a dealership to do it?? I would love to hear about this topic!! Thanks again guys!!!!

 

[hite337]

a solenoid pack for the tranny along with a new valve body im only lookin at 232 bucks

800700trans.com? Good luck with them. If the parts they sell you are bad you will never get your money back. Exchange only, and it doesnt say that anywhere on their site. Then you have to drop your trans pan again to remove their bad parts and wait for the new 'bad' parts and do the whole thing again.

Do the coils man, thats MOST LIKELY your problem. You asked for people with experience in this issue to give you advice...Well here it is.

 

[joegr]

Well, whenever I can afford to, I'll prob start with the solenoid pack and go from there just because if i don't deal with the tranny issue if there is one, than it could turn into a horrible problem in the future. If its the COP's, that isn't gonna potentially cost 1700 to replace or rebuild a tranny. Just really crappy performance and bad gas mileage. Anybody see any issues with starting with the tranny? And does anybody have any good ideas on how to fill the tranny with fluid without having to pay somebody or a dealership to do it?? I would love to hear about this topic!! Thanks again guys!!!!

Bad coils may cost you a couple of catalytic converters, but that is still less than a transmission.

You more or less need something like one of those pump up bug sprayers to fill the transmission.

http://www.amazon.com/Chapin-20000-...F8&qid=1350420295&sr=8-1&keywords=bug+sprayer
This plus some rigging of the nozzle.

Or, the right pump.
http://www.amazon.com/Mityvac-Fluid...F8&qid=1350420361&sr=1-12&keywords=fluid+pump
or
http://www.amazon.com/Custom-Access...F8&qid=1350420361&sr=1-16&keywords=fluid+pump
and a nozzle
http://www.amazon.com/OTC-6604-Tran...F8&qid=1350420361&sr=1-20&keywords=fluid+pump

The factory procedure.
http://deneau.info/ls/s6x~us~en~file=s6x71028.htm~gen~ref.htm

 

[RigsLS]

Rarely, if ever, will a marginal coil throw a code.

Hmmmm, I know I've read this over and over, however,
when mine started to act up, at first I had no codes either during slight hesitations but when I really put my foot into it, I could get it to flash.
It would go away after about a minute or on a restart.

Thinking there was a CEL for me to read, twice, we came up empty.
Stumped, I took my buddy for a ride and said, something's not right here.
and it became even more apparent right after my custom exhaust went on.

during the test drive, WOT until I got the CEL to flash, (I call it "open wallet light") it went out as quickly.

read it right immediatly thereafter, and sure enough, P0302.
(the CEL is cleared on the next drive cycle for some reason)

A P0302 code means that the car's computer has detected that one of the engine's cylinders is not firing properly. In this case it was cylinder #2.

AKA a marginal failing coil.

ordered up DG529's for my V8, NGK iridum plugs, installed and problem gone.



To the OP, I personally myself wouldn't do anything to the tranny until I got past the hesitation/misfire problem.

I would suggest coil packs & spark plugs. In some cases, the catalytic converter has gone bad. If you smell rotten eggs in the exhaust, your cat converter needs to be replaced.

You may think it's best to get to the transmission first because those repairs are cheaper for you now rather then later when complete failure, HOWEVER,
keep driving it with that misfire and then you might need to replace the CATS.

have you thought about that and have you checked prices on CAT for these LS's ? (and you thought tranny would be expensive.)

Change the COP's and plugs now, come back and thank everyone later.
I don't think you have any transmission related issues at all.

Fix the misfire first, is what I would do.
replacing CATS gets expensive.

 

[jrand]

you need coils unless you plan on selling the car in the next 3000 miles.
go to advance auto and get the bwd/intermotor ones. they have a lifetime warranty. buy each coil seperately online (and pickup at store) using code 'a123' to save the most.

install coils and youre probably due for plugs at 90k on an 01. after you install coils, disconnect your battery to clear the shift parameters (which incorporated the signals from your old/bad coils). follow the battery break in procedure found in the owners manual and do a drive cycle posted on here somewhere<search>. if that doesnt fix your problem, then do the tranny solenoid. i bet most ppl who replaced a tranny solenoid didnt actually have a bad tranny solenoid. they probably didnt calibrate their tranny correctly after a battery disconnect or after replacing a major component which factors into shift timing <theres a whole ton of things that do>.

i corrected a 'thud' when shifting to third by simply disconnecting the battery and following the procedure.

 

[jrand]

i could get the CEL to flash under a heavy load with failing coils. the light would go right away, and would not throw a code. eventually it started a permanent misfire (with misfire code)/limp mode(with throttle codes), new coils solved the problem. no throttle issue, though i cleaned the throttle body with teflon safe crc brand anyways

 

[chausse420]

holy $#@&%$#@, wait!!!!!!!! What do i need to do after disconnecting battery????? I just put in a stereo and a new battery, HOLY ****!!!!!! Thats probably the issue!!!!!!!! I'm searching as of right now for this!!!!!!!!!!!

This all started happening after the first time i drove it when my battery was replaced and a new sub was put in, I had it unplugged for like 10+ hours. What is the drive cycle and battery break in procedure. I am searching all over!!! Links anybody, thank you sooooooooo much!!!!

BigRigLS: I know you wanna jump in here, indulge me on this battery break in, because it has been jerking less and less, and has not jerked at all today. Is it because the better was disconnected and the shift parameters were reset?

 

[regiment1]

holy $#@&%$#@, wait!!!!!!!! What do i need to do after disconnecting battery????? I just put in a stereo and a new battery, HOLY ****!!!!!! Thats probably the issue!!!!!!!! I'm searching as of right now for this!!!!!!!!!!!

This all started happening after the first time i drove it when my battery was replaced and a new sub was put in, I had it unplugged for like 10+ hours. What is the drive cycle and battery break in procedure. I am searching all over!!! Links anybody, thank you sooooooooo much!!!!

BigRigLS: I know you wanna jump in here, indulge me on this battery break in, because it has been jerking less and less, and has not jerked at all today. Is it because the better was disconnected and the shift parameters were reset?

He's talking about a driving procedure he posted here that generated some, shall we say, spirited debate. Couldn't hurt to try it, but personally I'd just drive the car normally and let the computer do it's job setting the shift parameters. Replace your coils.

 

[chausse420]

it hasn't jerked in two days, i think it was the problem. but i will be replacing the coils when i get the money for sure, one less thing to have to worry about in the future

 

[G-RELL]

Nice little oil change, some fresh 91 Octane fuel with an injector cleaner and she be “Happy, happy, happy.” — Phil Robertson (Duck Dynasty)

HEY Jack.... looks like he fixed it... He's on like donkey kong!!!!

Damnit thats a funny show... Only thing my wife and I can agree to watch now adays... (since she's holing out on me and all )

 

[jrand]

I can almost guarantee you that you still need coils if theyre original, so if its a $ thing start saving now before you say this doesnt work. it will at least clear up your shifts temporarily, but out of spec coils will continue to cause problems with shifts.

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=85325
http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=84768

and if you searched thru my posts you can find even more information on this topic..

 

[jrand]

holy $#@&%$#@, wait!!!!!!!! What do i need to do after disconnecting battery????? I just put in a stereo and a new battery, HOLY ****!!!!!! Thats probably the issue!!!!!!!! I'm searching as of right now for this!!!!!!!!!!!

This all started happening after the first time i drove it when my battery was replaced and a new sub was put in, I had it unplugged for like 10+ hours. What is the drive cycle and battery break in procedure. I am searching all over!!! Links anybody, thank you sooooooooo much!!!!

BigRigLS: I know you wanna jump in here, indulge me on this battery break in, because it has been jerking less and less, and has not jerked at all today. Is it because the better was disconnected and the shift parameters were reset?

littlerig wont chime in bc he used to say disconnecting the battery is 'bs', just like many others who responded above.

the battery disconnect cleared your parameters, yes. your whole car needs to be recalibrated to function correctly. the owners manual has the procedure to follow right off the bat, a complete drive cycle is recommended, and then drive as you normally do and things should be fine unless you have an actual issue... which you likely do bc your coils are probably failing if theyre original.

 

[RigsLS]

littlerig wont chime in bc he used to say disconnecting the battery is 'bs', just like many others who responded above.

Listen you little jrant, I want you to now go and find "where and when" I said this.

Produce it ! quote me !

Where did I ever say this ?

Show me, you little f*cktard !

Find me, where I ever said to you "disconnecting the battery is 'bs'"

I'm waiting !

 

[RigsLS]

HEY Jack.... looks like he fixed it... He's on like donkey kong!!!!

Damnit thats a funny show... Only thing my wife and I can agree to watch now adays... (since she's holing out on me and all )

Hey !

Best show on TV these days, I'm so glad the beards are back !

~ loved the day he was send to school to cover for Willie's career day
and he explained all about vietnam to the little kiddies.

 

[LS4me]

Hey !

Best show on TV these days, I'm so glad the beards are back !

~ loved the day he was send to school to cover for Willie's career day
and he explained all about vietnam to the little kiddies.

That's the best you have? Phil dissecting the frog was better! I thought a few of those little girls were going to hurl!