Dealer's Not Always Best

Joeychgo

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Dealer's Not Always Best
Shop for Auto Repair





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By Terry Jackson
December 17, 2004

Your car is four years old, has 45,000 miles on it and needs new brakes. Where do you take it: to the dealer, a brake specialty shop or an independent garage?

Or suppose the "check engine" light comes on. Dealer or general repair shop? What about replacing front struts or shock absorbers? How about collision repair?

Different answers to these questions can mean vastly different repair bills. And at a time when a simple fuel fill-up can drain a wallet of $40 or more, who doesn't want to save a few bucks when it comes to automotive repairs and service?

Dealerships claim their factory-trained mechanics know your car better than a general garage or quickie service center. They use factory parts made for your car, they say.

All that may be true, but such expertise costs. And sometimes it doesn't take a factory Ph.D. to cure what ails your vehicle.

While rates vary across the country, dealership labor rates can run to $75 to $95 an hour, compared to $40 to $50 an hour at an independent garage.

Also, dealerships tend to go by what is called the "book'' rate or flat rate -- referring to a manual that estimates how long it should take a competent mechanic to do a specific job.

Theoretically, the book rate should save the customer from overpaying on an hourly basis because a mechanic worked too slowly. But if the mechanic does the job faster than what the book calls for, you still will be charged for the time specified.

While some shop owners may disagree, a repair based on a book rate almost always costs the customer more.

So if a dealer charges more per hour and uses the book rate, it's easy to see that using an independent garage that charges a straight hourly rate that's substantially lower is the way to go most of the time.

But this is not a one-size-fits-all world, so on some repairs it's a good idea to take advantage of the dealer's more expensive expertise.

Consider that pesky check-engine light, for example. It comes on when a sensor tells the car's computer that one or more operating conditions are out of whack. Usually this involves the emissions system, but can indicate other problems. Before taking it anywhere first make sure your gas cap is tightened -- the simplest possible solution to the problem.

The software that runs your vehicle is proprietary to the manufacturer, and it takes a properly programmed diagnostic computer to detect what's wrong. While such computer software is available to general repair shops, it's possible that their setup may not contain all the factory updates that a dealer should have.

So as a general rule, it's likely more cost effective to take more serious, internal problems, including those pesky glitches that only show up from time to time, to the dealer. Although the hourly rate may be higher, the dealer's expertise should be able to accurately diagnose and fix the problem more quickly.

General garages or shops that specialize in brakes or mufflers are cheaper alternatives for fixing or replacing items prone to normal wear -- brakes, shocks and struts, CV joints, mufflers and tires -- as well as services such as oil changes and front-end alignments.

And what about the debate over using factory-new parts, as opposed to parts made by someone with no connection to the manufacturer?

So-called factory parts are rarely made by Ford, GM, Honda or any other manufacturer. Subcontractors make their parts, so it's entirely possible that the part in a box with the manufacturer's logo at the dealership -- which likely will cost 20 percent more -- is the same part that's in a different box at the discount auto parts store.

A good rule of thumb: Make sure there's a warranty on the part and that it's specifically made for your vehicle. Then go for the best price, regardless of the logo on the box.

When it comes to body-and-fender work, the landscape isn't quite so clear-cut. Straightening a bent frame section or matching paint so a repair is undetectable can require a great deal of expertise that only a large dealer or repair shop can offer.

Replacing air bags and the sensors that trigger them in an accident can also require specialized knowledge. But some dealerships have taken to farming out much of their body and fender work to independent shops. An honest dealer will disclose this, but some will let you believe your car will be repaired in-house and will charge as though it was.

This is when your insurance company can be your best friend. Let them recommend a shop or dealer and have them directly pay the facility that does the work. That way you know what your out-of-pocket expense will be -- usually your deductible -- and your insurance company will have to stand behind the quality of the work.

In general, here are the questions you should ask before deciding where to get repair work done:

  • What's their hourly rate?
  • Do they estimate repairs by a book rate or a straight hourly rate?
  • Are they certified by the National Institute for Automotive Service?
  • Excellence or some other industry group, such as AAA?
  • Does their estimate include separate totals for parts and labor?
  • How does the cost of parts compare with the price at a discount house? Expect a markup, but it shouldn't be exorbitant.
  • Will they do the work for "labor only" if you provide the parts?
  • How long will they have your car and will they guarantee when it will be complete? One advantage in favor of dealers is that they often provide a loaner car if repairs will take days.
You should also inspect the shop to see if it is clean, well-organized and seems to be run in a professional manner. Engage the manager, owner or mechanic in discussion and trust your instincts about whether you're getting straight answers.
 
Joeychgo said:
Dealer's Not Always Best
Shop for Auto Repair






By Terry Jackson
December 17, 2004

Your car is four years old, has 45,000 miles on it and needs new brakes. Where do you take it: to the dealer, a brake specialty shop or an independent garage?

Or suppose the "check engine" light comes on. Dealer or general repair shop? What about replacing front struts or shock absorbers? How about collision repair?

Different answers to these questions can mean vastly different repair bills. And at a time when a simple fuel fill-up can drain a wallet of $40 or more, who doesn't want to save a few bucks when it comes to automotive repairs and service?

Dealerships claim their factory-trained mechanics know your car better than a general garage or quickie service center. They use factory parts made for your car, they say.

All that may be true, but such expertise costs. And sometimes it doesn't take a factory Ph.D. to cure what ails your vehicle.

While rates vary across the country, dealership labor rates can run to $75 to $95 an hour, compared to $40 to $50 an hour at an independent garage.

Also, dealerships tend to go by what is called the "book'' rate or flat rate -- referring to a manual that estimates how long it should take a competent mechanic to do a specific job.

Theoretically, the book rate should save the customer from overpaying on an hourly basis because a mechanic worked too slowly. But if the mechanic does the job faster than what the book calls for, you still will be charged for the time specified.

While some shop owners may disagree, a repair based on a book rate almost always costs the customer more.

So if a dealer charges more per hour and uses the book rate, it's easy to see that using an independent garage that charges a straight hourly rate that's substantially lower is the way to go most of the time.

But this is not a one-size-fits-all world, so on some repairs it's a good idea to take advantage of the dealer's more expensive expertise.

Consider that pesky check-engine light, for example. It comes on when a sensor tells the car's computer that one or more operating conditions are out of whack. Usually this involves the emissions system, but can indicate other problems. Before taking it anywhere first make sure your gas cap is tightened -- the simplest possible solution to the problem.

The software that runs your vehicle is proprietary to the manufacturer, and it takes a properly programmed diagnostic computer to detect what's wrong. While such computer software is available to general repair shops, it's possible that their setup may not contain all the factory updates that a dealer should have.

So as a general rule, it's likely more cost effective to take more serious, internal problems, including those pesky glitches that only show up from time to time, to the dealer. Although the hourly rate may be higher, the dealer's expertise should be able to accurately diagnose and fix the problem more quickly.

General garages or shops that specialize in brakes or mufflers are cheaper alternatives for fixing or replacing items prone to normal wear -- brakes, shocks and struts, CV joints, mufflers and tires -- as well as services such as oil changes and front-end alignments.

And what about the debate over using factory-new parts, as opposed to parts made by someone with no connection to the manufacturer?

So-called factory parts are rarely made by Ford, GM, Honda or any other manufacturer. Subcontractors make their parts, so it's entirely possible that the part in a box with the manufacturer's logo at the dealership -- which likely will cost 20 percent more -- is the same part that's in a different box at the discount auto parts store.

A good rule of thumb: Make sure there's a warranty on the part and that it's specifically made for your vehicle. Then go for the best price, regardless of the logo on the box.

When it comes to body-and-fender work, the landscape isn't quite so clear-cut. Straightening a bent frame section or matching paint so a repair is undetectable can require a great deal of expertise that only a large dealer or repair shop can offer.

Replacing air bags and the sensors that trigger them in an accident can also require specialized knowledge. But some dealerships have taken to farming out much of their body and fender work to independent shops. An honest dealer will disclose this, but some will let you believe your car will be repaired in-house and will charge as though it was.

This is when your insurance company can be your best friend. Let them recommend a shop or dealer and have them directly pay the facility that does the work. That way you know what your out-of-pocket expense will be -- usually your deductible -- and your insurance company will have to stand behind the quality of the work.

In general, here are the questions you should ask before deciding where to get repair work done:
  • What's their hourly rate?
  • Do they estimate repairs by a book rate or a straight hourly rate?
  • Are they certified by the National Institute for Automotive Service?
  • Excellence or some other industry group, such as AAA?
  • Does their estimate include separate totals for parts and labor?
  • How does the cost of parts compare with the price at a discount house? Expect a markup, but it shouldn't be exorbitant.
  • Will they do the work for "labor only" if you provide the parts?
  • How long will they have your car and will they guarantee when it will be complete? One advantage in favor of dealers is that they often provide a loaner car if repairs will take days.
You should also inspect the shop to see if it is clean, well-organized and seems to be run in a professional manner. Engage the manager, owner or mechanic in discussion and trust your instincts about whether you're getting straight answers.
ok just my .02 cents
1st YOU should know your car better than anyone else. if you need brakes you shold know it long before some shop tells you.you should be able to do this yourself but if not go to a chain store (you can trust them if you know your car) you can generally machine your rotors once or twice before you need to replace them also some chain stores offer lifetime brakes just be sure your warranty includes labor(some still do)
2nd if you get a check engine light you can do two things
1) go to your local parts store and get an obdII reader. about 200 bux
2) or go to your local autozone they will diagnose your car for free. now you saved the 80-90 buck diag fee. if its a simple fix your confident with fix it if not take it to a mechanic and tell them you had it diaged most mechanics today are parts changers anyway so it shouldnt be costly.
3rd body work should almost always go to a reputible shop. i agree with using your insurance company as a resource. also most real good shops will have a portfolio book with before and after shots.
all in all like i said the very first thing you should do is become educated in the workings of your car terms and specs are always a good place to start. remeber no shop can do anything to your car you dont want them to do. and you have the right to accept or refuse any "recommended" work and get what you came to have done get done. its your car after all.
but again and i cant say it enough is educate yourself so you are armed with the best weapon possible when dealing with shops.

Eric
 
Huh, they make it seem like book time is a scam. I guarantee you it is not. When the damn book says .5 hours for spark plugs on a transverse 3.8L Ford V6 - it's the mechanic that gets it in the ass.
 
1st YOU should know your car better than anyone else. if you need brakes you shold know it long before some shop tells you.
this is very true u should kno your car if u have no clue on how anythin works on your car alot of places will screw u over with things that didnt need to b done


as for takin your car into a dealer i only do that couse i hate wiring work and i have them replace sensors that i am not familar with but i have the comp read by my local autoparts store first n if it is somthing that i am confident in myself or my mechanic doing i do it myself in my opinoin if u have a reputable shop do repair work then u r probably going to b pretty safe but if it is somthing that is mainly a prob with ur make madel yr i think it might b a good idea to check wit dealer first
 
The ONLY way I would take my car, or any car for that matter, to the dealer, is IF it was under warranty....because it is free. Then, I would take it to another shop and have it inspected (if I could not do it myself). I DO NOT trust the stealerships at all, UNLESS I know the mechanix myself, or in my case, my father knows them.....which usually he does.
 
I dont think its just about trusting them - common sense -- dealerships typically charge $80 an hour for labor and reg shops charge half that.

Common sense on that issue alone says dont go.


-
 
Another thing to consider is that Dealers do a large volume of work in a year.If you do 10,000 jobs a year, even 100 pissed off customers in acceptable.This goes for chain shops as well.A good local independant shop tends to be more concerned with reputation and is probably more likely to do quality work in order to keep you comming back.Dealers know that they can get more work than they can handle, and if you don't come back it won't hurt them.With the info that you can get on the internet now, and the fact that you can get a scanner for $200.00 to $1000.00, most shops are well equipped for diags on computers and sensors.My general rule has been, "The bigger the name,(Midas, AAMCO, etc.) the less likely they are to do good work.)
 
crazyman said:
My general rule has been, "The bigger the name,(Midas, AAMCO, etc.) the less likely they are to do good work.)

AND with a good portion of those places they do not have certified techs.....they have regular guys off of da street workin on your car.......they have some certified techs (usually the manager, or lead mechanic), but not many.
 

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