Do Dems want us to lose???

Well, im not sure about the accuracy of the poll. No - Dems dont want us to lose - I cant believe 11% of the repubs want us to lose either-
 
The extreme criticism of the war by liberals shows they are more loyal to their own war against republicans than to our Nation and our military. I've heard many troops being interviewed stating how the constant barrage of criticism is making their jobs that much more difficult and is encouraging the insurgents. Do democrats care? Obviously NOT!

The main focus of the enemy is to dishearten and turn Americans against the war by attacking in the most reprehensible and shocking ways possible, including attacks upon innocent civilians. Unfortunately, the liberal media and democrats like Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Howard Dean, and Edward Kennedy are among their best friends. I will repeat what I have said in the past, which is that democrats (the aforementioned to name a few) have directly caused the deaths of U.S. soldiers as a result of their extreme and unnecessary criticism of the War.

It’s undeniable that the democrat party’s main strategy is to undermine President Bush and the republican party by undermining War. Make no mistake, the democrat party is on a crusade to end the War as a failure for the United States. They have expended a great deal of energy and political clout criticizing the War and, as a result, have exposed themselves and their party to tremendous political damage should the War end with a U.S. victory. Thus, for obvious reason they would not want the War to have a successful conclusion for the United States.
 
Oh come on - Do you really think DNC people sit around and PLAN the embarassment of the US, the death of our soldiers and hope for our loss in Iraq JUST to embarass President Bush and the Republican Party?

You better get a grip on reality.

Right, Wrong or otherwise the dems and now even a good percentage of republicans believe the War in Iraq was a mistake and will continue to cost us both in lives and in dollars with no positive resolution in sight. Its that simple.
I could make the claim that GW took us into IRAQ for his own political gain as well, or to avenge the attempt on his father, or to benefit his friends in the il business -- etc etc --- but that too would be BS. Right, wrong or otherwise, GW felt it was important to our national security to engage in this war.

You better get back to reality.
 
Joeychgo said:
Oh come on - Do you really think DNC people sit around and PLAN the embarassment of the US, the death of our soldiers and hope for our loss in Iraq JUST to embarass President Bush and the Republican Party?

You better get a grip on reality.

Right, Wrong or otherwise the dems and now even a good percentage of republicans believe the War in Iraq was a mistake and will continue to cost us both in lives and in dollars with no positive resolution in sight. Its that simple.
I could make the claim that GW took us into IRAQ for his own political gain as well, or to avenge the attempt on his father, or to benefit his friends in the il business -- etc etc --- but that too would be BS. Right, wrong or otherwise, GW felt it was important to our national security to engage in this war.

You better get back to reality.

You couldn't be more incorrect. The fact is that the vast majority of the country, Dems, Republicans, and media were behind Bush in the decision to go to war. Clinton thought Saddam had WMDs, so did everybody else in the world.

The point is that your statement that everybody thinks (now, with hindsight) that the war was a mistake is a fallacy perpetrated by skewed polls. It isn't a question of the war being a mistake, it's a question of the people of this country being impatient with a drawn-out, painful occupation. And this impatience is being fueled by the media's negative reporting and by the Democrats' negative complaining. It's affecting me, even I am wishing this thing were just over already.

It's already been chronicled how quickly we won Gulf War I, and how quickly we took Baghdad. We never even sent ground troops into Somalia. We are a fast food nation, and we expect everything to be easy and quick. And the Dems/media don't help things with their constant rhetoric.

On one hand, the media and Dems cry and whine about terrorist conditions at Club Gitmo, Haditha, and Abu Ghraib, but on the other hand they complain that we're not winning the war fast enough. You can't have it both ways. If you're going to tie the hands of our soldiers and not let them do their jobs correctly, a.k.a. be ruthless and brutal when necessary, you cannot then complain about the length of time it is taking to resolve all insurgencies. I guarantee you if we had a poll that asked whether or not the troops should be allowed to be tough and brutal, the majority of the American people would be in favor of it. Curious that we don't see that poll.

The reality is that the polls are twisting the emotions of the American people in order to embarrass Bush. The American people, and I am one of them, aren't thinking this was a mistake, they are just getting impatient, thanks to the media and Dems' whining. So the polls skew the negative sentiment down a different path, thus misrepresenting what's really happening out there.
 
You know something fossten - according to you, im always wrong. What BS.

The American people are just impatient? Why did we invade Iraq? Im still waiting on these weapons of mass destruction to be found. That was one of the big reasons. Im still waiting for all the terrorists that were being harbored there to be found. Impatient? This has taken longer then World War II already.... The polls are at fault now? Please. The only one embarassing Bush is Bush. Let me ask - since the media is to blame for all this in your eyes - who embarassed Clinton? The media and Republicans right? I mean, its fair to say that isnt it? Grow up fossten and learn something about the world, or to coin a phrase from Bryan, stop drinking the kool aid.
 
Joeychgo said:
Right, Wrong or otherwise the dems and now even a good percentage of republicans believe the War in Iraq was a mistake and will continue to cost us both in lives and in dollars with no positive resolution in sight.
Ah. Back seat driving and Monday morning quarterbacking. LEADERS don't have those luxuries.

We did what was right and necessary. Plain and simple.
 
MonsterMark said:
Ah. Back seat driving and Monday morning quarterbacking. LEADERS don't have those luxuries.

We did what was right and necessary. Plain and simple.



Then you can blame your beloved republicans too - oh, and the majority of the American people. Many who bought the BS 5 years ago, dont believe it now, because more and more facts have come to light over time or not been proven.
 
Joeychgo said:
Then you can blame your beloved republicans too - oh, and the majority of the American people. Many who bought the BS 5 years ago, dont believe it now, because more and more facts have come to light over time or not been proven.

So what? That's called hindsight, and for anybody to say with hindsight that the war was a mistake isn't using common sense. Much good has come from the war, the Iraqis are pleading with us not to leave, and we have attracted the terrorists to fight the WOT in a part of the world that doesn't resemble any of our own cities. Saddam and his sons are dead, and the Iraqis have a growing economy and hope for the future, if your beloved Democrats don't extinguish it, that is. I swear, you guys can't acknowledge positive news if it smacks you in the face. That's tunnelvision.

The fact of the matter is that the reason we went into Iraq centered around 17 UN resolutions that Saddam deliberately ignored. Or hadn't we mentioned this before about a dozen times?

I guess no amount of factual information manages to sift through your thick skull when you're biased against Bush. But that's nothing new. Don't expect me to start saying you're right about your one-sided opinions when you ignore factual information JUST BECAUSE IT FAVORS BUSH.
 
fossten said:
So what? That's called hindsight, and for anybody to say with hindsight that the war was a mistake isn't using common sense. Much good has come from the war, the Iraqis are pleading with us not to leave, and we have attracted the terrorists to fight the WOT in a part of the world that doesn't resemble any of our own cities. Saddam and his sons are dead, and the Iraqis have a growing economy and hope for the future, if your beloved Democrats don't extinguish it, that is. I swear, you guys can't acknowledge positive news if it smacks you in the face. That's tunnelvision.
Iraqis "are pleading with us not to leave"? Care to name one or two? The vast majority of civilians want us out, and a majority think it's A-OK for the insurgents to kill our troops. Maliki told Bush in November that he wanted us out so that he could send his death squads in to kill every Sunni in Baghdad.

And this ludicrous argument that we're "fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here" is nothing but parroting of right-wing talking points. It has no place in reality. Do you honestly believe that the war in Iraq has rendered them incapable of sending a few dozen cells over here to wreak havoc? If so, please explain how that works.

The fact that the media haven't covered the building of schools and whatnot is because those things kind of pale in comparison with the dozens of people getting KILLED each and every day.

Okay great, Saddam and his sons are dead. Wonderful. And what do we have to take their place? A government that is aligning itself with Iran, and brimming with supporters of al-Sadr. NOT so wonderful.

fossten said:
The fact of the matter is that the reason we went into Iraq centered around 17 UN resolutions that Saddam deliberately ignored. Or hadn't we mentioned this before about a dozen times?
Why is it that you are so quick to cite UN resolutions whenever it seems to serve your purpose, but show complete and utter disdain for them otherwise? Sorry, but you are hereby forbidden to use the UN in an argument. Besides, I don't remember any of those resolutions authorizing the use of force against Iraq.

fossten said:
I guess no amount of factual information manages to sift through your thick skull when you're biased against Bush. But that's nothing new. Don't expect me to start saying you're right about your one-sided opinions when you ignore factual information JUST BECAUSE IT FAVORS BUSH.
Do you ever go back and read your own posts? Sweet Jesus, you're so blind to your own hypocrisy it's insane. I have yet to see anything you've ever written that is favorable towards Democrats as a whole, or to criticize Bush, other than a few token knocks against his border policy or whatnot. Your seething hatred of Democrats and "libruls" comes out loud and clear in every post you make here. Give me a break.
 
TommyB said:
Iraqis "are pleading with us not to leave"? Care to name one or two? The vast majority of civilians want us out, and a majority think it's A-OK for the insurgents to kill our troops. Maliki told Bush in November that he wanted us out so that he could send his death squads in to kill every Sunni in Baghdad.

There are numerous reports from soldiers who are in contact with the Iraqi people that state that the Iraqis are very concerned that we will leave them in the "lurch," pardon the pun. Just because it hasn't been reported in the MSM, well, that speaks for itself.

And where are you getting your data that the "vast majority" of Iraqis want us out? Hmm? Do you have polling data? Or did you interview every single one of them last week? Somebody's not grounded in reality, and it's not me.
TommyB said:
And this ludicrous argument that we're "fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here" is nothing but parroting of right-wing talking points. It has no place in reality. Do you honestly believe that the war in Iraq has rendered them incapable of sending a few dozen cells over here to wreak havoc? If so, please explain how that works.
Well, let's see, we are fighting Al Qaeda forces in Baghdad. That has been documented and is beyond dispute. Point one for me. Furthermore, we have not been attacked in the US since 9/11. Point two for me. Rendered them incapable? No, that's a pathetic straw man argument. I never said that. It has, however, rendered them less effective since they are having to devote more and more money and manpower over there rather than attack us on our homeland. Obviously you know zilch about military strategy. It's more effective to fight an enemy on his own turf than on your own.
TommyB said:
The fact that the media haven't covered the building of schools and whatnot is because those things kind of pale in comparison with the dozens of people getting KILLED each and every day.
Oh, so you think it's more important to chronicle the deaths of every soldier killed in Iraq and not chronicle the good that's being done over there as well? Gee, that would mean that they're being killed for nothing. The "vast majority" of soldiers who have been interviewed have expressed disgust for that kind of thinking. They believe that they are doing good work over there, and the large numbers of soldiers volunteering for second and third tours over there proves it. Where's your evidence? The Driveby Media?

You libs are such whiners. Just because we have setbacks in a war, we should cut and retreat? That's a hoot, considering there isn't a single war in the history of man that's ever gone exactly as planned, and considering some of the wars in the last hundred years, this one is relatively bloodless. You, sir, are making mountains out of molehills.
TommyB said:
Okay great, Saddam and his sons are dead. Wonderful. And what do we have to take their place? A government that is aligning itself with Iran, and brimming with supporters of al-Sadr. NOT so wonderful.

I've already discussed my view of Islamic governments in general, and I don't think I have to do it again. However, look at your sarcastic tone, minimizing the importance of Saddam being out of power. One would think you were mourning that fact along with your Dem buddies.
TommyB said:
Why is it that you are so quick to cite UN resolutions whenever it seems to serve your purpose, but show complete and utter disdain for them otherwise? Sorry, but you are hereby forbidden to use the UN in an argument. Besides, I don't remember any of those resolutions authorizing the use of force against Iraq.

Oh, really? No more free speech for me? Oh, darn. So you are suppressing my right to speak about something? Gee, what a tolerant, enlyghtened, progressyve individual you must be, forbidding me. Oh, I am so intimidated. You remind me of the high school bully, the one whose ass I kicked back in 1987. All bluster and no substance.

That's your best counter argument: You don't like the use of UN facts, so you forbid me to use them? That's the most absurd, childish thing I've ever seen you post. Don't make me laugh. And then you try to use the UN argument to point out the lack of authorization of force? Sorry, you can't have it both ways.
TommyB said:
Do you ever go back and read your own posts? Sweet Jesus, you're so blind to your own hypocrisy it's insane. I have yet to see anything you've ever written that is favorable towards Democrats as a whole, or to criticize Bush, other than a few token knocks against his border policy or whatnot. Your seething hatred of Democrats and "libruls" comes out loud and clear in every post you make here. Give me a break.

Let's see, here, you've called me insane, hypocritical, and accused me of having seething hatred. And you've invoked the name of Jesus, whom I'm sure you've never met. Nice job of debating, personal attacker. What are you doing, letting Johnny post for you?

As a matter of fact, I have been extremely critical of Bush in the past, and you seem to be the only person who doesn't realize that. I've criticized him about the Harriet Miers nomination, on his immigration amnesty plan, and most recently on his minimalist attitude in fighting in Iraq. Go look it up. But in your seething hatred for all things Bush and all things conservative, I shouldn't expect you to see any of that.
 
fossten said:
And where are you getting your data that the "vast majority" of Iraqis want us out? Hmm? Do you have polling data? Or did you interview every single one of them last week? Somebody's not grounded in reality, and it's not me.

Here's a reality check for you..........

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003410658

New Survey: Iraqis Want a Speedy U.S. Exit -- and Back Attacks on Our Forces

By E&P Staff

Published: November 21, 2006 10:20 AM ET

NEW YORK Past surveys have hinted at this result, but a new poll in Iraq makes it more stark than ever: the Iraqi people want the U.S. to exit their country. And most Iraqis now approve of attacks on U.S. forces, even though 94% express disapproval of al-Qaeda.

At one time, this was primarily a call by the Sunni minority, but now the Shiites have also come around to this view. The survey by much-respected World Public Opinion (WPO), taken in September, found that 74% of Shiites and 91% of Sunnis in Iraq want us to leave within a year. The number of Shiites making this call in Baghdad, where the U.S. may send more troops to bring order, is even higher (80%). In contrast, earlier this year, 57% of this same group backed an "open-ended" U.S. stay.

By a wide margin, both groups believe U.S. forces are provoking more violence than they're preventing -- and that day-to-day security would improve if we left.

Support for attacks on U.S. forces now commands majority support among both Shiites and Sunnis. The report states: "Support for attacks on U.S.-led forces has grown to a majority position—now six in ten. Support appears to be related to widespread perception, held by all ethnic groups, that the U.S. government plans to have permanent military bases in Iraq and would not withdraw its forces from Iraq even if the Iraqi government asked it to. If the U.S. were to commit to withdraw, more than half of those who approve of attacks on US troops say that their support for attacks would diminish."

The backing for attacks on our forces has jumped to 61% from 47% in January.


Among Iraqis overall, 77% percent prefer that a strong government get rid of militias, including 100% of the Sunnis polled and 82% of Kurds.
But "the Shia population in Baghdad is more skeptical than elsewhere about the wisdom of disarming the militias," a report by WPO states. In Baghdad, Shias say they want militias to continue to protect their security (59%).

The national survey reached 1,150 Iraqis. It was conducted by the Program on International Policy Attitudes (PIPA) at the University of Maryland.

Nearly every opinion poll in the U.S. has shown that roughly 6 in 10 Americans also back a withdrawal within a year.

*owned*
 
The poll asked whether Iraqis want the U.S. to leave "within a year," which would be by this coming September. The government does not want the U.S. to leave until it can stand on its own.

This poll is old news since for months Iraqis have been growing more and more impatient and have been expressing their desire to take full control. Frankly, after 5 years what do you expect? However, no doubt that should the U.S. leave and should the streets of Baghdad and the rest of Iraq turn even more bloody those that wanted the U.S. to leave will be clamoring for the U.S. to return. In fact, for this very reason the government does not want the U.S. to leave—Yet.

So it took 5 years for a poll to finally indicate that Iraqis want the U.S. to leave. WOW! What big news! :rolleyes: Nevertheless, that's not a very good track record.

It’s predictable that someone opposed to the war wouldn't hesitate quote such a poll while ignoring the previous 4 years.
 
MAC1 said:
This poll is old news since for months Iraqis have been growing more and more impatient and have been expressing their desire to take full control. Frankly, after 5 years what do you expect? However, no doubt that should the U.S. leave and should the streets of Baghdad and the rest of Iraq turn even more bloody those that wanted the U.S. to leave will be clamoring for the U.S. to return. In fact, for this very reason the government does not want the U.S. to leave—Yet.

So it took 5 years for a poll to finally indicate that Iraqis want the U.S. to leave. WOW! What big news! :rolleyes: Nevertheless, that's not a very good track record.

I'm not sure what point you are attempting to make, other that parroting the same old rhetoric. NEWS FLASH! We haven't yet been in Iraq for 4 years! WTF does their opinion 5 years ago have to do with the price of apples in Japan?

MAC1 said:
It’s predictable that someone opposed to the war wouldn't hesitate quote such a poll while ignoring the previous 4 years.

So you'd prefer to ignore the most recent data in favor of old out of date data? Getting out of Iraq within the next 6 months wasn't even an issue 3 years ago. You are either confused or ignorant.
 
JohnnyBz00LS said:
I'm not sure what point you are attempting to make, other that parroting the same old rhetoric. NEWS FLASH! We haven't yet been in Iraq for 4 years! WTF does their opinion 5 years ago have to do with the price of apples in Japan?



So you'd prefer to ignore the most recent data in favor of old out of date data? Getting out of Iraq within the next 6 months wasn't even an issue 3 years ago. You are either confused or ignorant.
The United States will be in Iraq five years in March. At any rate, I edited the post to 4 years and it took but somehow it has reappeared as 5 years again. It will be 4 years on March 20th. Regardless, play the numbers game all you like instead of addressing the merits.

Where were you when the polls showed Iraqis were in favor of the U.S. remaining in Iraq? I believe you were one that was still in favor of the U.S. pulling out even when polls showed Iraqis in favor of the U.S. remaining?

Am I ignoring the poll? Sure I am since the Iraqi government wants the U.S. to remain for the time being and there’s a tentative timetable in place for Iraqi troops to slowly take control and I don’t see any reason why the U.S. and Iraqi government should deviate from that plan.
 
MAC1 said:
Where were you when the polls showed Iraqis were in favor of the U.S. remaining in Iraq? I believe you were one that was still in favor of the U.S. pulling out even when polls showed Iraqis in favor of the U.S. remaining?
You would be wrong.

MAC1 said:
Am I ignoring the poll? Sure I am since the Iraqi government wants the U.S. to remain for the time being and there’s a tentative timetable in place for Iraqi troops to slowly take control and I don’t see any reason why the U.S. and Iraqi government should deviate from that plan.

You obviously missed the reason why I posted the poll in the first place. Look above and re-read the quote to which I was responding. I wasn't taking issue w/ the Iraqi GOVT wanting us to nurse them to adult hood. However, that "tentative timetable" which you refer to didn't even exist prior to 11/7/06, when BuSh FINALLY responded to domestic pressure to apply one. And only then did Maliki start his crying for us to stay. In fact, his first response was that BuSh was just reacting as a last ditch attempt to save a huge GOP loss at the polls. Don't sit there and pretend that this timetable was something BuSh pulled out of his hat. In fact, when senator whats-his-name (Dem, decorated Vietnam Vet, names slipping my mind at the moment) first proposed a timetable over a year ago, he was lambasted by every GOP clown and pundit out there, including all the RWWs in here. NOW you are all thinking it's a great idea? Hypocracy abounds on the right.
 
JohnnyBz00LS said:
However, that "tentative timetable" which you refer to didn't even exist prior to 11/7/06, when BuSh FINALLY responded to domestic pressure to apply one. And only then did Maliki start his crying for us to stay. In fact, his first response was that BuSh was just reacting as a last ditch attempt to save a huge GOP loss at the polls. Don't sit there and pretend that this timetable was something BuSh pulled out of his hat. In fact, when senator whats-his-name (Dem, decorated Vietnam Vet, names slipping my mind at the moment) first proposed a timetable over a year ago, he was lambasted by every GOP clown and pundit out there, including all the RWWs in here. NOW you are all thinking it's a great idea? Hypocracy abounds on the right.
No one said anything about the current timetable being a great idea but it is the current plan. I know liberals find it hard to understand the term "plan" since they can't think of one of their own.

Anyway, the democrat idea of a timetable had more to do with arbitrarily pulling troops out on a certain date regardless of whether Iraq's government and military were ready. The current timetable is a phased plan based on Iraqi forces being trained and ready first and then slowly withdrawing American troops. This is in stark contrast to what many democrats proposed as a timetable. The democrats just wanted to get out regardless, which President Bush objected to.
 
MAC1 said:
No one said anything about the current timetable being a great idea but it is the current plan. I know liberals find it hard to understand the term "plan" since they can't think of one of their own.

Anyway, the democrat idea of a timetable had more to do with arbitrarily pulling troops out on a certain date regardless of whether Iraq's government and military were ready. The current timetable is a phased plan based on Iraqi forces being trained and ready first and then slowly withdrawing American troops. This is in stark contrast to what many democrats proposed as a timetable. The democrats just wanted to get out regardless, which President Bush objected to.

Baloney, the dem's timetable was based on an expected date for the Iraqi forces to step up. But even if what you say was true, SSDD. The end effect on getting the Iraqi GOVT's attention, which in turn made them nervous about being left to defend themselves and make them think harder about committing to step up and take control is the same. Too bad that BuSh's procrastination on actually giving them a timetable cost us a year's worth of loss of American soldier's lives.
 
JohnnyBz00LS said:
Baloney, the dem's timetable was based on an expected date for the Iraqi forces to step up. But even if what you say was true, SSDD. The end effect on getting the Iraqi GOVT's attention, which in turn made them nervous about being left to defend themselves and make them think harder about committing to step up and take control is the same. Too bad that BuSh's procrastination on actually giving them a timetable cost us a year's worth of loss of American soldier's lives.

First of all, you can't prove that Bush procrastinated. To do so means that you assume he deliberately chose to do nothing, and you have zero evidence of that. Second, you can't show that giving the Iraqis a timetable is going to save American lives. If anything, once the enemy knows we're leaving, they'll step up the violence.

Third, the issue isn't that the Iraqis needed to think harder about taking control. It was about the new, fledgling Iraqi government LEARNING the right and wrong steps to take, such as quelling the militias like Mookie Al-Sadr et al, and such as taking the gloves off our soldiers and not interfering with our capture of Al Qaeda members.

Look, Johnny, our own Democracy had a hard time getting off the ground. We had Shay's rebellion, the war of 1812, the Barbary Wars (Islamic terrorists) and a lot of other problems. We had to scrap our first Constitution, the Articles of Confederation, because it didn't work.

This country is still an idea, and it's always evolving and growing. We still aren't getting it completely right and we've been around now for two hundred and thirty years. Cut the Iraqis some slack, they've only been voting for little over a year. Jeez.
 
fossten said:
Third, the issue isn't that the Iraqis needed to think harder about taking control. It was about the new, fledgling Iraqi government LEARNING the right and wrong steps to take, such as quelling the militias like Mookie Al-Sadr et al, and such as taking the gloves off our soldiers and not interfering with our capture of Al Qaeda members.

Look, Johnny, our own Democracy had a hard time getting off the ground. We had Shay's rebellion, the war of 1812, the Barbary Wars (Islamic terrorists) and a lot of other problems. We had to scrap our first Constitution, the Articles of Confederation, because it didn't work.

This country is still an idea, and it's always evolving and growing. We still aren't getting it completely right and we've been around now for two hundred and thirty years. Cut the Iraqis some slack, they've only been voting for little over a year. Jeez.

And therein lies the problem with "nation building", which BTW BuSh promised he would not do. It DOES take a LONG time. However, WE cannot do it for the Iraqis, THEY have to do it for themselves. Certainly you aren't proposing we hold their hands for 200 years? Even if we were to do that, do you think it'd be stable? They'll cherrish their democracy much more if they earn it on their own. This is an oversimplification, but our holding their hands until democracy flourishes is akin to handing a 16 y/o new driver the keys to a new car vs. making that 16 y/o get a job to buy thier own car. Who do you think is going to take better care of their car?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/op...jan14,0,7058571.story?coll=bal-oped-headlines

Escalation alone is doomed to fail

By David L. Mack

Originally published January 14, 2007

There is no military silver bullet for our dilemma in Iraq.

Unless Iraqi leaders make tough decisions to improve political dialogue and governance, President Bush's proposed increase in U.S. combat forces will be a waste of our precious human resources.

Leading advocates of a surge in U.S. military deployment to Iraq are correct in saying it would be effective only if it were substantial [and IMO 21.5K troops hardly qualifies as "substantial"] and sustained. But the necessary political accommodations by Iraq's ruling groups and the necessary level of economic assistance to the least-secure areas must also be substantial and sustained. Moreover, the United States would have to be willing to give other governments a stake in stabilizing Iraq, unless it is prepared to maintain the increase in military force and economic assistance indefinitely.

Iraqi sectarianism, suppressed under decades of Baathist rule, has polarized political identities during the past few years of extreme personal insecurity, hardship and uncertainty. The leading Shiite politician with a reputation for reaching across the sectarian divide, Ayad Allawi, is unpopular because of his cooperation with forceful U.S. military measures against Sunni insurgents and the Shiite Mahdi Army. No Sunni Arab leader has emerged with the combination of courage, political skills and a loyal constituency necessary to negotiate effectively with the better-organized Kurdish and Shiite leaders. The vast majority of Sunni Arabs no longer aspire to dominate Iraq, but they will fight for their neighborhoods and homes. In the absence of better leaders, they can be tools for extremists.

There are few indications that Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has the will or capability to engineer the required political changes. Inevitably, they require giving constitutional and power-sharing concessions to Sunni Arab or secular Shiite opponents of the government at the expense of Mr. al-Maliki's sectarian Shiite base. His personal toughness has been found wanting in the past, perhaps because his viability as prime minister depends on satisfying the real political power-brokers of his coalition: Abdulaziz Hakim and Muqtada al-Sadr.

Sunni Arabs view his timid and vacillating outreach as the halfhearted result of American pressure. Few Iraqis believe political concessions will be sustained as U.S. involvement and influence ebb. Moreover, the Kurds do not support constitutional revisions and guarantees for equal distribution of oil revenues to Sunni Arabs.

Constitutional reform, oil revenues, political power-sharing and a relaxation of extreme measures against former Baath Party members have been showstoppers in the past for a prime minister who is unable to buck his political base. The Iraq Study Group advised making these issues conditions for continued U.S. support, but President Bush is providing U.S. military backing up front and thereby surrendering the leverage he might have used during the past two years.

At the same time, Iran has gained political influence in Baghdad partly through subversion but also through an Iraqi electoral process that emphasized sectarian identity. Reversing the real and perceived impediments to Sunni participation in future governments would require sustained support from elements of the Shiite majority for painful compromises.

On the economic side, the government has failed to provide adequate reconstruction resources to Sunni Arab areas devastated by fighting. Basic services in such areas are just as essential as security and must be sustained for a long time to be effective.

Mr. Bush says, "The Iraqi government will spend $10 billion of its own money," but Sunni Arabs in Baghdad have only to look at the relatively pacified but economically desolate cities of Fallujah and Tal Afar to imagine what lies ahead for them. A meaningful jobs program must offer more than short-term projects to overcome the purely economic attractions of collusion with the insurgency. Personal insecurity and anti-occupation grievances are additional impediments.

The lack of an international diplomatic framework for stabilizing Iraq, combined with continuing U.S. threats of regime change in Tehran and Damascus, ensures that Iran and Syria see little reason to cooperate. Although both governments have dirty hands, the absence of U.S. backing for a multilateral effort to engage them on issues such as border control is puzzling. The bipartisan Iraq Study Group would require the United States to tone down its messianic goals of victory for democracy in Iraq and regional transformation. Instead, it should embrace the stabilization of Iraq in an international context, emphasizing diplomacy rather than military force.

The United States also should reposition itself on other issues where its long-term agenda is suspect and works against our effective leadership of other nations regarding Iraq. We should clearly announce that we do not seek permanent bases. We need temporary facilities for force protection, not for projecting force outside Iraq. We also need to make clear that controlling Iraqi oil is not a U.S. objective, although we want equal treatment for American oil companies.

Finally, we must give substance to the president's 2003 commitment to work for peace between Israel and the Palestinians. At the time, he said he would be as active on this long-festering issue as he had been on Iraq. To date, this promise rings hollow.

David L. Mack was a member of the Iraq Study Group and a deputy assistant secretary of state, and is acting president of the Middle East Institute. His opinions do not reflect the views of the Middle East Institute, which does not take positions on Middle East policy. His e-mail is communications@mideasti.org.
 
MonsterMark said:
Do you personally want the Iraq plan President Bush announced last week to
succeed

Do the Dems want us to lose?

After watching their pathetic performance last night during the State of the Union speech by Bush, I believe so more than ever. What a complete joke they are.
 
MonsterMark said:
Do the Dems want us to lose?

After watching their pathetic performance last night during the State of the Union speech by Bush, I believe so more than ever. What a complete joke they are.

If that type of self-dillusionment helps justify your hate towards the dems, it sounds like a personal problem to me. Thanks for sharing.
 
MonsterMark said:
Do the Dems want us to lose?

After watching their pathetic performance last night during the State of the Union speech by Bush, I believe so more than ever. What a complete joke they are.
Bush started off his speech praising Pelosi as the first woman Speaker, showing his absolute ability to out-class the Democrats, who couldn't publicly say anything positive about him to save their miserable lives.

I've never seen a bigger bunch of phonies. The way the Democrats kissed up to Bush after the speech was sickening when compared to the way they cut him to pieces every day of the week. And when he called for victory, everybody clapped EXCEPT the Democrats, who sat on their hands. It was disgusting.

Afterward, I overheard Dennis Kucinich saying, "God bless you Mr. President." What a lying hypocrite. And Tom Harkin was plying for his autograph. Sheesh. They probably didn't know they were being recorded audially.

Jim Webb did the Democrat Response - I swear, aren't you Dems going to ever get somebody on TV who has any real talent? This guy came across as a buffoon.
 

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