Just bought a 02 LS. The previous owner drove it very little but said there was no thermostat in it. Of course, it took forever to get it up to operating temperature and as such has thrown a code. I drove it a couple hours and it rode great. I have another 5 to 6 hour drive to get back home. Will driving it without a thermostat hurt anything until I get back home to put one in? Also, it is quite strange, but it wants to overheat when idling for a long period of time. Other than that, it runs great.
Driving With No Thermostat
- Thread starter bdj5773
- Start date
Did you not ask the owner why there was no thermostat. Do you think its quite strange that the car is overheating.
Let me guess..... Engine was overheating (apparently still is!) so instead searching for the cause of the condition he removed the thermostat hoping the engine wouldn't overheat.
OP, search for overheat condition. HINT...... Replace all of the plastic cooling system pieces (don't forget the degas bottle) and install the correct thermostat.
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
X2 on this. It's a poorly designed system with parts made from plastic not suited to being used in a cooling system, but once you replace the parts everything will work correctly for 100K miles. Use all Motorcraft parts only unless you want to redo it all in another month. Oh, and being an 02 you have the option of replacing some of the parts with Jaguar aluminum pieces, which won't fail. Someone with a Gen 1 will have to tell you what to get there, but spend the extra on the Jag aluminum and you won't ever have to replace those parts again.
1LoudLS
Dedicated LVC Member
first as mentioned, I would check all of the plastic cooling parts, as failure is way too common of a problem with LSs, after that, if its only when idling, I would check to see if the fan is running properly as the 1st gen hydraulic cooling fan is another high probability of failing part (it may not be spinning fast enough...)
if hes (original owner) been driving it for a while without a Tstat, you're probably fine until you get home, depending on your climate (I've seen a texas member or two run with no Tstat)
kinda makes you wonder how much of the car has been rigged like that from the same person working on it...
if hes (original owner) been driving it for a while without a Tstat, you're probably fine until you get home, depending on your climate (I've seen a texas member or two run with no Tstat)
kinda makes you wonder how much of the car has been rigged like that from the same person working on it...
Ranchero50
Well-Known LVC Member
Most cars will overheat eventually without a thermostat because the coolant doesn't have enough dwell time in the radiator to transfer the heat. Same reason it takes so long to warm up really.
I appreciate everyone's reply. The car is in great shape; you can tell it has been taken care of. I'm not sure why exactly he didn't put a thermostat in though. I have replaced the degas bottle before on an 01 LS. Well, I'm going to give it a try for a 5 to 6 hour drive back to MO from MS. It ran great for more than a couple of hours yesterday on the interstate. Hopefully, I will not have any issues.
lincolnelite
Well-Known LVC Member
it seems to be the industry norm, BMW owners has the same issue as well as Explorers with 4.0 engine. I once worked on my friend's 2006 suzuki forenza and the plastic tee hose just literally crumbled when we tried tightening it when it leaked. It took us a lot of time to find a replacement part (didn't find any) and ended up going to Lowes and replaced it with a brass tee. No problem so far.
Btw having no thermostat is like having an open thermostat, driving on a freeway will cool the engine down and you'll feel no heat. The temp gauge will go up again once you slow down (or in the city/traffic) Might reduce the likelihood of overheating but running an engine cold is not good over time.
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
I dunno, GM pressurized coolant reservoirs aren't known for cracking out every 100K miles. The one on my truck has almost 300K miles on it and is in near new condition. Really, the LS is the first car I've ever had or heard of that does need the entire cooling system replaced every 100K miles.
On the thermostat, the reason for running without one is likely due to the way the thermostat is installed; if they guy bought a thermostat, then opened it up to find the thermostat retaining tabs inside the plastic thermostat housing were snapped, he probably decided to just remove the old thermostat and put the car back together to get it on the road instead of ordering a new thermostat housing. And, as it's a pain to get back into just to replace a housing... I'll bet when you open it up, one or both tabs will be broken. But then once again, since the OP has a Gen 1 he has the option of replacing with Jaguar aluminum parts.
On the thermostat, the reason for running without one is likely due to the way the thermostat is installed; if they guy bought a thermostat, then opened it up to find the thermostat retaining tabs inside the plastic thermostat housing were snapped, he probably decided to just remove the old thermostat and put the car back together to get it on the road instead of ordering a new thermostat housing. And, as it's a pain to get back into just to replace a housing... I'll bet when you open it up, one or both tabs will be broken. But then once again, since the OP has a Gen 1 he has the option of replacing with Jaguar aluminum parts.
Welllll...... The '00 went ~150K before the reservoir started leaking. My '06 has almost 120K and I've just had to do the upper radiator hose. Radiator hoses are a wear item. Don't blame the designers/engineers for a part that was made by a supplier that may have cut corners. The window regulators are a prime example. Some supplier used a cheap plastic part that got brittle in high heat regions instead of a metal piece which caused early failures. Once that piece was made of metal failures have ceased. That aluminum Jag housing is an aftermarket piece; the factory part is still plastic. Compare the Dorman reservoir to the Motorcraft unit. Same thing; Dorman's is inferior.
Maybe Ford needs a tighter reign on its suppliers.....
Perhaps the rad needs cleaning which is not hard to check.
Pull the plastic piece on top of the rad which is very easy to remove and look in there to see if it's plugged up with debris or even a plastic bag or something.
If your rad is plugged up you can clean it with a water hose.
Pull the plastic piece on top of the rad which is very easy to remove and look in there to see if it's plugged up with debris or even a plastic bag or something.
If your rad is plugged up you can clean it with a water hose.
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
Never heard of BMW, I guess. Except with BMW, you have to replace the water pump, radiator, fan clutch, and idlers as well as the reservoir, hoses, thermostat housing, and other plastic cooling system parts. Also, if you ever let it's engine overheat, you'll be replacing it or doing major work to it.
It looks like I created quite the discussion. That's what I've always liked about this forum. Anyway, just made it home after being on the road for over 5 hours. We stopped about half way to grab a bite to eat and had a lot of stop and go traffic and she wanted to overheat on me. As soon as I got back out on the interstate, she ran great. I will put in a TS tomorrow and see what happens. Appreciate all the great responses!
You'll need more than a thermostat. Sounds like your hydraulic fan isn't achieving high speed. Could be the actuator.......
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
Actually, I tend to ignore BMW. I've just never been impressed with them, after renting a few while living in Germany. If I'm looking at German, it's Mercedes, or perhaps Porsche or Audi. I owned a Mercedes while in Germany, and loved it. But, I know other people do like them so I try to just keep my mouth shut on them. I'd not even be saying this about them, except it came up. I do feel justified in complaining about what I see as stupid stuff on the LS though, seeing as I have one.
1LoudLS
Dedicated LVC Member
I'm leaning toward this one.
people dont just remove the Tstat for sh!ts and giggles, there was a reason it was done...
it was most likely due to the over heat issue, i agree that the tstat parts was either a poor attempt at a rig job, or upon disassembly and inspection, damaged was caused and the Tstat couldn't go back in (seen this one first hand...)
You're probably right. I thought about the same thing. Thanks
Easy way to check fan speed is turn AC on, the hyd fan should increase in speed or if you have a OBD11 tester,just run on KEY ON ENG ON self test. The hyd fan will ramp up to high speed.
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
If you determine that the hydro fan is not working, there is a electric fan conversion that can be done to eliminate the hydro-fan that you might want to check into.
Which is cheaper?
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
If the whole system needs to be replaced, or if you can't determine which component is at fault, then conversion to electric is far cheaper.
If you can troubleshoot it down to a single component, such as the actuator, then it would be cheaper to replace that part.
Thanks! I will test to see if the fan spins at higher speeds. Seems someone suggested turning the A/C on and listen for the fan to kick up to a higher speed. Am I correct on this, or do I need to test another way?
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
That should be a good test, but there are some delays. Turn the AC off and then the engine off. Restart with a cold or mostly cool engine. Wait for the idle to kick down. Now turn the AC on, and you should hear the fan speed up. If you have a scan tool that can do KOER tests, then you can just set the fan speed to test it.
If you start car and have the AC turned off, let the car idle for a minute, open hood and listen and/or look at cooling fan. Either have someone or yourself turn on the AC. You should hear and/or see the cooling fan increase in speed. You can also use OBD11 tester if you have one like I mentioned before. This will indicate if actuator, pump and fan are working. The actuator is the easiest and cheapest part to change if thats whats wrong. You can get one at wreckers for $10.00 or new for $140. I got one from wreckers because they do give 90 day warranty where I live , not sure where you are.