E-85 85% ethonal 100 octane

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Cbecker1994Vlll

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I was filling gas back at a town near my home town. and at the station they had this E-85 85% ethonal that has 100 octane. I didn't put it in cuz i had no clue,(and my mark is my baby). I just went with my can of NOS race formula octane boost and 91 octane fuel. But still what would happen if i would have put this in my car. or any input on ethonal and our cars
 
Ethenol is a wonderful octane booster, not so good as a fuel. It also takes more oil energy to produce than it 'saves' in the 10% fuel blends in the midwest. When I can find real gasoline, my car will get close to 24 MPG, with the 10% blend, I come up just short of 22 MPG. I track my mileage very closely and it is very consistant with the differing fuels. It actually works out to a 9% loss in economy running this garbage in my Caprice. But, as the wave of the future, I am stuck with it and the rest of the country will be as well.
Oh..if you vehicle is not designed with the dual fueling system, you cannot run the E-85, it will damage your fueling system.
 
Cbecker1994Vlll said:
whats the highest unleaded octane fuel we can run in our marks
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Anything available, as long as it is unleaded. Your car might run crappier on higher octane fuels, since it will be harder for your engine to burn, and you have no need for it, but it will not damage your engine.

E85 cannot be used in any Lincoln Mark VIII. In order to use E85, the car either has to be built for it, or converted for it. Simply pouring E85 into yur tank will result in a car that no longer runs, plus it will eat up some of your fuel components.

Cars that are E85 compatible have fuel systems designed to accept E85, and the higher volumes of fuel involved (since it takes more E85 to make a set power level than gasoline),and their computers adjust the engine accordingly based on the content of ethanol, able to detect the ethanol content (like if you fill half your tank with E85, and the rest with gas, resulting in a lower mixture).

Ethanol benefits:

Cleaner running engine
Lower emissions

Drawbacks:

Substantially decreased fuel economy
Only for E85 specific cars, or with expensive conversions

There is no performance advantage, unless you run ultra high compression (like 13:1) or a lot of boost (in which you could run more boost without increasing engine detonation).
 
Dominus said:
Anything available, as long as it is unleaded. Your car might run crappier on higher octane fuels, since it will be harder for your engine to burn, and you have no need for it, but it will not damage your engine.
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The long chain molecule known as gasoline is the same no matter what the Octane. The various additives can raise the ignition temp point (to keep it from pre-igniting), but a spark plug generates enough heat to fire off any Octane gasoline and once the reaction starts, the heat generated is well above the higher Octane fuels ability to resist initial burning. Flame propagation (speed of the burn) and energy released will be the same, be it 87 or 93. The only theoretical difference that I am aware of is that as more additives are introduced, they invariably have less energy content than gasoline and, based on weight, there could be less energy per pound available. This would show up in reduced fuel economy, but the percentage difference would need to be tested in a lab to be measurable (exception being a huge amount of foreign material, like the 10% ethonal blends). Power should not really be diminished, as the O2 sensors in a modern engine will result in the injection of more fuel if needed to maintain an ideal mixture and at WOT there is way too much fuel anyway (programmed in for safety).
 
so when i go to the drag strip what octane would you guys recommend. personaly i was going to mix my regular 91 octane (thats all they sell in this lovely wasteland of a state (ks)) with the NOS race formula octane boost, thats what i usually run normally, and my car seems to love it. but i was just going to pre mix it in seprate fuel cans and just add it as i need it at the strip.
anyways back to what i was askingn could some one point me to a fuel brand. i want my car running as optimal as possiable at the track. ya know
 
i used to use bout 10-14 oz of meth. when i fill up in my 96 mk8. nothing happened.
 
Dominus said:
*snip*
Ethanol benefits:

Cleaner running engine
Lower emissions

Drawbacks:

Substantially decreased fuel economy
Only for E85 specific cars, or with expensive conversions

There is no performance advantage, unless you run ultra high compression (like 13:1) or a lot of boost (in which you could run more boost without increasing engine detonation).
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This is wrong. There is significant performance advantage to be had by using E85, even in a naturally aspirated car. Being a hardcore hi-po mustang guy, there has been much talk and testing with this new fuel. Sure, the specific energy is lower, and you consume more of it, but with a motor octane of nearly 105, there are plenty of benefits to be had - if you know how to take advantage of it.

For example, a very good friend of mine had the following combination is his Mustang:

355 cubic inches (4.030 x 3.475)
Trick Flow heads, ported ~10.5:1 CR
Edelbrock Victor EFI intake
Longtubes, full exhaust
Moderate cam, .570, 236 @ .050, 112 LSA
It made 379rwhp/389rwtq naturally aspirated

He went to Tucson, drained the tank, dropped in five gallons of E85, and spent about an hour on the dyno with his twEECer adjusting his air/fuel and timing tables.

With the ONLY difference being the fuel type (E85), and adjustments to his air/fuel and timing tables to take advantage of it, his power output increased to:

404rwhp/407rwtq

You see, the ability add significantly more timing to the car without detonation picked him up 25 rear wheel horsepower. Not bad methinks. The minute this stuff is available in Phoenix, I'm converting my Mustang (422 ci stroker) to run it. The conversion isn't that expensive (relatively), and I already have a stand-alone engine management (AEM) to play with the air/fuel and timing.

Article/Test performend by Trent Kendall (founder of Turbomustangs.com) and Steve Cole, Hayabusa killer - taken from TM.com website:

1000+ rwhp from E85

Turbomustangs.com along with Steve Cole Enterprises Inc (username: Karl Hungus) has completed some preliminary testing with the environmentally friendly, cheaper than 91 Octane, E85 fuel blend.
First off what is E85? E85, is a motor fuel blend of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline to be used in flex-fuel vehicles. Ethanol is alcohol used in transportation fuels. It is a high-octane, liquid fuel, produced by the fermentation of plant sugars. In
the United States, ethanol is typically produced from corn and other grain products, although in the future it may be economically produced from other biomass resources.

Benefits:
It has a motor octane rating of 104-108, it is also quite cold to the touch. It is currently about 1.99 per gallon, while 91 Octane is approximately 3.30 a gallon. E85 is cleaner burning, emitting a lot less greenhouse gasses. It is also a renewable resource. To top it off it is made 100% within the confines of the USA.

Cons:
It takes more of this fuel to create the same energy as regular gasoline. Therefore your car will use more fuel and you will see a decrease of approximately 10-15% in fuel economy. To make big horsepower you will need more fuel pump and more injector. Many people state that the fuel is corrosive and it could have adverse effects on aluminum fuel rails, injector o-rings and fuel lines. But so far in 9 months of testing we have seen no such side effects.

Test Car
1995 Mustang GT street car, 331 cubic inch, custom twin turbo system with twin T70 p-trims w/ .58 AR, T56 tranny, solid roller: 242/236, .600 lift.
Fuel System: 3, 255lph Walbro in line fuel pumps, 160# injectors.
No alky, no nitrous, no ice on the intake, etc.

The first thing we did was add 40% fuel to the fuel map under WOT. We also added about 20% fuel in part throttle areas. We were tuning using a regular gasoline wideband air fuel ratio of 14:1 at part throttle. On the dyno the car made the best and cleanest power at 12:1.

At 6 psi of boost and 35 degrees total timing the car made 575rwhp from 6000rpm until 7500rpm. The power never fell off. We tried less timing but the car didn’t respond well and the power curve was sloppier. At 13psi and about 29 degrees of timing we made 872rwhp. At 20psi and ~24 degrees of timing we made 989rwhp.
At 30 psi and 20 degrees of timing we ended up with 1066rwhp. The fuel injectors were at 75% duty cycle at this power level. Whereas with gasoline they were at about 55%. The fuel pressure was also slightly falling off at the top. The lack of a large power increase from 20-30psi is due to the tiny exhaust housings on this street car.

In total we made 16 dyno pulls and we never heard any detonation, but we did hit fuel cut a few times during testing. The next day the spark plugs were pulled and there may have been slight detonation in 2 of the cylinders because the porcelain was speckled. However the car still runs fine. This is definitely a very impressive fuel.
I also want to point out how impressed I am with this solid roller setup. Sure it is slightly noisier than my tiny hydro cam. But you can’t argue with that sick power curve. At all boost levels the car makes peak power at 6000rpm and holds it solid until 7500rpm, I am sure it would pull up to 8000rpm no problem. Steve has also tried a larger hydraulic cam to get the same results but it just didn’t work. The cam was a comp extreme energy hyd roller: 248 @ .050 on int and exh, 114 lsa. The car also had larger 74mm turbos at the time but the power would peak at 6500rpm and drop like a rock, even with expensive valve springs. With the new small solid roller cam the car even lugs along at 1500rpm no problem and idles fine at 900rpm.

To learn more about E85 and to check for stations in your area please go here:
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/e85toolkit/e85_fuel.html

PLEASE CLICK HERE TO VIEW THE DYNO RUNS IN .JPG FORMAT:
http://www.turbomustangs.com/techarticles/stevenew95/coleruns.jpg

Video:
http://www.turbomustangs.com/techarticles/stevenew95/stevedyno.wmv
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E85 is the sh!t.

Paul.
 
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