Euro ‘crisis’ masks global recovery

04SCTLS

Dedicated LVC Member
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
3,188
Reaction score
7
Location
Lockport
Euro ‘crisis’ masks global recovery

http://www.thestar.com/business/article/807322--olive-don-t-worry-euro-crisis-masks-global-recovery
There’s a little less to the current volatility in financial markets than meets the eye.
Somehow an isolated Greek fiscal crisis has been conflated into a looming global double-dip recession and a collapse in stocks and bonds that will have North American investors fearful again of reading their RSP and 401k statements.
“It’s not just a European problem, it’s the U.S., Japan and the U.K. right now,” Ian Kelson, a bond fund manager at the London unit of U.S. money manager T. Rowe Price, said of the admitted shambles of Greek public finances. “It’s across the board.”
But what, exactly, is across the board?
Mostly good news, as it happens.

Canada and Australia have come through the Great Recession of 2008-09 with flying colours. The industrial revolutions in China and India continue apace. And the U.S. is in the midst of one of the fastest and most powerful economic turnarounds in history, posting a remarkable 11-per-cent swing from “negative” to positive GDP growth in just 14 months.
Canada’s jobless rate is easing. The U.S. on Friday recorded a second straight month of net new job creation, or 290,000 net new jobs, the biggest jump in four years. U.S. corporations are reporting stunning profit gains that no forecaster would have thought possible a year ago.

Cassandras in search of a compelling narrative regard as signs of imminent catastrophe the euro’s 18-per-cent drop against the U.S. dollar; a weakening in commodities prices; a tripling over the past two years of the average European nation’s ratio of deficits to GDP; and the weekend’s emergency summits of the 16 eurozone heads of government and of finance ministers from all 27 European Union (EU) nations to strategize a way out of a pan-European debt crisis.

You can just as easily take from those same indicators that the euro’s plunge has made German, British and Dutch exports more competitive in the lucrative U.S. market. That cheaper European imports and crude oil have reduced North Americans’ cost of living.
And that after months of dawdling over Athens’ wretched public finances, European leaders have acted boldly in approving a $142-billion U.S. bailout of Greece. And for good measure, the eurozone members and the International Monetary Fund agreed to create a huge, $968-billion fund to assist eurozone nations in fiscal distress.

Yes, many of Europe’s economies are running uncomfortably high public deficits – though some major economies like Germany and Italy are actually in better monetary shape than the U.S.
That was the price European and North American governments paid for massive stimulus spending to prevent the Great Recession from becoming a Great Depression. And for rescuing a global banking system from total meltdown. In all but a very few cases, like Greece and Iceland, the resulting increased debt is manageable. It will become more so with a return to sustained, robust GDP growth.

The global economy is not Greece, which accounts for a mere 2 per cent of European GDP. The chronic fiscal mismanagement, unaffordable social programs and rampant corruption in that cradle of Western civilization are a textbook example of how not to run an economy.
It will be seen in time that ripples, not shock waves, are radiating from Athens. From Portugal to Latvia, a Europe that has been living beyond its means, much as the U.S. has for the past decade, is now imposing harsh austerity measures to restore fiscal order.
All three major parties contesting Britain’s May 6 general election campaigned on pain, not sugar-coating the government spending cuts and tax increases on the near horizon.

Financial markets notoriously overreact to real and imagined dramatic news. Stocks, commodities and the euro have been overdue for a healthy pullback, or “correction” in Street parlance. And the specter of sovereign debt defaults – no matter how remote a prospect – gave trigger-happy traders the reason they sought to abruptly devalue everything.
There’s an obvious silver lining to Europe’s current debt challenges. Eurozone members have learned, finally, of the price to be paid for having reneged on their pledge when the eurozone was created in the late 1990s to keep deficits to below 3 per cent of GDP.

They also have reason to transcend lingering national parochialism and confer on the European Central Bank the same sweeping powers of crisis intervention of which the Bank of Canada, the U.S. Federal Reserve Board and the Reserve Bank of Australia are capable.

And that emergency summit of European leaders on the weekend? Widely perceived as an act of desperation, it was in fact a renewed resolve to strength a European economic union that has been under construction for generations, and whose evolution has coincided with an unprecedented 65 years of peace among Europe’s major powers.
That’s a legacy the continent’s leaders have every reason to extend. And they will

______________________________________________________________

More alleged good news for the country.
Perhaps disaster is not imminent :p and the next few years to at least 2012 will be good ones.
 
Euro ‘crisis’ masks global recovery

http://www.thestar.com/business/article/807322--olive-don-t-worry-euro-crisis-masks-global-recovery
There’s a little less to the current volatility in financial markets than meets the eye.
Somehow an isolated Greek fiscal crisis has been conflated into a looming global double-dip recession and a collapse in stocks and bonds that will have North American investors fearful again of reading their RSP and 401k statements.
“It’s not just a European problem, it’s the U.S., Japan and the U.K. right now,” Ian Kelson, a bond fund manager at the London unit of U.S. money manager T. Rowe Price, said of the admitted shambles of Greek public finances. “It’s across the board.”
But what, exactly, is across the board?
Mostly good news, as it happens.

Canada and Australia have come through the Great Recession of 2008-09 with flying colours. The industrial revolutions in China and India continue apace. And the U.S. is in the midst of one of the fastest and most powerful economic turnarounds in history, posting a remarkable 11-per-cent swing from “negative” to positive GDP growth in just 14 months.
Canada’s jobless rate is easing. The U.S. on Friday recorded a second straight month of net new job creation, or 290,000 net new jobs, the biggest jump in four years. U.S. corporations are reporting stunning profit gains that no forecaster would have thought possible a year ago.

Cassandras in search of a compelling narrative regard as signs of imminent catastrophe the euro’s 18-per-cent drop against the U.S. dollar; a weakening in commodities prices; a tripling over the past two years of the average European nation’s ratio of deficits to GDP; and the weekend’s emergency summits of the 16 eurozone heads of government and of finance ministers from all 27 European Union (EU) nations to strategize a way out of a pan-European debt crisis.

You can just as easily take from those same indicators that the euro’s plunge has made German, British and Dutch exports more competitive in the lucrative U.S. market. That cheaper European imports and crude oil have reduced North Americans’ cost of living.
And that after months of dawdling over Athens’ wretched public finances, European leaders have acted boldly in approving a $142-billion U.S. bailout of Greece. And for good measure, the eurozone members and the International Monetary Fund agreed to create a huge, $968-billion fund to assist eurozone nations in fiscal distress.

Yes, many of Europe’s economies are running uncomfortably high public deficits – though some major economies like Germany and Italy are actually in better monetary shape than the U.S.
That was the price European and North American governments paid for massive stimulus spending to prevent the Great Recession from becoming a Great Depression. And for rescuing a global banking system from total meltdown. In all but a very few cases, like Greece and Iceland, the resulting increased debt is manageable. It will become more so with a return to sustained, robust GDP growth.

The global economy is not Greece, which accounts for a mere 2 per cent of European GDP. The chronic fiscal mismanagement, unaffordable social programs and rampant corruption in that cradle of Western civilization are a textbook example of how not to run an economy.
It will be seen in time that ripples, not shock waves, are radiating from Athens. From Portugal to Latvia, a Europe that has been living beyond its means, much as the U.S. has for the past decade, is now imposing harsh austerity measures to restore fiscal order.
All three major parties contesting Britain’s May 6 general election campaigned on pain, not sugar-coating the government spending cuts and tax increases on the near horizon.

Financial markets notoriously overreact to real and imagined dramatic news. Stocks, commodities and the euro have been overdue for a healthy pullback, or “correction” in Street parlance. And the specter of sovereign debt defaults – no matter how remote a prospect – gave trigger-happy traders the reason they sought to abruptly devalue everything.
There’s an obvious silver lining to Europe’s current debt challenges. Eurozone members have learned, finally, of the price to be paid for having reneged on their pledge when the eurozone was created in the late 1990s to keep deficits to below 3 per cent of GDP.

They also have reason to transcend lingering national parochialism and confer on the European Central Bank the same sweeping powers of crisis intervention of which the Bank of Canada, the U.S. Federal Reserve Board and the Reserve Bank of Australia are capable.

And that emergency summit of European leaders on the weekend? Widely perceived as an act of desperation, it was in fact a renewed resolve to strength a European economic union that has been under construction for generations, and whose evolution has coincided with an unprecedented 65 years of peace among Europe’s major powers.
That’s a legacy the continent’s leaders have every reason to extend. And they will

______________________________________________________________

More alleged good news for the country.
Perhaps disaster is not imminent :p and the next few years to at least 2012 will be good ones.


Good lord, just stop...
 
Good lord, just stop...

So greetings Kstills.

Are you a patriot or a partizan?

Citizen or republican/democrat first.

Or do you want to see the country suffer just so Obama doesn't get re elected.

This type of news must spoil it for you.

He surely will if this continues in reality.
 
So greetings Kstills.

Are you a patriot or a partizan?

Citizen or republican/democrat first.

Or do you want to see the country suffer just so Obama doesn't get re elected.

This type of news must spoil it for you.

He surely will if this continues in reality.

It takes little time or effort to disprove any hypothesis of a global recovery.

Australia and Canada have benefitted from the inane assumption by the Chinese that if they were to buy up commodities at the bottom of the recession, they would be in great shape when the recovery in the rest of the world happens.

So why are the Chinese talking about another ~500billion dollar stimulus? Why is the Chinese stock market crashing atm?

The ECB pledges a Trillion (with a T!!) dollars to support the Euro, and it's down the day after the pledge. You are currently witnessing the end of the Euro as a monetary store of value, and within the next few years, you'll see the EU break apart along north-south lines. The immediate result of the fall of the Euro will be non-competitive exports from the US to Europe, so any projected profits made by US companies will have to be revised downwards.

The second wave of the mortgage crisis is beginning to crest in the US. I'll confess I'm not sure how it plays out, but it would boggle the mind to believe that the banks can paper over this next phase, after not even beginning to recognize the losses from the first phase. The Fed is essentially out of money (ha!) so it is unclear who picks up the losses. Oh, and anyone who bought a house over the last year and a half is :q:q:q:qed.

Demographics are working to kill off the Japanese. Sooner then later, they'll have to recognize their fiscal irresponsiblity by selling their debt into the open market.

So no, I don't believe that there is a 'recovery'. I believe that governments around the world have sold out the future generations to keep the status quo going today.

That has never worked, will never work, and won't work now.

As for Obama, he's an economic moron, surrounded by folks who are either culpable in this disaster (Geithner), academic clowns (Summers) or academics who sold out their principles to become part of the team (Romer). The only one with any sense is Volcker, and no one will give him the time of day.

Which speaks volumes about Obama's ability to choose talent. As in act like an executive. As in he has no experience for the job, which is why he spent a year dividing the country over HC reform, during a depression, and didn't do a goddam thing about creating jobs.

One and done.
 
BTW, both Australia and Canada have a massive housing bubble going.

Both say 'it can't happen here'.

I lol @ the coming crash.

And gold is up 23 bucks this morning. Thats 57 bucks in the last three days. After the ECB pledged a trillion bucks to support the Euro.

Recovery spelled with a Great 'D'.
 
Are you a patriot or a partisan?

Citizen or republican/democrat first.

You are the master of the false dichotomy, apparently.

Or do you want to see the country suffer just so Obama doesn't get re elected.

And who wants this?

Any more snarky insinuations?
 
BTW, both Australia and Canada have a massive housing bubble going.

Both say 'it can't happen here'.

I lol @ the coming crash.

And gold is up 23 bucks this morning. Thats 57 bucks in the last three days. After the ECB pledged a trillion bucks to support the Euro.

Recovery spelled with a Great 'D'.


Canada is in much better shape than the US having successfully cut government spending.
Also the banks don't have and aren't allowed the cowboy wild west mentality prevalent in the US.
I think your predictions are premature.

http://www.moneyshow.com/investing/articles.asp?aid=tptp042910-19580


Following Canada's lead


Last month, when I spoke at the Vancouver MoneyShow, I felt a positive change in attitude as soon as I crossed the border. While there seems to be universal pessimism about the future of the United States, Canadians are upbeat, and not just because they won the gold medal in Olympic hockey.
Unlike the United States, Canada has its act together. Its major banks did not fail during the finan­cial crisis of 2008, and the Canadian dollar now is selling again at a par against the buck.
Yes, Canada had its own stimulus package and is running federal deficits, but among industrial nations, Canada has one of the lowest debt ratios to [gross domestic product].
The Heritage Economic Freedom Index for 2010 gave this report on Canada: “Elaborate social and welfare state programs swell overall government expenditures. Government spending also has increased slightly due to implementation of a significant stimulus package. However, good fiscal management and federal budget surpluses have enabled the economy to undertake stimulus measures without undermining fiscal soundness and long-term economic competitiveness.”
Michael Walker, founder of the influential free-market think tank, the Fraser Institute, in Vancouver, told me that in 1994, Canada faced a major financial crisis similar to the one we are facing today. Canada was run­ning huge deficits, inflation and government spending were getting out of control, and the Canadian dollar was falling rapidly. The Fraser Institute held a major conference on the Canadian fiscal crisis, highlighted by a talk by John Fund, editorial writer for The Wall Street Journal.
He followed up with an editorial in the Journal on the “Canadian peso,” and the Canadian dollar fell three and a half cents in one day. The collapse of the “loo­nie” caught the attention of the prime minister and other government officials, and they decided to act. “Enough is enough,” he said.
During the next few years, they cut the deficit and the size of government from 53% of GDP to today’s 40%. Now, Heritage’s Economic Freedom Index shows Canada ahead of the United States. And while I was there, the loonie hit par­ity with the US dollar.
We are profiting from Canada’s success sto­ry by investing in Enerplus Resources (NYSE: ERF) to take advantage of Canada’s stable policies, and from higher oil prices (now more than $80 a barrel). The well-run Canadian oil and gas trust rose last month, benefiting from a rising Canadian dollar and higher oil prices.
Enerplus maintains about 12 years of reserves, debt is modest, and it has a payout ratio of 61% from earnings (thus making its 18 cents per month payout sustainable). It has accumulated enough tax credits and deductions to offset all tax liability for the next three years. (ERF closed below $25 Monday and yielded 8.8%—Editor.)
Following Canada’s Lead
Following Canada’s Lead
 
Canada is in much better shape than the US having successfully cut government spending.
Also the banks don't have and aren't allowed the cowboy wild west mentality prevalent in the US.
I think your predictions are premature.

http://www.moneyshow.com/investing/articles.asp?aid=tptp042910-19580


Following Canada's lead


Last month, when I spoke at the Vancouver MoneyShow, I felt a positive change in attitude as soon as I crossed the border. While there seems to be universal pessimism about the future of the United States, Canadians are upbeat, and not just because they won the gold medal in Olympic hockey.
Unlike the United States, Canada has its act together. Its major banks did not fail during the finan:qcial crisis of 2008, and the Canadian dollar now is selling again at a par against the buck.
Yes, Canada had its own stimulus package and is running federal deficits, but among industrial nations, Canada has one of the lowest debt ratios to [gross domestic product].
The Heritage Economic Freedom Index for 2010 gave this report on Canada: “Elaborate social and welfare state programs swell overall government expenditures. Government spending also has increased slightly due to implementation of a significant stimulus package. However, good fiscal management and federal budget surpluses have enabled the economy to undertake stimulus measures without undermining fiscal soundness and long-term economic competitiveness.”
Michael Walker, founder of the influential free-market think tank, the Fraser Institute, in Vancouver, told me that in 1994, Canada faced a major financial crisis similar to the one we are facing today. Canada was run:qning huge deficits, inflation and government spending were getting out of control, and the Canadian dollar was falling rapidly. The Fraser Institute held a major conference on the Canadian fiscal crisis, highlighted by a talk by John Fund, editorial writer for The Wall Street Journal.
He followed up with an editorial in the Journal on the “Canadian peso,” and the Canadian dollar fell three and a half cents in one day. The collapse of the “loo:qnie” caught the attention of the prime minister and other government officials, and they decided to act. “Enough is enough,” he said.
During the next few years, they cut the deficit and the size of government from 53% of GDP to today’s 40%. Now, Heritage’s Economic Freedom Index shows Canada ahead of the United States. And while I was there, the loonie hit par:qity with the US dollar.
We are profiting from Canada’s success sto:qry by investing in Enerplus Resources (NYSE: ERF) to take advantage of Canada’s stable policies, and from higher oil prices (now more than $80 a barrel). The well-run Canadian oil and gas trust rose last month, benefiting from a rising Canadian dollar and higher oil prices.
Enerplus maintains about 12 years of reserves, debt is modest, and it has a payout ratio of 61% from earnings (thus making its 18 cents per month payout sustainable). It has accumulated enough tax credits and deductions to offset all tax liability for the next three years. (ERF closed below $25 Monday and yielded 8.8%—Editor.)
Following Canada’s Lead
Following Canada’s Lead

Perhaps.

We will see.
 
You are the master of the false dichotomy, apparently.



And who wants this?

Any more snarky insinuations?

Just retorting to the slightly cryptic

Good Lord Just Stop

And don't give me that snarky stuff.
Rush says he wants Obama to fail and the republicans will take every opportunity to try and help that along.

Obama may be a dolt in your guys eyes but he seems to be a lucky one.
You dismiss him too easily.

He could be Malcolm McDowell in Royal Flash, a delightful little movie where Malcolm plays a coward in 1870 Germany who is the only survivor of a firefight.
While cowering from the enemy a wall collapses on them and he gets a medal for bravery.
Then he gets involved with Oliver Reed playing Bismark who due to an uncanny resemblance has him masquerade as to marry a beautiful duchess Britt Ekland so he can control her province. He calls a her lovely piece of tumble.
When things go wrong he finds himself escaping via the European wars, in which his cowardliness gets mistaken for military bravery.
Great fun. Check it out sometime.
 
Just retorting to the slightly cryptic



And don't give me that snarky stuff.
Rush says he wants Obama to fail and the republicans will take every opportunity to try and help that along.

Obama may be a dolt in your guys eyes but he seems to be a lucky one.
You dismiss him too easily.

He could be Malcolm McDowell in Royal Flash, a delightful little movie where Malcolm plays a coward in 1870 Germany who is the only survivor of a firefight.
While cowering from the enemy a wall collapses on them and he gets a medal for bravery.
Then he gets involved with Oliver Reed playing Bismark who due to an uncanny resemblance has him masquerade as to marry a beautiful duchess Britt Ekland so he can control her province. He calls a her lovely piece of tumble.
When things go wrong he finds himself escaping via the European wars, in which his cowardliness gets mistaken for military bravery.
Great fun. Check it out sometime.

Snarky?

Moi?

I could care less what Rush has to say about Obama, it was your point about how great things are that made me post that.
 
Snarky?

Moi?

I could care less what Rush has to say about Obama, it was your point about how great things are that made me post that.


Shag called my comment "Snarky"
Sorry I should have refered to him for that response.

I didn't say things are great yet just the facts that support that they are getting better and not worse.
 
Just retorting to the slightly cryptic

By perpetuating lies and misdirection? Grow. Up.

Rush says he wants Obama to fail and the republicans will take every opportunity to try and help that along.

Wanting Obama to fail does not mean wanting the country to fail. However, you implied as much when you drew those false dichotomies.

In fact, if you actually took the time to understand Limbaugh's viewpoint (which you clearly haven't) or understand the broader philosophical viewpoint that claim extends from, wanting Obama to fail means wanting the country to succeed.

But that would involve critical thought and intellectual integrity, both of which which you have aptly demonstrated you are incapable of.
 
I didn't say things are great yet just the facts that support that they are getting better and not worse.

And in the process of doing that, you misrepresent those with opposing views in order to simply dismiss them.
 
And in the process of doing that, you misrepresent those with opposing views in order to simply dismiss them.


I realize that as a partizan any success Obama can claim deserved or only lucky or coincidental is a frustrating setback to your opinions.

Limbaugh's view that Obama's failure is a success for the country is his opinion to which he's completely entitled to.

It is based on his idea of what America is, was and should continue to be and shared by those of the same demographic as him.
 
And IMO some conservatives are more worried about the continuation of their "way of life" than they are about the general wellbeing of the whole country.

Hence my partizan over patriot quip.

Like some people have answered to how's that Hopey Changey thing
going.

Quite well thank you.

Obama got elected,helped save the economy from collapsing, passed a historic albeit flawed health care bill and now the economy is staring to show real recovery just in time for the 2012 elections.
He's putting his mark on the SCOTUS and there's nothing you guys can do about it except be upset.
The next step is financial reform.
Myself I'd rather see a VAT than an increase in income taxes to pay for our burdens.
I think it's inevitable.
At least everyone would pay something instead of getting a free ride.
 
And IMO some conservatives are more worried about the continuation of their "way of life" than they are about the general wellbeing of the whole country.

Hence my partizan over patriot quip.

Like some people have answered to how's that Hopey Changey thing
going.

Quite well thank you.

Obama got elected,helped save the economy from collapsing, passed a historic albeit flawed health care bill and now the economy is staring to show real recovery just in time for the 2012 elections.
He's putting his mark on the SCOTUS and there's nothing you guys can do about it except be upset.
The next step is financial reform.
Myself I'd rather see a VAT than an increase in income taxes to pay for our burdens.
I think it's inevitable.
At least everyone would pay something instead of getting a free ride.

You make the observation that 'some conservatives' want to preserve their way of life, and at the same time opine that Obama helped save the economy from collapsing. Which, I gather, you applaud.

You do that with a straight face, or as a joke? :)
 
You make the observation that 'some conservatives' want to preserve their way of life, and at the same time opine that Obama helped save the economy from collapsing. Which, I gather, you applaud.

You do that with a straight face, or as a joke? :)

And are you unhappy that the economy didn't collapse?

I don't see where you think these 2 points constitute a joke.

I'm caucasian but I think the country is slowly moving into a post white christian phase based on demographics immigration and declining white birth rates.

We're becoming more european and cosmopolitan and short of having lots of babies there's nothing you can do about this other than accept it.

Sarah Palin can lead a "revolt" and talk about her wish that the bible be the basis of the law of the land but I don't think she and the Tea Partiers will get anywhere beyond merely being an entertaining side show unless the economy tanks for the 2012 election.

The good old days of the 50's will never be here again if they ever were that good in reality.
 
I realize that as a partisan any success Obama can claim deserved or only lucky or coincidental is a frustrating setback to your opinions.

What "success" has he had that somehow vindicates his ideological point of view?

It seems you are simply throwing out more cheap rationalizations to dismiss someone you don't want to consider.

It is based on his idea of what America is, was and should continue to be and shared by those of the same demographic as him.

What "demographic" is that?

And IMO some conservatives are more worried about the continuation of their "way of life" than they are about the general wellbeing of the whole country.

Hence my partisan over patriot quip.

So, your false dichotomy is justified by a rephrasing of the same false dichotomy?

Obama got elected,helped save the economy from collapsing, passed a historic albeit flawed health care bill and now the economy is staring to show real recovery just in time for the 2012 elections.

Do you have anything other then mere assertion that he "helped save the economy from collapsing"? What about the recovery? Those are both HIGHLY debatable claims and you simply assert them as fact.
 
And are you unhappy that the economy didn't collapse?

I don't see where you think these 2 points constitute a joke.

I'll leave out the rest of your post, because quite frankly I have no idea what you were talking about.

Your claim was 'some conservatives' wanted to preserve the status quo (paraphrasing) and that Obama prevented the status quo from collapsing (paraphrasing).

So, we conservatives should be happy?

The joke being, obviously, that a lefty did exactly what you accuse the conservatives of wanting to have happen. :rolleyes:

As for whether or not the collapse has been prevented, I'm in the 'it's still going to happen' camp.
 
Do you have anything other then mere assertion that he "helped save the economy from collapsing"? What about the recovery? Those are both HIGHLY debatable claims and you simply assert them as fact.



The "proof" is in the pudding.
His actions may have done nothing that changed the situation but things appear to be looking better and he gets the credit in the mind of the average voter because he is president.

You completely dismiss that he's been a lucky guy.
 
I'll leave out the rest of your post, because quite frankly I have no idea what you were talking about.

Your claim was 'some conservatives' wanted to preserve the status quo (paraphrasing) and that Obama prevented the status quo from collapsing (paraphrasing).

So, we conservatives should be happy?

The joke being, obviously, that a lefty did exactly what you accuse the conservatives of wanting to have happen. :rolleyes:

As for whether or not the collapse has been prevented, I'm in the 'it's still going to happen' camp.

The status quo wasn't working and led up to the recession.
Loose banking and lending rules encouraged recklessness.
Your comparison is too broad and a little too clever.

Well if the collapse happens then the debt and all the pensions and SS and Medicare benefits we're on the hook for will get "marked down" while real estate and real assets will increase in dollar value.
 
The status quo wasn't working and led up to the recession.
Loose banking and lending rules encouraged recklessness.
Your comparison is too broad and a little too clever.

Well if the collapse happens then the debt and all the pensions and SS and Medicare benefits we're on the hook for will get "marked down" while real estate and real assets will increase in dollar value.

While I agree (and remain confused), the status quo is the status quo, working or not.

Obama has saved a failing system, is what you're saying....:eek:
 
While I agree (and remain confused), the status quo is the status quo, working or not.

Obama has saved a failing system, is what you're saying....:eek:

The situation has a life of it's own beyond what Obama and government can do.
Obama's actions may or may not be the cause of or have influenced only slightly the saving, but in politics he's allowed to take credit that the economy hasn't collapsed because he's done "something" ie pumping money in to stimulate spending and respending on his watch.
After the "saving" come the "reforms" to try and fix the "failing" system.
So he's not preserving the status quo only salvaging it and "fixing" it.
If the economy were to collapse he would get the blame for that, deserved or not.
 
The situation has a life of it's own beyond what Obama and government can do.
Obama's actions may or may not be the cause of or have influenced only slightly the saving, but in politics he's allowed to take credit that the economy hasn't collapsed because he's done "something" ie pumping money in to stimulate spending and respending on his watch.

If we sat down and discussed the issue, I think we would be closer to agreement than we are apart.


After the "saving" come the "reforms" to try and fix the "failing" system.
So he's not preserving the status quo only salvaging it and "fixing" it.
If the economy were to collapse he would get the blame for that, deserved or not.


This is where we diverge.

As I stated before, the cast of characters that Obama has surrounded himself with, coupled with his own naivte, guarantees a bad outcome wrt reform.

And remember, he's the lefty, not the conservative. ;)
 
If we sat down and discussed the issue, I think we would be closer to agreement than we are apart.





This is where we diverge.

As I stated before, the cast of characters that Obama has surrounded himself with, coupled with his own naivte, guarantees a bad outcome wrt reform.

And remember, he's the lefty, not the conservative. ;)

Well then the "Hope" is that Obama's dumb luck will hold out and his administration will succeed despite itself. :D
 

Members online

No members online now.
Back
Top