Fellow Conservative political contributors

[MonsterMark]

Hey guys on the right. We need to regroup and discuss some issues. Please PM me with a time that you may be able to attend a chat session and I'll set it up so most of us can attend.

It seems there is a little too much conflict at this point in the forum and not everybody is enjoying themselves the way they are entitled to.

I would like to have just the guys on the right join in this group chat discussion so we can work out a way to communicate that gets our points across without alienating our fellow brethren on the left.

We need to be able to have civil discourse which explores all facets of an issue without the heat being turned up too high and making people feel uncomfortable.

Help me out. Let's do a chat session and come to an agreement. Thanks.

PM me a time that will work.

 

[Vitas]

It seems there is a little too much conflict at this point in the forum and not everybody is enjoying themselves the way they are entitled to.

I think that the key to "these" kind of issues being debated is that people, from both sides, need to discuss in a logical, and factual, manner.

Neither side is 100% correct about anything. Both sides keep each other in check. That is our system. Perhaps it would be even better if there were a third party to keep both existant sides in check.

But, I have to tell you, what really ticks me off is when one side, usually Republicans, spend a considerable amount of time presenting a cogent point of view, and the other side responds with, only, "oh, your guy is stupid."

How can you possibly have a civil debate with that kind of attitude?

 

[Joeychgo]

IMO - its simple - debate and criticize the issue, not the person.

Name calling is completely uncalled for IMO.

Think of it this way. Sitting in your local coffee shop, you wouldnt tell someone they were stupid - you might say the idea was, but you wouldnt call a person stupid to their face, thats just plain rude. Its uncalled for, be it face to face or behind the protective curtain of the computer keyboard.

 

[Vitas]

IMO - its simple - debate and criticize the issue, not the person.
Think of it this way. Sitting in your local coffee shop, you wouldnt tell someone they were stupid - you might say the idea was, but you wouldnt call a person stupid to their face, thats just plain rude. Its uncalled for, be it face to face or behind the protective curtain of the computer keyboard.

Yes. If they did, they would be buying you beers for the rest of the night.

-lol-

 

[fossten]

I think that the key to "these" kind of issues being debated is that people, from both sides, need to discuss in a logical, and factual, manner.

Neither side is 100% correct about anything. Both sides keep each other in check. That is our system. Perhaps it would be even better if there were a third party to keep both existant sides in check.

But, I have to tell you, what really ticks me off is when one side, usually Republicans, spend a considerable amount of time presenting a cogent point of view, and the other side responds with, only, "oh, your guy is stupid."

How can you possibly have a civil debate with that kind of attitude?

Or, more often, they call you or me stupid.

 

[Vitas]

Or, more often, they call you or me stupid.

Either way, I'll take the free beers. HAHAHA

 

[RB3]

IMO - its simple - debate and criticize the issue, not the person.

Name calling is completely uncalled for IMO.

Think of it this way. Sitting in your local coffee shop, you wouldnt tell someone they were stupid - you might say the idea was, but you wouldnt call a person stupid to their face, thats just plain rude. Its uncalled for, be it face to face or behind the protective curtain of the computer keyboard.

Joey: Do you realize that the infantile cartoon of our President that you attach to all your posts is a form of name calling? When you include this cartoon, you are criticizing the person, not the issue.

 

[MAllen82]

*owned*

HAHA, I really just wanted an excuse to use the owned emoticon, even though I don't think it's entirely appropriate here. :Beer

 

[Kbob]

So when are we gonna do this?

 

[barry2952]

Joey: Do you realize that the infantile cartoon of our President that you attach to all your posts is a form of name calling? When you include this cartoon, you are criticizing the person, not the issue.

Lets clarify this. This is my understanding of the rules as Bryan and I have discussed them.

It's OK to rip on public and political figures but it's not OK to rip on each other. If I wish to call GWB stupid I'm entitled to do so, it's my opinion. If you want to say that Liberals are stupid, that's your opinion. If you say that I am stupid, that's bad form.

We all might be better off if we simply state IMO or IMHO as a preface to our statements. As I stated in an earlier post, an opinion can't be right or wrong. By definition an opinion is just an opinion and we are all entitled to them.

We also might not want to use smileys to denote sarcasm. They can be misinterpreted. Sarcasm, in general, doesn't translate well to the written word and has been cause for some big battles here.

Bryan and I have been in contact to try to tone things down here so that our ideas get expressed in a logical manner. This is not a battle ground. We need to listen to each other. Bryan has changed my views on some subjects as has Kbob and others. Freefaller has opened my eyes many times. I hope that I have presented some arguments that have made people think about an opposing view point.

I'm not out to change your views. I am simply stating my case so that there is a basis of understanding. We can agree to disagree as Bryan and I have many times. What we have learned is that we can respect each other without agreeing with each other. It's worked for us. We have found that we have more in common that our superficial ideologies would let you believe.

 

[MonsterMark]

So when are we gonna do this?

How about Saturday night at 9:00 EST in chat? Righties only so we can express ourselves freely. If we don't get a good showing then we will try for one of the worknights next week.

Send a PM if you are in for tonight or not.

 

[RB3]

Lets clarify this. This is my understanding of the rules as Bryan and I have discussed them.

It's OK to rip on public and political figures but it's not OK to rip on each other. If I wish to call GWB stupid I'm entitled to do so, it's my opinion. If you want to say that Liberals are stupid, that's your opinion. If you say that I am stupid, that's bad form.
(end quote)


I don't know what the "rules" might say, but it's not OK with me. When you start with sophomoric cartoons and calling the President "stupid," you are setting the tone for an acrimonious debate to follow. It is this name calling in general which leads quickly to name calling in particular. Raising the level of civility will require raising the level of intelligence in the posts.

 

[barry2952]

You are entitled to your opinion. If you are offended by this format you need to address your concerns to Joeychicago and MonsterMark. They are at both ends of the political spectrum and they are the Administrators so they get to choose the format. Forums of this nature are not a democracy. They have well established the desired level of acrimony long before you came along. No one is forcing you to participate.

When I first got here I had the same complaints. While not a big fan of John Kerry I voted for him anyway. It was the first time I voted for a Democrat. I was horribly put off by many of the ways that Bryan and others depicted Kerry. I was told to grow a thicker skin.

Stick around. I believe you will see the civility bar raised a few notches. If not, many of us will be gone.

 

[MonsterMark]

I believe you will see the civility bar raised a few notches. If not, many of us will be gone.

Man I hope I don't have to play with myself.

RB3, I agree with you about respect for the Presidency.

In the last 1-1/2 years, since the board was started, I have deleted (I think 3 posts) that whole time. I believe in free speech and hate boards that are heavily moderated. I expect the guys that contribute here to settle their own disputes like adults. That said, things do get heated in here. I myself tend to try to turn up the heat. I find it much more interesting. If everyone that participates has a thick skin, then people can have fun. If you don't take everything seriously, then you can really have fun.

All I ever ask is if you give, be willing to receive and keep your comments non-personal. Nobody likes slurs and hurling and thankfully we have had little of that here. This is not a high-brow political forum with a bunch of guys wearing bow-ties facing off against tree-huggers. We are just a bunch of guys who own either a Lincoln or a Cadillac, or both. We use this forum to 'stretch our legs' once in a while.

I personally do not like going on political forums. Way too dry for me. Most of them are either left devoted or right devoted with the guys preaching to the choir. That is what I like about this place. It is not all left or right. It is not quite 50-50 but the guys on the left do a good job of keeping up and keeping us entertained.

Hopefully they can recruit a few more bodies.

Anyway, welcome, have fun, and don't take things too seriously. Believe me, I think you will find the place a great place to hang out but just remember to bring the thick skin with you.

 

[barry2952]

Man I hope I don't have to play with myself.

RB3, I agree with you about respect for the Presidency.

That would cut both ways. Bryan is know for his distain of Hilary. Some of his posts have been truly tasteless. Should she be elected (God forbid!) will he show respect for the Presidency? I doubt it.

Like Bryan said. If you're willing to dish it out you've got to be willing to take it. Your boy is not perfect and gives us all the fuel we'll ever need.

You'll notice that I always spell President with a capital "P" because I do have respect for the office. I just have no respect for GWB.

 

[Gruuvin8]

I don't know what the "rules" might say, but it's not OK with me. When you start with sophomoric cartoons and calling the President "stupid," you are setting the tone for an acrimonious debate to follow. It is this name calling in general which leads quickly to name calling in particular. Raising the level of civility will require raising the level of intelligence in the posts.

:I but you cant raise someone's intelligence for them

but then on the other hand since were all so polarized on issues and certain issues have a truth side and a "fabricated" side.... it's hard not to call a spade a spade. people who continue to believe in a story based on fabrications are only getting off easy by being called stupid.... i can think of some much harsher and more fitting words. sometimes political correctness SUX!! (btw, im not pointing a finger at libs here cuz im am pretty sure the libs feel the same way about the way we conservatives think... this makes it a MOOT POINT)

And about moot point.... thats about what we got here usually. were all preaching to the chior while throwing fuel on the fire. Me and barry felt like killing each other once til we stepped back and figured... hey isnt this silly?! would never happen like this in real life. I'm a hot head when it comes to arguing politics as are many others here.... when things get out of hand it's best to take a break!!!


there is my two cents.... i cant make it tonight unless the chat goes long. wont be home til about 10pm est

 

[barry2952]

Me and barry felt like killing each other once til we stepped back and figured... hey isnt this silly?! would never happen like this in real life.

When I was in Military School (my total military experience) I duked it out with a lot of guys. Somehow those fights developed into friendships. Must be a guy thing. The same thing has happened here. I'm sure I'd like Bryan and Freefaller and most of you if we met. We just wouldn't talk politics.

 

[MonsterMark]

That would cut both ways. Bryan is know for his distain of Hilary. Some of his posts have been truly tasteless. Should she be elected (God forbid!) will he show respect for the Presidency? I doubt it.

No doubt that would be an intense challenge for me. Thankfully, I'll never have to cross that bridge.

Man, would I be one unhappy camper. But if it did happen, I'd really be a hypocrite to not support her, so I would have to just to save face.

 

[RB3]

You are entitled to your opinion. If you are offended by this format you need to address your concerns to Joeychicago and MonsterMark. They are at both ends of the political spectrum and they are the Administrators so they get to choose the format. Forums of this nature are not a democracy. They have well established the desired level of acrimony long before you came along. No one is forcing you to participate.

When I first got here I had the same complaints. While not a big fan of John Kerry I voted for him anyway. It was the first time I voted for a Democrat. I was horribly put off by many of the ways that Bryan and others depicted Kerry. I was told to grow a thicker skin.

Stick around. I believe you will see the civility bar raised a few notches. If not, many of us will be gone.

I am not offended by the format, nor did I express offense at the format. And I did address my reply to Joey. Your reply to me was in essence that it is OK to call the President stupid, but not to call you stupid, because those are the "rules." My reponse was quite simply, it isn't OK to call anyone stupid if you hope to raise the civility level, regardless of the "rules."

This string began as an invitation to Conservatives to discuss ways to increase the level of civility. That's why I posted here. Yet the third post in the string contained a derogatory and disrespectful cartoon of the President, while suggesting that the name calling needs to stop. I agree with the sentiment. I also could not help but point out the obvious disconnect between the sentiment and the cartoon. You can't have it both ways.

I will reiterate my observation: The civility level will rise only when all the name calling stops, not just selected name calling. Calling the President "Shrub" and "stupid" and calling those of us on the right side of the aisle "Repugs" is not civil, nor is it a coherent political argument.