GM Bankruptcy Fears Rising on Wall Street

mespock

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I hope Ford Doesn't Follow

By ALEKSANDRS ROZENS, AP Business Writer

NEW YORK - An increasing number of investors are betting that General Motors Corp., the world's largest automaker, may be forced to seek bankruptcy protection within the next six to 12 months as it struggles to overcome slumping sales and the high cost of health care benefits for workers and retirees.

Concerns about the automaker's future are showing up in the credit default swaps market, where investors effectively buy insurance protection against defaults. Holders of GM debt who want to arrange a hedge against the risk that they won't be repaid are finding that the cost of buying the protection has risen dramatically in recent days.

"The markets are telling you that more traders are starting to see a greater risk that a default scenario could happen sooner in time than later," said John Tierney, a credit strategist at Deutsche Bank Securities in New York. "You cannot deny there is a pattern here."

GM spokesman Jerry Dubrowski responded by saying the automaker has "no plans to declare bankruptcy," and he noted that GM has about $19 billion in cash on hand. Beyond that, he declined to discuss recent pricing trends for credit default swaps. "Typically we don't comment on stock prices or bond prices," he said. "We don't think it is appropriate to do that."

At issue is the nearly $31 billion in debt related to GM automaking operations that ratings agencies already have downgraded to junk status, or below investment grade. Dubrowski said GM's total debt, including debt sold by its General Motors Acceptance Corp. unit, now stands at $276 billion.

Credit default swaps for GM are now trading at what is known as an "upfront" basis, meaning a bondholder seeking protection against a default has to pay more money up front because the Wall Street firms arranging the hedges have to pay more to protect themselves.

Michiko Whetten, a quantitative credit analyst at Nomura Securities International Inc., said GM debt had previously never traded on an upfront basis. But now that it is, it puts GM in an unenviable category with Delphi Corp. and Delta Air Lines Inc. — other companies whose debt traded on an upfront basis ahead of their petitioning for bankruptcy.

Auto parts maker Delphi, once owned by GM declared bankruptcy in October, and Delta, the nation's third largest carrier, went bankrupt in September.

GM lost nearly $4 billion in the first nine months of this year. The Detroit-based company has been hammered by high labor costs and rising prices for raw materials like steel. And while it recently reached agreement with the United Auto Workers union to temper the rise in health costs, GM still has been losing U.S. market share due to competition from healthier foreign rivals and weakened demand for sport utility vehicles, its longtime cash cows.

Wall Street's credit default swaps traders now view GM as a company so risky that a holder now must pay as much as $12 per year for every $100 of the automaker's five-year corporate debt if they want to hedge against a default, up from $8 to $9 just several weeks ago. In addition, credit default swaps traders are now demanding more of that money up front from investors looking to protect their GM holdings.

These losses may not actually occur, but the pricing moves in the swaps market are a good indication of how Wall Street traders and investors are judging the risk of a GM default.

GM Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner said in an October interview with The Associated Press that unlike the airline industry, where some bankruptcy filings haven't had a big effect on business, even speculating about bankruptcy hurts the auto business.

"When you're buying a car it's a very different thing," Wagoner said. "It's a massive financial commitment. You expect to own it for a long time, and (bankruptcy) is something that's going to have an impact in the consumer's mind."

On Monday, GM, whose stock is trading at nearly half of its 52-week high, announced price cuts to shore up its sales. Its shares fell 40 cents, or 1.7 percent, to $23.34 in afternoon trading Tuesday on the New York Stock Exchange.

GM's outlook in the credit default swaps market took on a bleaker tone after last week's disclosure by GM that it plans to restate its earnings for recent years. GM said its 2001 earnings were overstated by approximately $300 million to $400 million, but the final amount hasn't been determined. GM plans to issue the restated earnings for 2001 and any subsequent years before it issues its 2005 annual report next year.

That triggered what is known as an inversion in the credit swaps curve — a measure of risk between short- and long-term GM debt — meaning that Wall Street traders are betting the risk of GM declaring bankruptcy is greater in the next six months to a year than over a longer period of time like five years.

In a November 10 report, Banc of America analysts reiterated a sell rating on the company's stock, saying they believe the odds GM management could be held accountable for the accounting woes has risen and this could accelerate a bankruptcy protection decision they judged to be "inevitable."

According to Deutsche Bank's Tierney, the accounting problems caught investors by surprise and "contributed to a sense that GM problems are very deep."
 
I hope they do go under-or at least downsize. I'm tired of seeing the Trail blazer/Envoy/Rainier/Ascender/Saab version all label as differant vehicles.
 
Lincoln Luebbe said:
I hope they do go under-or at least downsize. I'm tired of seeing the Trail blazer/Envoy/Rainier/Ascender/Saab version all label as differant vehicles.

I agree - too many large truck vehicles.. They are Relying on the models that got them through the 90's.

Now with Gas prices as high as they are you can't expect the average Americans to be able to afford to drive these big vehicles as daily drivers anymore.
 
It never ceases to amaze me when nearly bankrupt corporations blame the high cost of health care for employees and retirees,for their losses. while their CEOs are multi- millionaire/billionaires. and all the shareholders enjoy fat returns on their investments. I hope they do go broke. they need to place the blame where it belongs. :soapbox:
 
JC1994 said:
It never ceases to amaze me when nearly bankrupt corporations blame the high cost of health care for employees and retirees,for their losses. while their CEOs are multi- millionaire/billionaires. and all the shareholders enjoy fat returns on their investments. I hope they do go broke. they need to place the blame where it belongs. :soapbox:


It's always the employees fault....

I wish some of those I have way too much for anyone person to have would get the chance to see what it is like to not have or to worry if they are going to be able to make it to the next month...

Maybe they would be happier with a smaller slice of the pie and let the money trickle down as Ronnie Reagan use to put it.
 
when will it end??? do you know of any bankrupt or starving CEOs? I don't. they all walk away billionaires and everyone else losses their job. It's total BULLSH!T.
 
Well I hope they don't go broke. Well, for one my brother works for them...and two they are a huge corporation and the effects of their bankruptcy would hurt the American economy bad.
 
brentalan said:
and two they are a huge corporation and the effects of their bankruptcy would hurt the American economy bad.

This is true, we have a few GM plants in Wisconsin.. Lots of unemployment...

I just hope it doesn't hurt the retirement of those employees who have worked long and hard.

You know the Upper Crust will not lose no matter what.. They might be out a few extra million but I could live on one of those Million for an very long time.
 
At school there have been many cutbacks in the GM program for trainee techs. Many hacve been dropped from the program so GM can save money. Otheres are still in the program but don't have their apprenticeships and jobs at dealers anymore. GM Is in really bad shape it looks like Bankruptcy is inevitable. Bob Lutz has really brought GM into the toilet. The only way I see them still around in the next couple years is if the government loans them money.

After all is said and done, Ford will be the most finacially stable Motor company in the U.S. Market. Chrysler is Mercedes now. So they don't count. This is bad guys. America can't afford to lose another major company.
 
I'm currently working on a New GM plant in Delta, just this side of Lansing, and while I haven't goten any "Factual" stats, I've heard the site is 14,000 acres, I haven't seen inside the Stamping, Paint or Assembly plants, I'm working in the Body shop, witch a few of us estimated, when finished, will house ~2000 robots...
I've heard the entire facility will be run by 200 employes..., should cut down a bit on their insurance...
Supposed to go online next year, possibly March.
There's room on site for another complete plant.
 
brentalan said:
Well I hope they don't go broke. Well, for one my brother works for them...and two they are a huge corporation and the effects of their bankruptcy would hurt the American economy bad.
yeah right. who cares. I gaurantee that the blame of it all will be on the workers who made them successful. not on the corporate crooks that have stolen all the money.
 
my uncle worked for gm.. he recently retired from there.. you know what kind of amazing discount you get for being with a company. hes driving an almost new navigator..
 
JC1994 said:
unsafe too. I seen a new Malibu get ass ended in front of me and the whole ass end of the car was smashed flat clear to the back seat.. :eek2:


Those Malibu's have alot of issues. The new ones have a recall for the rear coil springs. They give out with only two passengers in the back. I have seen quite a few around here with there as$es sagging on the ground because of the defective springs. GM is doomed unless they start concentrating on gas mileage and dependability instead of gas guzzling power horses. It's the only way there sales will pick up.
 
I live in Ohio and the Delphi plants who make a ton of GM's parts just filed bankruptcy about a month ago-is they close the doors there goes another 6500 jobs. Also one of my friends dads worked for almost thirty years at GM-they gave him 30,000.00 to retire 3 years early, he said that they paid a bunch of their topped out employees to retire early and the starting wage at the delphi plants at that time dropped to 8.00 an hr. Then they will charge 62,000 for a Escalade. It supposedly takes 28 hrs to start and complete a vehicle can somebody do the math for me? Even if some of the assembly line workers are making double that- they are making more than a profit!!
 
Lincoln Luebbe said:
I live in Ohio and the Delphi plants who make a ton of GM's parts just filed bankruptcy about a month ago-is they close the doors there goes another 6500 jobs. Also one of my friends dads worked for almost thirty years at GM-they gave him 30,000.00 to retire 3 years early, he said that they paid a bunch of their topped out employees to retire early and the starting wage at the delphi plants at that time dropped to 8.00 an hr. Then they will charge 62,000 for a Escalade. It supposedly takes 28 hrs to start and complete a vehicle can somebody do the math for me? Even if some of the assembly line workers are making double that- they are making more than a profit!!


your not thinking of cost of opperation of machines, cost of materials, cost of accessories that they dont make. etc etc.


I personally think that it would be a bad idea for them to go bankrupt, but they need to get back in the game, and start making cars the way they used to. they ave been arround for almost 100 years or something like that. You would have thought that they could have learned SOMETHING in that timeframe, kinda like...its what the consumer likes, not what you like? something like that, mabey!?

They need to stop copying the foreign companies design focus, and get back to the uniqueness that made american cars so great. They are focusing on making the cheeply engineered cars, with a lot of flash. (ex cobalt,trash)

Stay safe, make nice comfey midsize sedans with ammenities, and a solid steel frame. :D
 

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