Hard Start LS8--Please help!!

[2001LS8Sport]

Good Morning Everyone!

I'm a noob here and joined when I found this site looking for a solution to a problem I'm having with my son's 01 LS8 Sport. First, I'll tell you a little about myself so you know where I'm coming from. The LS used to be mine. I sold it to my son when I bought an 04 Cobra. My wife drives an 03 Aviator. My mom was a Ford/Lincoln/Mercury dealer for over 20 years before she sold it and retired. I have a very strong background in Ford products and EEC systems.

Here's the problem we're having with the LS. About 3 months ago, it started having hard start problems...mainly when warm. You have to crank it 3 to 5 times to get it to start. When it does, it sounds like it's starting on one cylinder at a time. Usually when cold, it starts fine...or at least better. Now remember, we're in Arizona, so cold is relative!! I stuck my fuel pressure guages on it this weekend and sure enough, it's not holding pressure when shut off. I tried to isolate the leak, and my guages wouldn't allow me to isolate the fuel rail without modification. I'll do that next. But the fuel pump check valve is not holding very well either. Regardless, if I cycle the key a few times and build the pressure before cranking, it still has the hard start condition. This problem is worse sometimes than others...and sometimes starts right away but with the one cylinder at a time scenario. Here's another quirk. If I disconnect the battery and let the ECM lose it's adaptive strategy, it seems to be much, much better for a while. Weird. Some of these issues seem to make me think it's a leaking injector. Other's don't. Any ideas anyone?

 

[eL eS]

sorry to hear about the woes. Sounds like you got a great jump on troubleshooting this. Here is a TSB that discuses a simialr condition. This may require the PCM to be replaced or in some cases reprogrammed.

Article No.
03-7-3

04/14/03

DRIVEABILITY - ENGINE FLOODING, EXTENDED
CRANK TIME OR HARD STARTING - COLD ENGINE
WITH AMBIENT TEMPERATURES 30-40 F (-1-5 C)
WITH GREATER THAN 75% HUMIDITY ONLY

FORD:
2002 THUNDERBIRD

LINCOLN:
2000-2002 LS

Article 02-16-1 is being republished in its entirety 10 clarify concern conditions and to update the procedures to identify replacement PCM's.

NOTE THIS ARTICLE IS ONLY APPLICABLE FOR COLD ENGINE STARTING CONCERNS WHICH OCCUR SPECIFICALLY BETWEEN 30-40°F (-1-5°C), COMBINED WITH A HUMIDITY LEVEL GREATER THAN 75%. IF THE STARTING CONCERN DOES NOT OCCUR WHEN THE ENGINE IS COLD, DO NOT CONTINUE WITH THIS PROCEDURE. IF THE STARTING CONCERN OCCURS WHEN THE AMBIENT CONDITIONS ARE OUTSIDE THE RANGE DESCRIBED IN THIE3 ARTICLE, DO NOT CONTINUE WITH THIS PROCEDURE. REFER TO THE PC/ED (POWERTRAIN CONTROL/EMISSION DIAGNOSIS) MANUAL FOR DIAGNOSIS.

ISSUE
Some vehicles may intermittently exhibit the following conditions: engine flooding during cold start, extended cranking time required to start when cold, or hard to start engine when cold. These conditions would only occur when the ambient temperatures are between 30-40°F (-1-5°C), combined with a humidity level greater than 75%. This may be caused by the PCM, PCM Calibration or the IAC (Idle Air Control) Valve.

ACTION
Verify the engine starting concern and that the weather conditions are the same as stated above. Repair the vehicle using one of the following service procedures depending on engine displacement and the PCM installed in the vehicle.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

2002 Model Year Vehicles - All Engines

2002 model year vehicles (all engines) require only a Powertrain Control Module (PCM) calibration update. If working on a 2002 model year vehicle, reprogram the PCM to the latest calibration level. Refer to the PCM Calibration Chart for details. No further service is required.

2001 Model Year Vehicles - V6 Engines

V6 2001 model year vehicles may require only a PCM reprogram or a new PCM, Idle Air Control (IAC) Jumper Harness, AC, AC Gasket and IAC Bolts depending on the PCM installed in the vehicle. Refer to "Obtaining the PCM Module Identification" section of this article for further details.

2001 Model Year Vehicles - V8 Engines

V8 2001 model year vehicles may require oily a PCM reprogram or a new PCM and AC Jumper Harness depending on the PCM installed in the vehicle. Refer to "Obtaining the PCM Module Identification" section of this article for further details.

2000 Model Year Vehicles - V6 Engines

V6 2000 model year vehicles require a new PCM, AC Jumper Harness, AC, IAC Gasket and AC Bolts be installed in the vehicle. Refer to "Obtaining the PCM Module Identification" and "V6 Vehicles Requiring a New PCM" sections of this article for further details.

2000 Model Year Vehicles - V8 Engines

V8 2000 model year vehicles require a new PCM and AC Jumper Harness be installed in the vehicle. Refer to "Obtaining the PCM Module Identification" and "V8 Vehicles Requiring a New PCM" section of this article for further details.

Obtaining the PCM Module Identification

1. With the New Generation Star (NGS) tester and the latest level Diagnostic Card (Red), use the following steps to obtain the PCM part number:

a. Enter the Model Year and Engine Displacement of the vehicle.

b. Select Diagnostic Data Link.

c. Select Powertrain Control Module.

d. Write down the PCM part number

2. Check if the PCM part number is listed in the chart found in Figure 1.

3. All 2000 and some 2001 model year vehicles will have a PCM included in the list. If the PCM part IS included in the list, refer to either "V6 Vehicles Requiring a New PCM" or "V8 Vehicles Requiring a New PCM" for the repair procedure.

4. Some 2001 model year vehicles will not be in the list. These vehicles only require that the PCM be reprogrammed to the latest level.
Refer to the PCM Calibration Chart for details.

No further service is required.

 

[2001LS8Sport]

Thank you eL eS! Unfortunately, we already had that TSB done. I should have mentioned that. We had a new ECM and jumper harness installed. By the way, if you don't install the jumper harness, you have PATS issues....don't ask.

I think one of the main issues is the dealers around here. You would think that a city of this size would command an excellent dealer network. But the Lincoln dealers don't pay their techs what they are worth and they move on in a hurry. I have never had such horrible service and incompetence on any of my Lincolns from them. I guess I'll either start driving across town to Scottsdale or to 5 Star Ford where they have better service departments. I should post a letter I had to write the dealer on the service we had received. You would be amazed.

I am going to modify one of my pressure guages so I can shut the fuel off back to the tank after I pressurize the system. I will hook it up at the fuel rail (next to the FRPS), pressurize the system, then shut a valve that will isolate the pressure to the valve and not allow fuel to return to the tank. That will let me know immediately if I have an injector issue.

I do have a question for you...is there a good way to check and see what injector is leaking without having to pull them all from the car and have them pressure checked?

I really appreciate your help with this.

 

[eL eS]

I think the blame for poor service really is on Ford and their macromanagement of the warranty programs. I believe there has been an impact on the paying customers becasue the techs now have a learned behavior, which is substandard, as a result of the constraints of the warranty work. So whether you come in with a pocket full of cash or on warranty you get the same noncustomer service centric service.

You might want to post this stuff at flatratetech.com as well. The site is primarily supported by Ford Master Certified Tech and they have been very helpful in resolving some of my past problems.

I can tell you this there is not a short for checking the injectors not any that I have larned at least. It is possible that you having a failing fuel pump i recently with through a shutdown issue and the car was loosing fuel pressure. They replaced the pumps and the problem recurred so they then replaced the REM, rear electronic module, which handles mgmnt of fuel delivery.

The shop had my car for over 90 days before the problems was solved. At the time I had 90+k miles on the car an the injectors were never in question. Check out flatratetech.com and maybe between here and there you might get a quicker resolution. I have never been to 5 Star for service but ai can tell you that the parts gus are very helpful and you might consider using them since LvC folks can get parts discounts there. I will continue searching alldata.com to see what I can dig up for ya.

 

[eL eS]

I thinkI had read that the jumpe harness had to be removed on someonesLS. Does this sound famiiar to anyone?

 

[lsbit]

It could be a leaky injector. I have seen quite a few posts on this. If you go to flatratetech you will see where I made a post and they suggested how to check for this. Basically pull the injectors out of the engine and leave them on the rail. I think the subject is p0303 code.

Let us know what you find!

Also, I pulled my plug #3 and it smelled like fuel. I also tried listening to the injectors and the #3 sounds a little louder, but nothing too obvious. You might want to try that.

I think I will pull one off my wife's car, as soon as I figure out how to unhook them without breaking the connectors. FRAGILE! I am careful too. My '95 Mustang still has all it's connectos intact and I have done all kinds of fun things to it.