Hillary said this and now says this

MonsterMark

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October 10, 2002

Floor Speech of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton
on S.J. Res. 45, A Resolution to Authorize the Use of
United States Armed Forces Against Iraq
As Delivered

Today we are asked whether to give the President of the United States authority to use force in Iraq should diplomatic efforts fail to dismantle Saddam Hussein's chemical and biological weapons and his nuclear program.

I am honored to represent nearly 19 million New Yorkers, a thoughtful democracy of voices and opinions who make themselves heard on the great issues of our day especially this one. Many have contacted my office about this resolution, both in support of and in opposition to it, and I am grateful to all who have expressed an opinion.

I also greatly respect the differing opinions within this body. The debate they engender will aid our search for a wise, effective policy. Therefore, on no account should dissent be discouraged or disparaged. It is central to our freedom and to our progress, for on more than one occasion, history has proven our great dissenters to be right.

Now, I believe the facts that have brought us to this fateful vote are not in doubt. Saddam Hussein is a tyrant who has tortured and killed his own people, even his own family members, to maintain his iron grip on power. He used chemical weapons on Iraqi Kurds and on Iranians, killing over 20 thousand people. Unfortunately, during the 1980's, while he engaged in such horrific activity, he enjoyed the support of the American government, because he had oil and was seen as a counterweight to the Ayatollah Khomeini in Iran.

In 1991, Saddam Hussein invaded and occupied Kuwait, losing the support of the United States. The first President Bush assembled a global coalition, including many Arab states, and threw Saddam out after forty-three days of bombing and a hundred hours of ground operations. The U.S.-led coalition then withdrew, leaving the Kurds and the Shiites, who had risen against Saddam Hussein at our urging, to Saddam's revenge.

As a condition for ending the conflict, the United Nations imposed a number of requirements on Iraq, among them disarmament of all weapons of mass destruction, stocks used to make such weapons, and laboratories necessary to do the work. Saddam Hussein agreed, and an inspection system was set up to ensure compliance. And though he repeatedly lied, delayed, and obstructed the inspections work, the inspectors found and destroyed far more weapons of mass destruction capability than were destroyed in the Gulf War, including thousands of chemical weapons, large volumes of chemical and biological stocks, a number of missiles and warheads, a major lab equipped to produce anthrax and other bio-weapons, as well as substantial nuclear facilities.

In 1998, Saddam Hussein pressured the United Nations to lift the sanctions by threatening to stop all cooperation with the inspectors. In an attempt to resolve the situation, the UN, unwisely in my view, agreed to put limits on inspections of designated "sovereign sites" including the so-called presidential palaces, which in reality were huge compounds well suited to hold weapons labs, stocks, and records which Saddam Hussein was required by UN resolution to turn over. When Saddam blocked the inspection process, the inspectors left. As a result, President Clinton, with the British and others, ordered an intensive four-day air assault, Operation Desert Fox, on known and suspected weapons of mass destruction sites and other military targets.

In 1998, the United States also changed its underlying policy toward Iraq from containment to regime change and began to examine options to effect such a change, including support for Iraqi opposition leaders within the country and abroad.

In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001.

It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security.

Now this much is undisputed. The open questions are: what should we do about it? How, when, and with whom?

Some people favor attacking Saddam Hussein now, with any allies we can muster, in the belief that one more round of weapons inspections would not produce the required disarmament, and that deposing Saddam would be a positive good for the Iraqi people and would create the possibility of a secular democratic state in the Middle East, one which could perhaps move the entire region toward democratic reform.

This view has appeal to some, because it would assure disarmament; because it would right old wrongs after our abandonment of the Shiites and Kurds in 1991, and our support for Saddam Hussein in the 1980's when he was using chemical weapons and terrorizing his people; and because it would give the Iraqi people a chance to build a future in freedom.

However, this course is fraught with danger. We and our NATO allies did not depose Mr. Milosevic, who was responsible for more than a quarter of a million people being killed in the 1990s. Instead, by stopping his aggression in Bosnia and Kosovo, and keeping on the tough sanctions, we created the conditions in which his own people threw him out and led to his being in the dock being tried for war crimes as we speak.

If we were to attack Iraq now, alone or with few allies, it would set a precedent that could come back to haunt us. In recent days, Russia has talked of an invasion of Georgia to attack Chechen rebels. India has mentioned the possibility of a pre-emptive strike on Pakistan. And what if China were to perceive a threat from Taiwan?

So Mr. President, for all its appeal, a unilateral attack, while it cannot be ruled out, on the present facts is not a good option.

Others argue that we should work through the United Nations and should only resort to force if and when the United Nations Security Council approves it. This too has great appeal for different reasons. The UN deserves our support. Whenever possible we should work through it and strengthen it, for it enables the world to share the risks and burdens of global security and when it acts, it confers a legitimacy that increases the likelihood of long-term success. The UN can help lead the world into a new era of global cooperation and the United States should support that goal.

But there are problems with this approach as well. The United Nations is an organization that is still growing and maturing. It often lacks the cohesion to enforce its own mandates. And when Security Council members use the veto, on occasion, for reasons of narrow-minded interests, it cannot act. In Kosovo, the Russians did not approve NATO military action because of political, ethnic, and religious ties to the Serbs. The United States therefore could not obtain a Security Council resolution in favor of the action necessary to stop the dislocation and ethnic cleansing of more than a million Kosovar Albanians. However, most of the world was with us because there was a genuine emergency with thousands dead and a million driven from their homes. As soon as the American-led conflict was over, Russia joined the peacekeeping effort that is still underway.

In the case of Iraq, recent comments indicate that one or two Security Council members might never approve force against Saddam Hussein until he has actually used chemical, biological, or God forbid, nuclear weapons.

So, Mr. President, the question is how do we do our best to both defuse the real threat that Saddam Hussein poses to his people, to the region, including Israel, to the United States, to the world, and at the same time, work to maximize our international support and strengthen the United Nations?

While there is no perfect approach to this thorny dilemma, and while people of good faith and high intelligence can reach diametrically opposed conclusions, I believe the best course is to go to the UN for a strong resolution that scraps the 1998 restrictions on inspections and calls for complete, unlimited inspections with cooperation expected and demanded from Iraq. I know that the Administration wants more, including an explicit authorization to use force, but we may not be able to secure that now, perhaps even later. But if we get a clear requirement for unfettered inspections, I believe the authority to use force to enforce that mandate is inherent in the original 1991 UN resolution, as President Clinton recognized when he launched Operation Desert Fox in 1998.

If we get the resolution that President Bush seeks, and if Saddam complies, disarmament can proceed and the threat can be eliminated. Regime change will, of course, take longer but we must still work for it, nurturing all reasonable forces of opposition.

If we get the resolution and Saddam does not comply, then we can attack him with far more support and legitimacy than we would have otherwise.

If we try and fail to get a resolution that simply, but forcefully, calls for Saddam's compliance with unlimited inspections, those who oppose even that will be in an indefensible position. And, we will still have more support and legitimacy than if we insist now on a resolution that includes authorizing military action and other requirements giving some nations superficially legitimate reasons to oppose any Security Council action. They will say we never wanted a resolution at all and that we only support the United Nations when it does exactly what we want.

I believe international support and legitimacy are crucial. After shots are fired and bombs are dropped, not all consequences are predictable. While the military outcome is not in doubt, should we put troops on the ground, there is still the matter of Saddam Hussein's biological and chemical weapons. Today he has maximum incentive not to use them or give them away. If he did either, the world would demand his immediate removal. Once the battle is joined, however, with the outcome certain, he will have maximum incentive to use weapons of mass destruction and to give what he can't use to terrorists who can torment us with them long after he is gone. We cannot be paralyzed by this possibility, but we would be foolish to ignore it. And according to recent reports, the CIA agrees with this analysis. A world united in sharing the risk at least would make this occurrence less likely and more bearable and would be far more likely to share with us the considerable burden of rebuilding a secure and peaceful post-Saddam Iraq.

President Bush's speech in Cincinnati and the changes in policy that have come forth since the Administration began broaching this issue some weeks ago have made my vote easier. Even though the resolution before the Senate is not as strong as I would like in requiring the diplomatic route first and placing highest priority on a simple, clear requirement for unlimited inspections, I will take the President at his word that he will try hard to pass a UN resolution and will seek to avoid war, if at all possible.

Because bipartisan support for this resolution makes success in the United Nations more likely, and therefore, war less likely, and because a good faith effort by the United States, even if it fails, will bring more allies and legitimacy to our cause, I have concluded, after careful and serious consideration, that a vote for the resolution best serves the security of our nation. If we were to defeat this resolution or pass it with only a few Democrats, I am concerned that those who want to pretend this problem will go way with delay will oppose any UN resolution calling for unrestricted inspections.

This is a very difficult vote. This is probably the hardest decision I have ever had to make -- any vote that may lead to war should be hard -- but I cast it with conviction.

And perhaps my decision is influenced by my eight years of experience on the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue in the White House watching my husband deal with serious challenges to our nation. I want this President, or any future President, to be in the strongest possible position to lead our country in the United Nations or in war. Secondly, I want to insure that Saddam Hussein makes no mistake about our national unity and for our support for the President's efforts to wage America's war against terrorists and weapons of mass destruction. And thirdly, I want the men and women in our Armed Forces to know that if they should be called upon to act against Iraq, our country will stand resolutely behind them.

My vote is not, however, a vote for any new doctrine of pre-emption, or for uni-lateralism, or for the arrogance of American power or purpose -- all of which carry grave dangers for our nation, for the rule of international law and for the peace and security of people throughout the world.

Over eleven years have passed since the UN called on Saddam Hussein to rid himself of weapons of mass destruction as a condition of returning to the world community. Time and time again he has frustrated and denied these conditions. This matter cannot be left hanging forever with consequences we would all live to regret. War can yet be avoided, but our responsibility to global security and to the integrity of United Nations resolutions protecting it cannot. I urge the President to spare no effort to secure a clear, unambiguous demand by the United Nations for unlimited inspections.

And finally, on another personal note, I come to this decision from the perspective of a Senator from New York who has seen all too closely the consequences of last year's terrible attacks on our nation. In balancing the risks of action versus inaction, I think New Yorkers who have gone through the fires of hell may be more attuned to the risk of not acting. I know that I am.

So it is with conviction that I support this resolution as being in the best interests of our nation. A vote for it is not a vote to rush to war; it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President and we say to him - use these powers wisely and as a last resort. And it is a vote that says clearly to Saddam Hussein - this is your last chance - disarm or be disarmed.

Thank you, Mr. President.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And now she says this... biitch.

"I have said clearly and consistently for quite some time that I regret the way the president misused the authority. He misled Congress and the country on what he was seeking and what he intended to do."
 
Brilliant. Hillary hoists herself with her own petard there. I really like this part, for all those on the left who said we went into Iraq for oil or only b/c of WMDs:

This view has appeal to some, because it would assure disarmament; because it would right old wrongs after our abandonment of the Shiites and Kurds in 1991, and our support for Saddam Hussein in the 1980's when he was using chemical weapons and terrorizing his people; and because it would give the Iraqi people a chance to build a future in freedom...

If we get the resolution and Saddam does not comply, then we can attack him with far more support and legitimacy than we would have otherwise.

If we try and fail to get a resolution that simply, but forcefully, calls for Saddam's compliance with unlimited inspections, those who oppose even that will be in an indefensible position. And, we will still have more support and legitimacy than if we insist now on a resolution that includes authorizing military action and other requirements giving some nations superficially legitimate reasons to oppose any Security Council action. They will say we never wanted a resolution at all and that we only support the United Nations when it does exactly what we want.
 
Hmmm - What happened to "Stay the Course"? -- Seems I heard alot of that in Septembet and October, not so much these days....

Know what - The whole war is a fiasco. Nobody really knows why we're in a war, and nobody knows how to win it. What was believed when the war was started, isnt believed anymore by most.

So what do we do now that we have another war that looks like we dont have the resolve to win? I agree with GW on this one, we should stay and win it. I dont agree with how he plans to do it. I think his "surge" plan is half assed. Dump another 150,000 troops in, and take complete control of the country and its borders. Lock the whole country down. THEN start turning things over to the Iraqis - one city at a time. This extra 20k troops isnt going to have much impact in Baghdad, a city of 6 million. This is where we need that tough talking cowboy president to be tough. Unfortunately, he hasnt been on this issue.
 
Joeychgo said:
Hmmm - What happened to "Stay the Course"? -- Seems I heard alot of that in Septembet and October, not so much these days....

Know what - The whole war is a fiasco. Nobody really knows why we're in a war, and nobody knows how to win it. What was believed when the war was started, isnt believed anymore by most.

So what do we do now that we have another war that looks like we dont have the resolve to win? I agree with GW on this one, we should stay and win it. I dont agree with how he plans to do it. I think his "surge" plan is half assed. Dump another 150,000 troops in, and take complete control of the country and its borders. Lock the whole country down. THEN start turning things over to the Iraqis - one city at a time. This extra 20k troops isnt going to have much impact in Baghdad, a city of 6 million. This is where we need that tough talking cowboy president to be tough. Unfortunately, he hasnt been on this issue.

Actually, Joey, it's the President who has been the toughest in our entire govt. so far regarding the war. The weakest people in the country have been the Democrats.

While I agree with you that we need to overwhelm the country with more force, you may be a little behind the times in your news sources. We just had a massive assault where we killed 250 terrorists, and the IRAQI ARMY took the lead in the attack.
 
Joeychgo said:
Hmmm - What happened to "Stay the Course"? -- Seems I heard alot of that in Septembet and October, not so much these days....

You know what? You are one of the millions of Americans that are easily bamboozled by the mainstream media. It took the media months to twist the wording 'stay the course' into what many of you now believe it to mean. Sheesh.

What does 'stay the course' mean in the context as it was spoken? It means America will stay in the fight. We are committed to the end. Victory is the only outcome.

That is what 'stay the course' means.

I would love to hear from any one of you 'left of center' types that can tell how we achieve our objectives over there by 'cutting and running'. I'm sorry, 'redeploy'. LMAO.
 
AH - but I didnt say we shouldnt fight. Whether the war was a smart thing to do or not is irrelevent IMO. Were the reasons we went to war valid and accurate? Again, irrelevent. We are in the war - the focus is what do we do now.

We should have overwhelmed them day 1 - but we didnt. That was the biggest mistake. We can debate everything else til doomsday and it will make no difference. Results are what matters now.

And I think the American public spoke on "Stay the Course" when they gave Congress to the Dems -- They further speak by the President's approval ratings, which remain in the 30's.

And, for the record, im no more impressed with the dems right now then you are. Well, maybe a little. But thats only because I dont have blind hatred for them and anything they stand for.
 
I hope she becomes Prez for 2 reasons
A-I wouldnt mind being alive to see the 1rst female president elected-it may be good thing
B-to be alive when the 1rst female president is assasinated.:
 
Joeychgo said:
AH - but I didnt say we shouldnt fight. Whether the war was a smart thing to do or not is irrelevent IMO. Were the reasons we went to war valid and accurate? Again, irrelevent. We are in the war - the focus is what do we do now.

We should have overwhelmed them day 1 - but we didnt. That was the biggest mistake. We can debate everything else til doomsday and it will make no difference. Results are what matters now.

And I think the American public spoke on "Stay the Course" when they gave Congress to the Dems -- They further speak by the President's approval ratings, which remain in the 30's.

And, for the record, im no more impressed with the dems right now then you are. Well, maybe a little. But thats only because I dont have blind hatred for them and anything they stand for.

Joey, the biggest difference between you and the rest of the Dems in Congress is: I believe you actually want the US to win this war.

Yes, you are reading that right, I gave you a compliment.
 
Reality bites ......September 11,
this war bites,....... from then till..when
this is one meal I will savor the aftertaste.

and I won't be late for this black tie dinner when you guys sit down to discuss this in 15 years

me
 
taylor414ce2003 said:
I hope she becomes Prez for 2 reasons
A-I wouldnt mind being alive to see the 1rst female president elected-it may be good thing
B-to be alive when the 1rst female president is assasinated.:

:D
 
taylor414ce2003 said:
I hope she becomes Prez for 2 reasons

B-to be alive when the 1rst female president is assasinated.:


Hmmm...how come Fossten isn't crying over this? I recall a few posts were Fossten flipped because someone had used the word "president" and "assisinate" in the same sentence. Oh wait...good ole' Hil isn't a Republican, so it's OK to joke of killing her. My bad.
 
RRocket said:
Hmmm...how come Fossten isn't crying over this? I recall a few posts were Fossten flipped because someone had used the word "president" and "assisinate" in the same sentence. Oh wait...good ole' Hil isn't a Republican, so it's OK to joke of killing her. My bad.

Boy, you've got some kind of hard-on for me, don't you? Can't post without putting my name in it. I've got a thing about groupies, you understand. I guess being from Canada you are used to being second fiddle to America, eh?

Didn't realize I was required to post whenever you tell me to. Do me a favor, your majesty, and PM me next time so I can know when you decide it's appropriate for me to post something. <sarcasm off>
 
RRocket said:
I recall a few posts were Fossten flipped because someone had used the word "president" and "assisinate" in the same sentence.

Hillary is already the President??? I didn't know that!
 
I belive the war in Iraq has been over for some time. We kicked their ass if I remember correctly.

Since that time we have been occupying Iraq, just as we occuppied Germany after their surrender in WWII. If one looks back to that time you'll find it the Germans didn't just roll over and be little angles, nor have those in Iraq.

What is different now is there are a group of politicians and business people who see an advantage to their careers in having Iraq become a quagmire for the President and the military. If given the authority such as they had at the end of WWII the military would not be in the position it finds itself in now.

Poeple like Hillary, Ted K, Jane Fonda (now beating her drum again), Fienstein, Boxer and others are little more than war criminals for their action in encouraging continued violence in the middle east and building their careers on the deaths and injuries suffered by American troops being micro-managed base upon political considerations, not sound tactical principals.
 
fossten said:
Boy, you've got some kind of hard-on for me, don't you? Can't post without putting my name in it. I've got a thing about groupies, you understand. I guess being from Canada you are used to being second fiddle to America, eh?

Didn't realize I was required to post whenever you tell me to. Do me a favor, your majesty, and PM me next time so I can know when you decide it's appropriate for me to post something. <sarcasm off>


Nah....you don't need my permission. I like reading your posts. Kinda feel sad when I don't see a "Fossten-esque" reply!! Afterall, we all need our Fossten fix for the day, no? :)
 
^^^^ Yea something like that, Bryan. What's new, anyways?
 
Joeychgo said:
More like a good laxative :D

Lots of personal experience there, eh? :D datemoviepubl[1].jpg

datemoviepubl[1].jpg
 

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