How do we get thru to you liberals???

MonsterMark

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We are at war with a sect of people so evil that they cannot be negotiated with. They can't be 'left' alone. The ONLY way to ensure OUR survival is to kill them, all of them if necessary.

The 'link' provided is one of the most gruesome things I have ever seen in my life and would never want to watch again.

If you are a liberal and have the guts to view this, you will be forever changed. I believe your views on the global war on terror and our battles in Iraq, Afganistan and else where will be changed.

It is 8:46 seconds of your life. I'm posting the link because I have failed to reach many of you as to the realities we face.

The fact that we are even having the type of discussions in Congress about our committment in Iraq disgusts and saddens me.

I don't know what it will take to wake you guys up.

If you watch this video, it is at your own peril. How any human being could do this to another human being is beyond my capacity to comprehend.

My God, please wake up from your slumber before it is too late. Iran will have the bomb soon and we do not have the resolve to do anything about it. Why do we have to wait for it to happen? We all know it is going to. It is just a matter of time. It is time for Americans to take their head out of the sand.

WARNING!!!! INTENSE GRAPHIC VIOLENCE. NOT FOR ANYBODY UNDER THE AGE OF 18 TO WATCH!!!
I mean it. This will be seared in your brain forever.

http://www.warriorsfortruth.com/beheading-video-eugene-armstrong.html
 
If you are a liberal and have the guts to view this, you will be forever changed. I believe your views on the global war on terror and our battles in Iraq, Afganistan and else where will be changed.


My issues are really more about how the war(s) have been prosecuted, then if we are in them or not.
 
My issues are really more about how the war(s) have been prosecuted, then if we are in them or not.

Then you have two choices- one group that recognizes the threat and are trying to combat it. Mistakes will be made, but at least one group has the conviction to confront it. When decisions are made, leaders don't have the benefit of hindsight that the critics now rely on.

The other group refuses to acknowledge the true nature of the threat. They think the evil can be negotiated with or appeased. They think, perhaps, if we retreat behind our borders and abandoned our principles, they'll tolerate us.

There's no perfection, but I've boiled down the alternatives.
 
Then you have two choices- one group that recognizes the threat and are trying to combat it. Mistakes will be made, but at least one group has the conviction to confront it. When decisions are made, leaders don't have the benefit of hindsight that the critics now rely on.

The other group refuses to acknowledge the true nature of the threat. They think the evil can be negotiated with or appeased. They think, perhaps, if we retreat behind our borders and abandoned our principles, they'll tolerate us.

There is so much hatred in this religious group that you cannot even say they are suicidal as a joke , because they actually are suicidal. They are indoctrinating their kids right now to become matryrs. It is considered the greatest gift to Allah to blow oneself up in order to kill the infadels. The only hope for our planet is peaceful democracies which is why it is soooo important for Iraq to succeed. There are people in Iran that want to live in peace and prosper in a free society but they need help to rise up, much like the Iraqis do.

If we fail in Iraq, we as a world of nations has failed.
 
My issues are really more about how the war(s) have been prosecuted...

I have the same problems and I blame the media for tying our hands behind our backs. Everything is politcally correct these days and it is leading to our downfall.
 
As far as congressional democrats understanding the conservative viewpoint regarding Iraq, it's pretty much a lost cause because democrats have invested themselves and their party in a loosing cause in Iraq. Democrats cannot afford to allow Iraq to succeed. I know this is tough to swallow for many but I think it's pretty clear that democrats understand what is at stake, particularly in 2008, should the Bush administration succeed in Iraq even if "success" is measured by turning over control to Iraq's military. This is why they are now trying their best to derail any attempt to form a different strategy to deal with insurgents, particularly in Baghdad.
 
I have the same problems and I blame the media for tying our hands behind our backs. Everything is politcally correct these days and it is leading to our downfall.


See, now I cant agree with you there. The media is doing its job. The media isnt responsible for all the mistakes in this war, and if GW was truly a leader, then the media couldnt touch him. The media isnt tying anything. The american people are doing that (if we are to assume you are correct that our hands are somewhat tied) -

The war in Iraq was poorly prosecuted, plain and simple. Many things contributed to the loss of public support. Things like that stupid aircraft carrier landing and subsequent 'mission accomplished' speech. The media isnt at fault for that. The media isnt at fault for the low troop count when we invaded, that was GW and Rummy's idea os a 'leaner meaner' military. The Media isnt responsible for the multitude of other mistakes that were made.

Reality is, GW didnt expect to still be in Iraq. He fully expected the Iraqi people to behave like the europeans in WWII. We roll in, the people are thrilled, feel saved, and the US is a hero. This was naive and shortsided.

Iraq War Plan Assumed Only 5,000 U.S. Troops Still There by December 2006

Should we have gone to war? I dont know. I dont think we should have gone for the reasons stated at the time. I was never against the war per se, I jsut feel its been handled poorly, and still is. Unfortunately, the people dont appear willing to give the war a second chance, and GW doesnt appear ready to commit what is necessary to win.

Iran doesnt even fear us right now. They know how thin we are stretched, and they know there is no public support for yet another war. SO, while we now flounder in Iraq, Iran is building, and building and building a war machine that will be much harder to defeat in the future.
 
See, now I cant agree with you there. The media is doing its job. The media isnt responsible for all the mistakes in this war, and if GW was truly a leader, then the media couldnt touch him. The media isnt tying anything. The american people are doing that (if we are to assume you are correct that our hands are somewhat tied) -
No, the media is not simply doing their job, they are advancing an agenda. They are advancing a world view. The media has the ability to sway public opinion and censor what the public sees.

You say that if GW was truly a leader the media couldn't touch him... that's utter nonsense.

How many days did the Abu Ghraib story dominate the headlines? 32 successive NY Times FRONT PAGE articles. Did that story about making Iraqi prisoners uncomfortable really warrant that kind of coverage?

The NY Times proclivity for releasing classified information is so well known that prior to the invasion, the Bush administration wisely leaked "classified" information knowing full well that Arkin would publish the troop movements in the NY Times to mislead the Iraqi army.


The war in Iraq was poorly prosecuted, plain and simple.
This is a throw away line, without expanding on it, it is meaningly.

What was poorly executed and why? Was the military operation poorly executed? Was the peace keeping element? Where were the errors made, why were they made, and how do we avoid the same problems.

Ultimately, my research indicates that this operation has been plagued by the lack of reliable intelligence in the region. We had no human intelligence within Iraq due to the cuts in the 90s. And electronic surveillance is not of much value when dealing with low tech communications and closed societies.

It's really clever for a handful of people to say, years after the fact, "you screwed up." If we knew then what we know now, things would obviously be different.

Unfortunately, liberals don't learn from that. We KNOW what happened in Vietnam, yet liberals are intent upon repeating that failure and loss of prestige in the world.


Many things contributed to the loss of public support. Things like that stupid aircraft carrier landing and subsequent 'mission accomplished' speech. The media isnt at fault for that.
And why was that "stupid" or did you hear that in the media? Of course you know, Bush was responsible for the banner. And that the banner didn't mean we were finished in Iraq, but congratulating the returning crewmen on having completed THEIR missions.

Interestingly, I remember the day this happened, Liberals were complaining that this was unfair and that it gave Bush an unfair advantage going into the elections.

The media isnt at fault for the low troop count when we invaded, that was GW and Rummy's idea os a 'leaner meaner' military. The Media isnt responsible for the multitude of other mistakes that were made.
The media and left is responsible for the "kinder, gentler" military that we need. For the ridiculously hindering rules of engagement that cost American lives. For ridiculous scrutiny of the decisions made by soldiers in combat, from the safety of a D.C. office.

And they are responsible for the prolonged NEGATIVE coverage of events, ignoring the positive. They are responsible for calling Iraq a "quagmire" after the third week of the war.

Reality is, GW didnt expect to still be in Iraq. He fully expected the Iraqi people to behave like the europeans in WWII. We roll in, the people are thrilled, feel saved, and the US is a hero. This was naive and shortsided.
And you're knowledge of history is miserable. Post-WW2 Europe was no cake walk either. I'd explain this to you, AGAIN, but apparently, you've ignored the last half dozen threads that have specifically addressed the years following WW2 and the violence that took place there.

But, it is true, NO ONE expected Iraq to be in the situation it currently is in right now. Why? Not because the administration or military were stupid. Not because they'd didn't think about it. But because they had crappy intelligence.

The state of the Iraqi infrastructure was much worse than we thought. When we were hearing reports of "no power" in Iraqi cities after the war, the press failed to note how often that power was out PRIOR to the war as well.

Should we have gone to war? I dont know. I dont think we should have gone for the reasons stated at the time.
Hindsight makes everything so much easier.

I was never against the war per se, I jsut feel its been handled poorly, and still is. Unfortunately, the people dont appear willing to give the war a second chance, and GW doesnt appear ready to commit what is necessary to win.
And how would you like Bush to commit "what is necessary" if he has to battle the perception in the media and a Democrat Congress that is incrementally preparing to cut funding to the military and starve the operation?

Because that's what you don't understand. Even if you think the Bush administration made mistakes, the other side are COMPLETELY wrong. And when you support the Democrats to protest Bush, you are tacetly emboldening and enabling global terror.

There are no easy answers. There are no simple solutions. We're operating a new world. We don't have the luxury of a cold war, bipolar balance of power with rational actors on either side. People need to stop thinking in terms of those conventions regarding the war against Islamic Terror.

And they also need to watch the rest of the world. China, Russia, and any number of other nations will eager exploit our divisions and distractions in order to weaken our status in the world and elevate themselves.




Iran doesnt even fear us right now. They know how thin we are stretched, and they know there is no public support for yet another war. SO, while we now flounder in Iraq, Iran is building, and building and building a war machine that will be much harder to defeat in the future.
NO! Iran, and anyone with any understanding of military power, knows full well that we could decimate that military with nothing more than air power.

What Iran knows is that the U.S. public has no thresh hold for blood. They know that is we sustain even the most modest losses, we will cut and run. They know that the public lacks the will to act unilaterally. And they know they have willing allies in the media and Democrat party.

If we cut and run from Iraq, we will cement our image as a paper tiger. Our word will cease to have any value, and our threat will fail to intimidate. This perception of weakness will be exploited by every other nation in the world.

If we lose in Iraq, it's not just Iraq that will be less safe, the entire world will be.

This is what liberals just don't acknowledge.
And this is what too many shortsighted, unmotivated, and ill-informed American's don't seem to understand.
 
And why was that "stupid" or did you hear that in the media? Of course you know, Bush was responsible for the banner. And that the banner didn't mean we were finished in Iraq, but congratulating the returning crewmen on having completed THEIR missions.

Are you going to tell me, with a straight face, that that whole thing wasnt a campaign stop?

Come on. That was nothing more them GW boasting. This was pre-insurgency. Things 'looked' good for a moment, and GW seized on it purely for political gain. It was a show. GW had no business in the fighter jet and you know it. And since when does "Mission Accomplished" mean things arent substantially over in a successful tone?
 
Are you going to tell me, with a straight face, that that whole thing wasnt a campaign stop?
Yeah, I'll tell you that. It was a public appearance that was designed to improve moral among the troops and to make the American public feel good.

Define what a "campaign stop" is?

On the one hand you say that President should be able to get his message over the heads of a hostile media, and then on the other you condemn him for doing things that are designed to inspire.

Come on. That was nothing more them GW boasting. This was pre-insurgency. Things 'looked' good for a moment, and GW seized on it purely for political gain. It was a show. GW had no business in the fighter jet and you know it. And since when does "Mission Accomplished" mean things arent substantially over in a successful tone?
Why doesn't the Commander-In-Chief of the greatest military ever assembled in history, a man who served in the National Guard as a fighter pilot, not have any "business" in a jet when it inspires the nation and it makes improves the moral of every man and woman serving in the military at the time.

Frankly, I'm getting a little tired of repeating myself to you. Either you lack the ability to understand these simple points, or you simply refuse to acknowledge them.

-MISSION ACCOMPLISHED was a banner hung by the Navy, not President Bush.
-It was in reference to the crew members on the aircraft carrier returning to port, who had completed their mission in Iraq and now were returning home.
-And at the time, it was viewed as one of the best photo ops in Presidential history because it was so damn well done, sincere and motivational. If you had any shred of patriotism in you, it was moving to watch those events go down.

According to you, the President shouldn't do anything designed to improve moral or generate support for the mission. At the same rate you think he should be able to go over the heads of the media a lead.

This is yet another of the thoughtless and ridiculous claims you make. You've undoubtedly disliked Bush since he won the election in 2000 and you are invested in his failure. You fail to understand what the consequence of you success will be though. Before the war you didn't support him, after the war you think he should have used more troops....

So, while you weren't supporting the war in 2004, you supported sending another 100,000 troops?

You were one of the people trumping the Abu Ghraib charges, repeating the nonsense about torture, supporting the NY Times for releasing classified information in the newspaper. Yet, you think we should wage the war more aggressively?

Bullcrap, you and the people like you are dishonest and foolish.

There is nothing that this country is incapable of ultimately doing, so long as we are resolute. Unfortunately, too many people, many like you, are invested in our failure in Iraq.
 
On the one hand you say that President should be able to get his message over the heads of a hostile media, and then on the other you condemn him for doing things that are designed to inspire.

Inspire people to vote for him. Who are you kidding my friend? Come on! And you call liberals brainwashed!
 
If we cut and run from Iraq, we will cement our image as a paper tiger. Our word will cease to have any value, and our threat will fail to intimidate. This perception of weakness will be exploited by every other nation in the world.
Some say there is an on-going civil war in Iraq. However, Iraq for the most part is peaceful except for Baghdad to about 45 miles outside. Now, remove American troops before the Iraqi military is ready to take over and what do you have? Answer: A real civil war that would likely extend to all parts of the country.

Remember what happened after the U.S. left Vietnam? Answer: About 2 million Cambodians were murdered by Pol Pot, the prime minister of Cambodia. Having no regard for life, Pot murdered peasants and intellectuals alike in order to rid the country of those he thought would interfere with his plan to become a communist country. The same fundamental attitude among warring factions in Iraq exists. In other words, blood is not the only thing these factions want—they want to dominate the political machinery in Iraq and/or gain sufficient power as to lead Iraq in a direction suitable to them.

Given the hatred and thirst for blood that prevails among sectarian fanatics in Iraq, what do you think will happen if the U.S. leaves Iraq much like Vietnam?
 
Inspire people to vote for him. Who are you kidding my friend? Come on! And you call liberals brainwashed!

Do you have anything to offer to this conversation? I've addressed every ill-conceived and idiotic point you've attempted to make. Each response you make gets shorter, more targeted, and less intelligent.

I never said that he was "inspiring" people to vote for him. My point, in it's context is clear. The carrier landing, at the time, effectively inspired the public and the troops. It instilled a sense of patriotism, it motivated the troops, and it made everyone proud to be an American, if only a for a moment. If only until the liberal establishment could resume their quest to tear us down from the inside.

If you have anything thoughtful to add, I'll engage you. It's increasingly apparent you just want to get the last room while pretending you're intelligent.
 
Joeychgo said:
GW had no business in the fighter jet and you know it. And since when does "Mission Accomplished" mean things arent substantially over in a successful tone?

Let's see. An aircraft carrier goes over to the middle east, performs it's duties as asked and returns. The banner on the ship says Mission Accomplished. So what's the big deal? They accomplished their mission. The sign didn't say WAR OVER did it?

The media twisted the statement 'Mission Accomplished' just like they twisted the 'Stay the Course' message Bush was trying to convey to the American people.

I love the double-speak for liberals nowadays. When they get caught lying, the knew buzz-phrase is 'I misspoke'. must be the same thing as 'redeploy'. Just come out and say 'cut and run'. I'd have alot more respect for liberals if they would just come to grips with who they are.

And last, I thought, as did most Americans, that it was cool as hell seeing the President of the United States fly onto an aircraft carrier. Cool as hell. Now if Bubba did it, it would be a joke. But you see, Bush WAS a fighter pilot so it made perfect sense. Only your distaste for Bush forbids you to acknowledge these 'facts'.:cool:
 
If only until the liberal establishment could resume their quest to tear us down from the inside.

Man do i look forward to your conversations. You truly hit things right on the head and you write quite eloquently. I'm totally jealous. That's what I get for hating english class when I was in school.
 
Inspire people to vote for him. Who are you kidding my friend? Come on! And you call liberals brainwashed!

Liberals always judge Republican Presidents by the Clinton yardstick. They simply cannot believe that any president can actually care about anything other than himself, and you have Slick Willie to thank for that mindset.

Who's brainwashed now?
 
that just broke my heart i saw that video before but not as clear as this link u put up. i am at a loss for words.
 
that just broke my heart i saw that video before but not as clear as this link u put up. i am at a loss for words.
When they did that to him and then Nick Berg, that was my tipping point and I said to myself we have to win at any cost because they will do anything they have to do to kill us.

Just read an article that talks about how much trouble Europe is in because of all the Muslims that have 'infiltrated' their nations. Europe is in for a rude awakening.
 
The war in Iraq was poorly prosecuted, plain and simple.

The war in Iraq was the best planned, best executed military campaign in the history of the world, esp. the modern world. U can critisize the occupation, but the war was near perfect.
 
The war in Iraq was the best planned, best executed military campaign in the history of the world, esp. the modern world. U can critisize the occupation, but the war was near perfect.

Forgive me if I was unclear. Its the management of the occupation that I criticize.
 

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