How Jon Stewart Went Bad

shagdrum

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How Jon Stewart Went Bad
by Tucker Carlson

There is a virtual ban on criticism of him in the press. Uncritical praise corrupts absolutely.

Jon Stewart’s recent attack on CNBC’s Jim Cramer was so brilliantly performed, so smoothly produced and cruelly compelling, almost nobody noticed that it didn’t make sense. The climax came as Stewart put up a number of grainy clips of Cramer describing how to artificially (and unethically) depress a company’s stock price. The video was damning. Cramer looked sweaty.

Stewart summed up the significance of what Cramer had said on the tape: “You can draw a straight line from those shenanigans to the stuff that was being pulled at Bear and at AIG, and all this derivative-market stuff,” he said sternly.

Except that you can’t draw any such line. In the video, Cramer hadn’t mentioned derivates or securitized loans or credit-default swaps, or any of the other exotic financial instruments that caused the fall of AIG and the current recession. There’s no evidence that Jim Cramer had anything to do with any of that, and Stewart didn’t offer any.

Before Cramer could defend himself, Stewart moved on to a new charge: Cramer and his colleagues at CNBC had known that the financial sector was in imminent danger of collapse, but had pretended otherwise—a ruse that Stewart described as “disingenuous at best and criminal at worst.”

This was even more farther-fetched. A ratings-hungry TV network had the scoop of the decade but decided to sit on it? Why? In order to curry favor with soon-to-be-disgraced corporate executives? It didn’t make sense.

No matter. Cramer was almost incoherent by this point, cringing and apologetic. Stewart was becoming furious. “I understand you want to make finance interesting,” he said, “but it’s not a :q:q:q:qing game. And I, I, I—when I watch that, I can’t tell you how angry that makes me.”

Cynics might assume that the fury was a pose. Humor requires ironic detachment, and nobody as funny and sophisticated as Jon Stewart could possibly be getting that mad on TV over something so abstract. A fair assumption, but wrong. Stewart really was enraged. It was all entirely, strangely real.

I know this from my own run-in with Stewart, on CNN’s Crossfire a few weeks before the 2004 election. Stewart spent a couple of segments lecturing Paul Begala and me about how we were somehow “helping the politicians and the corporations,” a charge that baffled me then (I’ve never particularly liked either one), as it does now.

Unlike most guests after an uncomfortable show, Stewart didn’t flee once it was over, but lingered backstage to press his point. With the cameras off, he dropped the sarcasm and the nastiness, but not the intensity. I can still picture him standing outside the makeup room, gesticulating as the rest of us tried to figure out what he was talking about. It was one of the weirdest things I have ever seen.

Finally, I had to leave to make a dinner. Stewart shook my hand with what seemed like friendly sincerity and continued to lecture our staff. An hour later, one of my producers called me, sounding desperate. Stewart was still there, and still talking.

No one this earnest can remain an effective satirist, and at times Stewart seems like less a comedian than a courtier to the establishment. In August 2004, a week before the Republican convention, Stewart got an interview with then-candidate John Kerry. At the time, reporters covering Kerry couldn’t get closer than the rope line, so the interview qualified as a booking coup.

Stewart squandered it embarrassingly. His first question (after, “How are you holding up?”) was: “Is it a difficult thing not to take it personally” when your opponents are mean?

“You know what it is, Jon?” Kerry replied. “It’s disappointing.”

Four years later, Stewart had become, if anything, even softer. Over the course of a reverential eight-and-a-half minute interview with Barack Obama six days before the election, Stewart failed to ask a single substantive question, much less venture into policy (though, as with Kerry, he did open with, “How are you holding up?”). Instead, like the cable-news morons that he often criticizes, Stewart stuck strictly to the horserace, at one point even resorting to a sports metaphor.

And he sucked up, hard. “So much of this has been about fear of you,” Stewart empathized. “Has any of this fear stuff stuck with the electorate?”

Facing puffballs like this, Obama coasted through with snippets from his stump speech. The result wasn’t simply uninformative, it was boring. Obama didn’t say a single interesting thing, and Stewart wasn’t funny.

If you didn’t actually see the show, you wouldn’t know any of this, since there is a virtual ban on critical stories about Jon Stewart in the press. Nobody in memory has received a longer free ride. (CNBC stands in such awe of Stewart, the network hasn’t even tried to defend itself, even against his claim that its programming might be criminal.)

The relationship between Stewart and the media is a marriage of the self-loathing and the self-loving: He insists their real news is fake, they insist his fake news is real. He doesn't take them seriously at all. They take him way too seriously. But nobody takes anybody as seriously as Jon Stewart takes himself.

A serious man needs a serious mission, however, and this is suddenly a problem. With Bush gone and the Republican Party in chaos, most of Stewart’s targets have disappeared. Yet rather than pivot with the times and challenge those now in power, Stewart continues to attack the same old enemies, at this point mostly straw men and pipsqueaks. A couple of weeks ago, he spent an entire seven minutes mocking the crowd at a CPAC conference.

His studio audience loved it, though that isn’t saying much. Stewart’s audience would erupt if he read the phone book, or did his monologue in German, a response that over time is a threat to any man’s soul. During many segments, Stewart’s audience doesn’t laugh so much as cheer, a distinction that would bother most comedians. Stewart keeps them around anyway. Uncritical praise corrupts absolutely.

As Stewart becomes more self-righteous, he inevitably becomes less funny. Sanctimony is the death of humor, and also of innovation. Where a show like South Park challenges its audience’s every conceivable assumption, The Daily Show has become safer than Jay Leno, pandering night after night to the converted. Can you remember the last time Stewart said anything his viewers might disagree with?

Like most sermons, Stewart’s showdown with Jim Cramer ended with a neat moral lesson. Once journalists who cover business regain their sense of responsibility and “start getting back to fundamentals on the reporting,” Stewart said gravely, “I can get back to making fart noises and funny faces.”

But it’s too late. The great comedian is gone, maybe forever. Jon Stewart is stuck in lecture mode.
 
Tucker Carlson is just a run of the mill pundit still hard feeling the cancellation of Crossfire.

Stewart summed up the significance of what Cramer had said on the tape: “You can draw a straight line from those shenanigans to the stuff that was being pulled at Bear and at AIG, and all this derivative-market stuff,” he said sternly.
Of course one can draw a line between short selling shenanigans and the exotic financial instruments Wall street was peddling.

Derivates or securitized loans or credit-default swaps, or any of the other financial instruments that caused the fall of AIG and the current recession are shenanigans thought up by the "smartest guys in the room"
who wound up outsmarting themselves.
The constantly expanding real estate bubble was a thing that was too good to be true to continue indefinately.
It was a fakely created wealth that has now been corrected in this most spectacular fashion.
Carlson is a pipsqueak and this is his way of getting some (fleeting) attention.
Stewart has become an Icon for young Americans and will continue to be even more well regarded and respected.
 
You can see the unedited interview here - It is fun to watch Cramer squirm, and you got to catch the Martha Stewart bit...
 
Of course one can draw a line between short selling shenanigans and the exotic financial instruments Wall street was peddling.

Derivates or securitized loans or credit-default swaps, or any of the other financial instruments that caused the fall of AIG and the current recession are shenanigans thought up by the "smartest guys in the room"
who wound up outsmarting themselves.
The constantly expanding real estate bubble was a thing that was too good to be true to continue indefinately.
It was a fakely created wealth that has now been corrected in this most spectacular fashion.

If that "straight line" can be drawn, then please do it. What you have offered is nothing more then a collection of unrelated points that don't, in any way, draw a straight line.

The fact of the matter is, the CRA, as strengthened under Clinton, put lenders for the largest, and supposedly most stable personal loans (home loans) into a corner. It created a lot of unnecessary and counterproductive risk for the lenders in meeting those CRA requirements each year. So, to reduce the risk and meet those requirements, the lenders created these financial mechanisms. Other lenders started utilizing these mechanisms as well and, over time, large parts of the housing market and the credit industry were tied into these.

What you are arguing is absurdly irrational and incoherent. "Derivates or securitized loans or credit-default swaps, or any of the other financial instruments that caused the fall of AIG and the current recession are shenanigans thought up by the 'smartest guys in the room'". How does that show that the short selling shenanigans are connected directly to the "exotic financial instruments Wall street was peddling"?

Or, as to use what the article was talking about; where is the line between the shenanigans aimed at "artificially (and unethically) depress a company’s stock price", and the "derivative-market stuff"?

What you wrote mischaracterizes what the article was talking about and is flat out incoherent! Maybe you should take a step back, wipe the froth from your mouth and develop a coherent and reasonable response. ;)
 
"Derivates or securitized loans or credit-default swaps, or any of the other financial instruments that caused the fall of AIG and the current recession are shenanigans thought up by the 'smartest guys in the room'". How does that show that the short selling shenanigans are connected directly to the "exotic financial instruments Wall street was peddling"?

To me exotic financial instruments ARE shenanigans in and of themselves.
These devices do not represent any real work accomplished.
They are just tools to allow further leveraging of other people's money to reckless levels for commisions on the assumption that
positions have been covered and risk is in check as long as things keep rising.

The link is exotic financial instruments allowed for the confidence(game) overselling of the market. Business reporting has turned into shallow info entertainment (In Cramer we Trust) instead of real analysis.
This betrays the public while earning commision for Wall St.

vs

Cramer's individual past rummor mongoring to earn a quick unethical profit.
Maybe to you this isn't an exactly direct link but the ethics are the same.
 
To me exotic financial instruments ARE shenanigans in and of themselves.

No disagreement, but those are not the type of "shenanigans" being discussed by Stewart in referencing Cramer in the clips. He is specifically talking about the type that, "artificially (and unethically) depress a company’s stock price" and then connecting that to, "the stuff that was being pulled at Bear and at AIG, and all this derivative-market stuff".

The stuff Bear, AIG, etc was pulling had the effect of artificially inflating the stock prices, if anything; that is what an economic bubble is.

The link is exotic financial instruments allowed for the confidence(game) overselling of the market.

But that wouldn't depress a company's stock, it would inflate it.

Business reporting has turned into shallow info entertainment (In Cramer we Trust) instead of real analysis.

There is the shallow entertainment aspect of it, and Cramer definitely employs that in his style. But that doesn't mean that there is no real analysis involved. It isn't an either/or thing. Limbaugh does both (regardless of weather you agree with his analysis'). There are plenty of other.

Stewart, masquerades as real analysis in a comedy (entertainment) show. Unfortunately, pop culture and the younger generation take him seriously and thus, Stewart tends to dictate pop culture. Where is his "social responsibility"?

This betrays the public while earning commision for Wall St.

Why would someone in news organization work to sacrifice their credibility in the long term (which is there strongest asset with their audience/consumers) to favor Wall Street?

Cramer's individual past rumor mongering to earn a quick unethical profit.

What is "unethical" about it? He is being perfectly honest.

Maybe to you this isn't an exactly direct link but the ethics are the same.

No, it is decidedly not a direct link, or "direct line", as Stewart claims.

Questionable ethics were involved in both artificially inflating and artificially depressing stocks. But those type of mechanisms are aimed at completely different goals, and are not connected.

You also have to take into context why those methods were utilized in the instances in question; put them in context and perspective. You also need to look into the context of what Cramer was talking about in the clips Stewart is bouncing off of; not simply take quotes out of context and draw a conclusion about how ethical they are.
 
Quote:
Cramer's individual past rumor mongering to earn a quick unethical profit.
What is "unethical" about it? He is being perfectly honest.


The climax came as Stewart put up a number of grainy clips of Cramer describing how to artificially (and unethically) depress a company’s stock price. The video was damning. Cramer looked sweaty.

Well Tucker states that Cramer was being unethical by rumor mongering and I agree.

I guess shag you're training to be a lawyer as you seem to parse things down to the nth level.

One action depressed a stock, the other raised it's value.
Different yes but to me 2 sides of the same manipulation coin.

He is being perfectly honest
He's making a false statement he knows to be untrue.
How is that not only honest but perfectly honest?
 
Shag, did you see the 'grainy' footage where Cramer was talking about how he 'deflated' Apple stock by spreading rumors that no wireless carrier was going to support the then 'new' iphone? He knew that Apple has a policy of not going after rumor mongers, and Cramer, with that knowledge, was able to depress Apple stock for a couple of days, buy low... and then, when the rumor turned out to be false (surprise!) - the stock went back up to 'pre-rumor' levels and then Cramer was able to turn a profit by reselling that short hold.

So, what do you think about Cramer's manipulation in the case of Apple? Should a wall street pundit, who has access to media outlets, be able to spread rumors regarding companies that would either deflate or inflate the value of that companies stock? Cramer's position within that media allows him to manipulate stock for his own gain (in the case of Apple - Cramer made money), would you call this 'ethical'? It doesn't even have to be for his own gain - he could be consulting with others.
 
Well Tucker states that Cramer was being unethical by rumor mongering and I agree.

But Tucker is not calling Cramer unethical, he is calling the actions Cramer is describing unethical. So the context of Cramer's describing of those actions is very important.

I guess shag you're training to be a lawyer

No reason to get insulting. Lawyers tend to have all intellectual honesty removed in the 1st year of law school.

One action depressed a stock, the other raised it's value.
Different yes but to me 2 sides of the same manipulation coin.

Not sure I would agree with that analogy, but yes, both are manipulative. Again, what is the context of those mechanisms being created and/or implemented?

He's making a false statement he knows to be untrue.
How is that not only honest but perfectly honest?

What "false statements"? That is a vague claim stemming from your claim that Cramer is "rumor mongering in order to earn a quick, unethical profit". That is an absurd exaggeration. However, there is no evidence that Cramer was in any way "rumor mongering" unless you expand the definition of "rumor mongering" to such an absurd level as to make the definition irrelevant. Cramer is giving his informed and knowledgeable opinion. Where is the "rumor mongering" there? Where are the "false statements" involved in that?

Stewart was referencing specific videos in his response. Carlson characterized it as, "Cramer describing how to artificially (and unethically) depress a company’s stock price". The actions Cramer was describing were real and had a real effect. So, where is the "rumor mongering" and/or "false statements"? Simply describing something doesn't mean you condone it. Again, context is very important.

Cramer's profit comes from the show. If the show loses credibility, that cuts into his profits, in the long run. So there is no reason to think he would intentionally spread falsehoods because it is in his interest in some fashion, unless you are accusing him of trying to manipulate the market, which is not at all what Stewart was talking about.
 
Shag, did you see the 'grainy' footage where Cramer was talking about how he 'deflated' Apple stock by spreading rumors that no wireless carrier was going to support the then 'new' iphone?

I must have missed the part where he said he was involved in that. Could you point it out? I could only find him discussing it. No indication that he was involved in it. And the clip, as Stewart presented it, was edited to take it out of context of what the bigger discussion was. Do you have the full, unedited clip and does it show that Cramer was involved in that?

Otherwise you are simply claiming Cramer was involved because he was discussing it. By that logic, we should take any prosecution lawyer who tries a murder case and charge them with that murder because they described the murder in the trial. How about all the reporters who covered the OJ trial? :rolleyes:
 
I must have missed the part where he said he was involved in that. Could you point it out? I could only find him discussing it. No indication that he was involved in it. And the clip, as Stewart presented it, was edited to take it out of context of what the bigger discussion was. Do you have the full, unedited clip and does it show that Cramer was involved in that?

Shag, you are right - Cramer is speculating there...

The original video has seemed to be removed from everything – including ‘The Street’ - the original source… Cramer’s site… Meaning they took it down for ‘some’ reason.

It no doubt has been edited – but certainly the bit Stewart has, regarding Apple stock manipulation is ‘whole’. I am not sure what on before or after…

Cramer gave the interview to Aaron Task on Dec. 22, 2006, two and a half weeks before Macworld 2007 — the one at which Steve Jobs introduced the iPhone. Cramer was not a hedge fund manager at the time… Merely a ‘pundit’.

“You can’t create yourself an impression that a stock is down, but you do it anyway because the SEC doesn’t understand it … Apple’s very important to spread the rumor that both Verizon and AT&T have decided they don’t like the phone … You also want to spread the rumor that it’s not going to be ready for Macworld. And this is very easy because the people who write about Apple want that story, and you can claim that it’s credible because you spoke to someone at Apple, ’cause Apple doesn’t … they’re not going to comment … So it’s really an ideal short. And again if I were short Apple, I’d pick up the phone and I’d do that today.“

Apple stock decreased 7% from 12/15 to 12/27 in 2006 – I am sure there were lots of factors – but, usually with Apple stock (I have owned lots in the past – not so much now) any rumor sends the stock flopping all over the place.

It certainly isn’t out of the realm of possibility that Cramer’s ‘hypothetical’ remarks influenced Apple stock.

Plus, is it ethical to tell people how to exactly manipulate a particular stock? In great detail?

Otherwise you are simply claiming Cramer was involved because he was discussing it. By that logic, we should take any prosecution lawyer who tries a murder case and charge them with that murder because they described the murder in the trial. How about all the reporters who covered the OJ trial? :rolleyes:

But, you claim that the current administration influences the stock market by discussing it. There are lots of people who influence the stock market.

Discussing a murder that has already happened is quite different that explaining a murder before it happens, and then miraculously that murder takes place. Did the person who outlined the perfect crime, commit it? Maybe not. But, did someone die? Yep. Would they have died in spite of the description of the murder. Unknown.
 
Shag, you are right - Cramer is speculating there...

I never said he was speculating...

Cramer gave the interview to Aaron Task on Dec. 22, 2006, two and a half weeks before Macworld 2007 — the one at which Steve Jobs introduced the iPhone. Cramer was not a hedge fund manager at the time… Merely a ‘pundit’.

“You can’t create yourself an impression that a stock is down, but you do it anyway because the SEC doesn’t understand it … Apple’s very important to spread the rumor that both Verizon and AT&T have decided they don’t like the phone … You also want to spread the rumor that it’s not going to be ready for Macworld. And this is very easy because the people who write about Apple want that story, and you can claim that it’s credible because you spoke to someone at Apple, ’cause Apple doesn’t … they’re not going to comment … So it’s really an ideal short. And again if I were short Apple, I’d pick up the phone and I’d do that today.“

Apple stock decreased 7% from 12/15 to 12/27 in 2006 – I am sure there were lots of factors – but, usually with Apple stock (I have owned lots in the past – not so much now) any rumor sends the stock flopping all over the place.

It certainly isn’t out of the realm of possibility that Cramer’s ‘hypothetical’ remarks influenced Apple stock.

So...now you are arguing that perception is reality, but, if I remember correctly, you were denying that very fact in regards to Obama.

It is absurd speculation to suggest that Cramer's comments in that show caused a 7% drop. It would take a lot more then Cramer's comments on a single show in a single interview to cause that. If it was Steve Job's, maybe. Or if that topic was being discussed by a number of different shows around the same time, maybe it would have that effect. But what you are suggesting is absurd and in fact is out of the realm of possibility.

Plus, is it ethical to tell people how to exactly manipulate a particular stock? In great detail?

You are mischaracterizing and misdirecting. Cramer was not intentionally informing people so they can go out and do what he is talking about, like you imply. There is absolutely nothing unethical about explaining something in the context of that show. In fact, it would arguably be unethical to willfully leave people in ignorance in a forum like that.

An explanation of the means of how a negative act is accomplished is not wrong or unethical because of the possibility that someone might repeat that act. Or do you think we should not learn from our past?

Face it. What Stewart did was nothing more then misdirection through an implied smearing of Cramer and business news.

But, you claim that the current administration influences the stock market by discussing it. There are lots of people who influence the stock market.

Any effect Cramer may have had in the interview (in the context it was given) or on his show is so minor as to be effectively non-existent. However, the president, using the bully pulpit inherent in the office and with a friendly legislature and media echoing everything he says, can have a tremendous effect.

There is a matter of scale here that you are missing.

Here is an interesting point Stewart made:
To pretend that this was some of crazy, once in a lifetime tsunami that nobody could have seen coming is disingenuous at best and criminal at worst.
Now, Bush and McCain (as well as many other conservatives) are on record years ago seeing this problem on the horizon and trying to fix it (see this article on Bush's failed attempt to increase regulation in response, and keep in mind that McCain cosponsored the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005).

Now keep in mind these facts:
  • The Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005 was killed chiefly by Senator Chris Dodd [D-Connecticut].
  • As chairman of the Senate Banking committee, Chris Dodd [D-Connecticut] specifically added an amendment into the TARP bill that allowed for the payment of, "contractually obligated bonuses agreed on before Feb. 11, 2009". Dodd recently denied adding that exemption, and later admitted it on CNN.
  • As the ranking Democrat on the House Financial Services Committee, Representative Barney Frank [D- Massachusetts] actively worked against Bush's attempted overhaul of Fannie and Freddie regulation in 2003. Frank said, "These two entities — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — are not facing any kind of financial crisis...The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing"
  • At Office of the Federal Housing Enterprise Oversite (OFHEO) hearing in 2004, Barney Frank [D- Massachusetts] said that the report of illegal activity by Fannie Mae does not, "raise safety and soundness of Fannie Mae investments problems at issue."

There are many other examples of Democrats disingenuously denying these problems and now reversing themselves and smearing others to misdirect. The "disingenuous at best and criminal at worst" attempt to claim that this is something no one could see coming is decidedly coming from one side of the isle here.
 
Something not mentioned was how Cramer's composure
quickly fell to the point where with his voice pitched higher,it seemed like he was almost going to burst into tears under Stewart's onslaught.
He seemed like a child being scolded for behaving badly.
He didn't defend himself well especially when Stewart played the videos of him describing short selling manipulations.
He didn't try to explain the context of his statements in the videos or the video's themselves.
Without him attempting context it helped greatly infer that he probably engaged in short selling manipulations at one time or another and was part of the problems Stewart was ranting about.
 
Without him attempting context it helped greatly infer that he probably engaged in short selling manipulations at one time or another and was part of the problems Stewart was ranting about.

Agreed. I think it was stupid of him to go on Stewart's shows. Stewart wasn't interested in any honest, civil discussion; he kept Cramer on the defensive the whole time through rude and dishonest tactics, I might add. Can't have a reasonable debate with someone like that. Cramer should have been more aggressive and put Stewart on the defensive a few times. When it became clear that Stewart wasn't going to be reasonable, Cramer should have walked off the set. That is the only way you can handle a pompous, dishonest hack like Stewart, IMO.
 
It looks like Stewart got to Cramer. He's completely caved. He's singing Obama's praises now.
 
Once he was on the show, it was a no win situation. He probably figured it was best to just be likable. Walking off the set would have been a "loss." And there no way to argue or explain what he was talking about in a way, in a sound byte, that wouldn't have just made him look bad for something else.
 
That's what separates Rush from weasels like Cramer. Rush got burned on network TV years ago, and he refuses to go on unless he knows what the format will be. So he is able to continue to thunder at Obama from the golden EIB microphone, and he doesn't have to apologize for crap. They can whine all they want, but he doesn't get put in a 'gotcha' situation, and that's all that matters.

People who take on the Dems should benchmark how Rush handles them. He sets the standard for how to do it correctly.
 
That kind of approach usually comes after a fair deal of success, but more importantly, considerable experience getting burned earlier in your career.
 
I never said he was speculating...

Not speculating as in stock speculation - speculating as in the first definition in the dictionary...
to engage in thought or reflection; meditate (often fol. by on, upon, or a clause).

Cramer was reflecting on the possibility that if you spread rumors regarding Apple you could make money on their stock.

It is absurd speculation to suggest that Cramer's comments in that show caused a 7% drop. It would take a lot more then Cramer's comments on a single show in a single interview to cause that.

I said that many things effect stock - but, Cramer was discussing the fact that spreading rumors about Apple would cause the stock to fluctuate... So, if you say that Cramer has creds regarding his philosophy - then, spreading rumors will affect stock prices. He created an atmosphere, by just 'mentioning' the problems that could happen if no carrier would support the iPhone... that is spreading a rumor.

Cramer was not intentionally informing people so they can go out and do what he is talking about, like you imply. There is absolutely nothing unethical about explaining something in the context of that show. In fact, it would arguably be unethical to willfully leave people in ignorance in a forum like that.

Nope, Cramer specifically said "So it’s really an ideal short. And again if I were short Apple, I’d pick up the phone and I’d do that today.“

He very specifically gave directions on how to manipulate Apple's stock and then he very specifically said that if you are short Apple, you pick up the phone and start the rumor. He was intentionally giving a 'mini-seminar' on how to effectively manipulate Apple stock.

But, shag, there are two very interesting points here beyond the interview - One, is your obvious dislike of Jon Stewart, it seems a bit tetched actually. And two - even though you obviously don't speculate a lot in the market - I would imagine you aren't leveraged very heavily in stocks, you are standing up for Cramer. Have you watched him a lot? Have you paid much attention to him before now? Foss is right -
That's what separates Rush from weasels like Cramer.
He is fairly weasel-y. Unless you have 'hedge fund manager' as a career goal, or deal a lot in specific stocks, I can't imagine you have run across him a lot in the past. I only know of him, because he often comments on Apple - early in 2008 he said 'don't buy' Apple, and then for 6 months it rose and gained about 33%. Apple usually bites him, and I think that is why he keeps using it on his show. So, to defend a weasel, and his rather unethical ways, to further illustrate your extreme repugnance of Stewart, seems a bit over the top.
 
I like Stewart.
Witty and nobody's fool.
Now he's going after Obama about his proposal for putting wounded veterans
onto their private insurance to pay for their war wounds instead of the government paying it.
 
Not speculating as in stock speculation - speculating as in the first definition in the dictionary...
to engage in thought or reflection; meditate (often fol. by on, upon, or a clause).

Cramer was reflecting on the possibility that if you spread rumors regarding Apple you could make money on their stock.

Cramer wasn't "reflecting". Cramer was explaining. There is absolutely nothing unethical about that in the context of that show.

I said that many things effect stock - but, Cramer was discussing the fact that spreading rumors about Apple would cause the stock to fluctuate... So, if you say that Cramer has creds regarding his philosophy - then, spreading rumors will affect stock prices. He created an atmosphere, by just 'mentioning' the problems that could happen if no carrier would support the iPhone... that is spreading a rumor.

He did not create any "atmosphere" of any sort. What he said on that show doesn't have enough influence to create any "atmosphere" that could have any effect like you are talking about. You are trying to attribute things to him that he is not, in any reasonable sense, responsible for; you are trying to manufacture responsibility for something that you cannot prove even happened.

and...what is that about "philosophy"? There is not philosophy involved here.

Nope, Cramer specifically said "So it’s really an ideal short. And again if I were short Apple, I’d pick up the phone and I’d do that today.“

He very specifically gave directions on how to manipulate Apple's stock and then he very specifically said that if you are short Apple, you pick up the phone and start the rumor. He was intentionally giving a 'mini-seminar' on how to effectively manipulate Apple stock.

Again, Cramer was explaining how something could be done. It was purely a hypothetical. There was no "mini-seminar"; no call to action involved in any way. You are having to spin to try and create some duplicitous agenda on his part when there wasn't any. :rolleyes:

But, shag, there are two very interesting points here beyond the interview - One, is your obvious dislike of Jon Stewart, it seems a bit tetched actually. And two - even though you obviously don't speculate a lot in the market - I would imagine you aren't leveraged very heavily in stocks, you are standing up for Cramer. Have you watched him a lot? Have you paid much attention to him before now? Foss is right -

And this is somehow relevant outside of an ad hominem smear?

The fact that you have to spin and manufacture things to try and justify this obvious smear of Cramer is rather telling. Obtuse and intellectually dishonest to the core, eh? ;)
 

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