How Republicans Win if We Lose in Iraq

TheDude

Dedicated LVC Member
Joined
May 17, 2005
Messages
4,132
Reaction score
755
Location
Santa Rosa, Ca
Bush and the GOP are shifting tactics just like Nixon did with Vietnam -- to win the next election, not the war.

by Rosa Brooks

If you think the growing similarity between Iraq and Vietnam is tragic but inadvertent, you're not being cynical enough.

During the first years of the Iraq war, any resemblance to Vietnam was the result of the Bush administration's disastrous miscalculations. But today, the Iraq war is looking more and more like the Vietnam War because that's exactly what suits the White House.

Writing on this page Thursday, Jonah Goldberg praised President Bush for telling Americans that "he will settle for nothing less than winning" in Iraq. Sure, Goldberg acknowledged, Bush "may be deluding himself," but at least he's "trying to win." No, he's not.

It's clear that Bush knows perfectly well there's no possibility of "winning" anymore, so apparently he's seeking in Iraq exactly what Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger sought in Vietnam before the 1972 election: a face-saving "decent interval" before the virtually inevitable collapse of the U.S.-backed government.

By 1971, Nixon and Kissinger understood that "winning" in Vietnam was no longer in the cards — so they shifted from trying to win the war to trying to win the next election. As Nixon put it in March 1971: "We can't have [the South Vietnamese] knocked over brutally … " Kissinger finished the thought " … before the election." So Nixon and Kissinger pushed the South Vietnamese to "stand on their own," promising we'd support them if necessary. But at the same time, Kissinger assured the North Vietnamese — through China — that the U.S. wouldn't intervene to prevent a North Vietnamese victory — as long as that victory didn't come with embarrassing speed.

As historian Jeffrey Kimball has documented, Kissinger's talking points for his first meeting with Chinese Premier Chou En-lai on the topic of Vietnam included a promise that the U.S. would withdraw all troops and "leave the political evolution of Vietnam to the Vietnamese." The U.S. would "let objective realities" — North Vietnamese military superiority — "shape the political future." In the margins of his briefing book, Kissinger scrawled a handwritten elaboration for Chou: "We want a decent interval. You have our assurance."

The "decent interval" strategy worked. By declaring that "peace was at hand," Kissinger took the wind out of antiwar Democrat George McGovern's sails, and Nixon won reelection. And though Nixon himself later fell to the Watergate scandal, the Republican Party successfully used the "decent interval" to cast the Democratic Party in the role of spoiler.

In December 1974, tired of hemorrhaging funds to prop up the failing South Vietnamese government, the Democrat-controlled Congress finally pulled the plug on further U.S. financial support. The following April, Saigon fell, just as Kissinger and Nixon had privately predicted. But enough time had elapsed for Republicans to pin the blame on South Vietnamese missteps and, most important, on the perfidy of the Democratic Party.

In the end, the Vietnam War was a terrible tragedy for the both the U.S. and the Vietnamese — but it was a great success for the Republican Party. Nixon and Kissinger's "decent interval" created the myth of the Democratic Party as weak and anti-military and helped keep the White House in Republican hands for all but 12 of the last 30 years.

Bush's "surge" is the "decent interval" redux. It's too little, too late, and it relies on the Iraqis to do what we know full well they can't do. There is no realistic likelihood that it will lead to an enduring solution in Iraq. But it may well provide the decent interval the GOP needs if it is to survive beyond the 2008 elections.

The surge makes Bush look, as Goldberg suggests, like he really wants to win, even as he refuses to take the necessary and honest steps to mitigate the terrible damage we've already done. The surge buys time — and meanwhile, the Democratic Party is placed in the same untenable position it was in during the last stages of the Vietnam War.

If it backs Bush's feckless plan, it loses credibility with the voters, who hate the war. But if it opposes the escalation, it will be attacked for undermining the military. Ann Coulter offered a preview last week: "Democrats want to cut and run as fast as possible from Iraq, betraying the Iraqis who supported us and rewarding our enemies — exactly as they did to the South Vietnamese."

The Democrats need to break out of the script the White House has written for them and remind Americans that the war in Iraq is a dangerous distraction from other pressing threats to U.S. security, such as nuclear proliferation and the rise of militant Islam worldwide. They need to emphasize that withdrawal from Iraq isn't about "defeat" — it's about shifting our troops, our money and our energy to the real challenges that the Bush administration is ignoring or exacerbating.

At this point, the Republicans win by losing in Iraq — as long as they can blame the loss on the Democrats. And unless they find a way to refuse to play the game, the Democrats will just lose.

http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0112-22.htm

-Things to look for in the future... Will the "surge" change the tide of war, will the Iraqi government collapse and how far will the Republicans blame the Democrats if that happens.
 
I would recommend to all people to avoid websites like commondream.org- it's almost as bad as someone quoting Alex Jones on the right.

With that said, Rosa Brooks needs to spend some more time reading about history and understanding foreign policy, instead of misrepresenting and misleading her readers.

If you think the growing similarity between Iraq and Vietnam is tragic but inadvertent, you're not being cynical enough.
The similarities are the result of the American political left engaging in the same kind of subversive behavior as they did during Vietnam. The difference is that this time we are dealing with a MORE media savvy enemy who is even BETTER able to manipulate them.

It's clear that Bush knows perfectly well there's no possibility of "winning" anymore, so apparently he's seeking in Iraq exactly what Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger sought in Vietnam before the 1972 election: a face-saving "decent interval" before the virtually inevitable collapse of the U.S.-backed government.
Let's first establish that it was not Nixon who got the U.S. involved in Vietnam, it was an issue he inherited from the Johnson adminstration.

Let's also acknowledge that it was under the escalation under Nixon where massive military gains were made. It was also under Nixon the draft was lifted.

Unfortunately the popular support behind the war had been severely undermined by the anti-American left, and it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to win a war without the support of the public.

The reality is, the U.S. was winning the war in Vietnam. The Vietnamese were simply try to struggle along long enough for the internal dissent within our country to cause us to pull out.

The U.S. negotiated a successful peace before the military withdrawl from the country. The country collapsed after the DEMOCRATS CUT OFF ALL FUNDING.

Sound familiar?

The similarities between these two wars aren't because of the situation, the nature of the warfare, or the goals of the Republican administration. The problem is that the left wing is engaged in the same kind of destructive activism and subversion, the enemy knows how to manipulate it...
 
Rosa - you just got *owned*

"Who is more foolish - the fool, or the man who follows him?"

-- Obi-Wan Kenobi
 
Calabrio said:
I would recommend to all people to avoid websites like commondream.org- it's almost as bad as someone quoting Alex Jones on the right.

With that said, Rosa Brooks needs to spend some more time reading about history and understanding foreign policy, instead of misrepresenting and misleading her readers.


The similarities are the result of the American political left engaging in the same kind of subversive behavior as they did during Vietnam. The difference is that this time we are dealing with a MORE media savvy enemy who is even BETTER able to manipulate them.


Let's first establish that it was not Nixon who got the U.S. involved in Vietnam, it was an issue he inherited from the Johnson adminstration.

Let's also acknowledge that it was under the escalation under Nixon where massive military gains were made. It was also under Nixon the draft was lifted.

Unfortunately the popular support behind the war had been severely undermined by the anti-American left, and it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to win a war without the support of the public.

The reality is, the U.S. was winning the war in Vietnam. The Vietnamese were simply try to struggle along long enough for the internal dissent within our country to cause us to pull out.

The U.S. negotiated a successful peace before the military withdrawl from the country. The country collapsed after the DEMOCRATS CUT OFF ALL FUNDING.

Sound familiar?

The similarities between these two wars aren't because of the situation, the nature of the warfare, or the goals of the Republican administration. The problem is that the left wing is engaged in the same kind of destructive activism and subversion, the enemy knows how to manipulate it...

For the record, I never knew the site in question existed until I received the article via email, so I'll take your word that it is an "extremist" site.

The reason I posted it was mainly to two reasons:
1) Will the "surge" be enough to change anything or is it too little and/or too late.
2) The point-the-finger-blame-game that often goes on in politics.

Thanks for your insights though.
 
fossten said:
Bak. Derk-derk-allah, Mohammed Jihad. Baka, sherpa-sherpa. Abaka-la.

bodysnatchershp9.jpg
 
95DevilleNS said:
For the record, I never knew the site in question existed until I received the article via email, so I'll take your word that it is an "extremist" site.

The reason I posted it was mainly to two reasons:
1) Will the "surge" be enough to change anything or is it too little and/or too late.
If the surge consisted of nothing more than increasing the number of bodies in Iraq, it would fail.

But since this surge corresponds with a strategic change and a change in the way the U.S. will be engaging the enemy, it certainly has a strong chance of success.

2) The point-the-finger-blame-game that often goes on in politics.
That tendency is getting very poisonous. Unfortunately, the DNC decided it was in their political interest to exploit the public and campaign against the war. I've give them the benefit of the doubt and just say that they aren't aware at how seriously that undermines the security of the nation and the safety of the troops.


Thanks for your insights though.
Welcome. I've mentioned commondreams before, in case you missed it, they're the organization that endorses Chavez in Venezuela.
 
Calabrio said:
Welcome. I've mentioned commondreams before, in case you missed it, they're the organization that endorses Chavez in Venezuela.

Hey Deville, did you get that email from Phil or Johnny?
 
Calabrio said:
Let's first establish that it was not Nixon who got the U.S. involved in Vietnam, it was an issue he inherited from the Johnson adminstration.



...

Are you forgetting about the advisors that Ike and JFK sent to Viet Nam? Dont blame Johnson. Everyone blames Johnson. He wanted to build American society, the Great Society. It's not his fault that the leaders that preceded him, Truman, Eisenhower, and Kennedy, all followed the idea of the domino effect and how America couldn't let one country fall to communism for fear others would.
 
daves2000ls said:
Are you forgetting about the advisors that Ike and JFK sent to Viet Nam? Dont blame Johnson. Everyone blames Johnson.
I'm aware of the history of Vietnam, but I didn't feel like writing an essay on the history of Indo-China starting with the French colonies and the cold war. Johnson preceded Nixon. But Johnson certainly did intensify and critically mismanage the war.

He wanted to build American society, the Great Society. It's not his fault that the leaders that preceded him, Truman, Eisenhower, and Kennedy, all followed the idea of the domino effect and how America couldn't let one country fall to communism for fear others would.
why focus on his failures in Vietnam when we should focus on his even greater failures regarding American social policy.
 
at least he had the right idea. fix america before fixing the world.
 
daves2000ls said:
at least he had the right idea. fix america before fixing the world.

Ruin the America budget and subjugate an entire class of people to generations of poverty and government dependence? To create huge federal entitlement programs that after nearly a half century have failed to accomplish their intended goals and are going to bankrupt the country?

Further, "fixing the world" has never been the goal of any administration. However, making the world more safe for AMERICANs has.
 
daves2000ls said:
at least he had the right idea. fix america before fixing the world.

Except for the pesky fact that his 'great society' failed, bringing about the largest entitlement class in the history of this country. It took the Congress in 1995 to fix THAT failure, and we are STILL facing the imminent disaster that is the failure of the ponzi scheme known as social security. Education in this country is horrible, and the war on poverty has failed. Throwing billions upon billions of dollars at them did absolutely zip. Medicare got too expensive and BUSH had to fix that. PBS is a lefty channel and a boring failure, and the environmental acts Johnson put in place have done more harm than good.
 

Members online

No members online now.
Back
Top