How'd your guy do tonight?

[Kbob]

I don't start many threads, but I wanted to post my review of tonights presidential debate before I listened to all the spin. I also look forward to reading others' input.

This one was almost a tie to me, but I'm calling this one for Bush 51 to 49 (biased? perhaps, but I honestly tried not to be). Kerry was basically the exact same as the other night. Basically very good. He had a grasp of the issues and spoke very well. Posture good, same little half smile/smirk and raised eyebrow. He seemed passionate and was good at attacking the President.

Bush, in contrast to the other night, was basically his equal. Bush had an equal grasp of the issues and details. His demeanor was much better than the other night and his posture was good. I didn't like where he brushed off Charlie Gibson at one point to reply to one of Kerry's statements. But his humor more than made up for that gruff reaction.

I thought Charlie Gibson was the fairest moderator of the 3 so far. But I did have a problem with the last 2 questions that Gibson chose. The 2nd to the last question was about abortion, which I believe most people in the U.S. are pro-choice by a slim majority (correct me if I'm wrong) so that question seemed to favor Kerry. Then the last question was for Bush to name 3 of his mistakes. What's up with that being the last question? Bush nailed it right away when he stated that that question was really whether or not he believed he was wrong about Iraq. Right or wrong, everyone should give him credit for acknowledging that and not skirting that issue. This of course set Kerry up to give his "colossal failure" speach. That was just wrong to be the last question IMO since it was obviously favored for Kerry.

As far as substance, I'm giving the nod for Bush again, since his plans and programs are there for all to see. Kerry on the other hand seemed to be making an excessive amount of promises. Kerry just went overboard, but again this is just an opinion.

I admit I was a little nervous at first because the camera shot of Bush right before the questioning showed him to look nervous, and breathing so fast I thought he may have a heart attack. But that didn't prove to be the case, and I was quite relieved.

In summary: good job Kerry, and a slightly better job Bush.

 

[pepperman]

I thought that the President did alot better in this debate than the first one and i believe that he had Kerry on the defensive most of the time.

 

[MonsterMark]

I can't comment, at least not yet, because I am busy trying to count the number of times Kerry said - "I have a plan".

 

[Joeychgo]

not as much as Bush said he's "working hard"


Not bad for a president who has spent more time out of the white house then any other president.



And I think Bush did alot better this time - but still lost. And according to MSNBC's poll - 68% think Kerry won too

 

[MonsterMark]

And according to MSNBC's poll - 68% think Kerry won too

You quote an online internet poll as some kind of basis in fact. Sorry man, you've plain lost it. I've given up on you. I'll show you a bunch of polls tomorrow that show Kerry winning the debate by 90%-10%. I'll quit while I am ahead.

 

[Katshot]

I think Kerry was consistent and Bush was significantly better than last time. Who won? I'd have to call it a sqeaker with the nod going to Kerry for his consistency if for no other reason.
As for him always saying "I have a plan" and Bush's policies "being there for all to see", isn't that normal considering that Bush is in office and Kerry is not? What can Kerry do beyond outline a plan. If Bush has a better plan, why's he waiting to impliment one? Face it, we can all see where GW's policies/plans have gotten us.

 

[MonsterMark]

I'm still counting. 52 and rising.


Show me one of sKerry's infamous plans.

I remember when he said he couldn't reveal his Iraq plan because the Republicans might steal his idea.

Talk about bribed and coerced. That is exactly what Kerry will do. He will hand out money to French, German and Rissian companies to 'outsource' the work in Iraq without any military help.

Haven't you ever heard the phrase: 'To The Victor Go The Spoils' ?

 

[barry2952]

I believe Bush did better than the first debate but fell short of convincing me that four more wars is the way to go.

My original question still is unanswered. If Bush has all these great plans, what has he done about them in the last 4 years?

 

[97silverlsc]

You quote an online internet poll as some kind of basis in fact. Sorry man, you've plain lost it. I've given up on you. I'll show you a bunch of polls tomorrow that show Kerry winning the debate by 90%-10%. I'll quit while I am ahead.

Don't have to wait till tomorrow--
Hit the Post Debate Polls (With Results)
By Tom Ball
10/09/04

ONLINE POLLS

Kerry wins! (See analyses below), Bush did better than his pitiful performance in the first debate. Hardly a challenge.

ALERT: These polls are ongoing -- VOTE NOW!!!

NOTE: These polls can remain open for as long as TWO DAYS, so please keep at it.

During the VP Debate, we hit the polls with 17,000 voters and once again, we are rocking the online polls. Spread the word and GOTV!

* MSNBC
Ongoing Poll Results
Kerry: 66%
Bush: 34%

* CNN (Scroll Down to 'Quick Vote')
Ongoing Poll Results
Kerry: 76%
Bush: 22%

* CNN America Votes (This is different from the on above. Vote in both!)
Ongoing Poll Results
Kerry: 86%
Bush: 13%

* CBS News
Ongoing Poll Results
Kerry: 88%
Bush: 12%

* Fox News (Scroll Down)
Ongoing Poll Results
Kerry: 53%
Bush: 46%

* Boston Globe
Ongoing Poll Results
Kerry: 84%
Bush: 12%

* AOL
Ongoing Poll Results
Kerry: 51%
Bush: 49%

* Yahoo News
Ongoing Poll Results
Kerry: 64%
Bush: 33%

* Campaigns and Elections
Ongoing Poll Results
Kerry: 49%
Bush: 50%

* MS. Magazine
Ongoing Poll Results
Kerry: 65%
Bush: 35%


Online Polls in Swing States (Hit em Hard!)

* Tampa Bay Online
Ongoing Poll Results
Kerry: 87%
Bush: 12%

* Rocky Mountain News
Ongoing Poll Results
Kerry: 92%
Bush: 8%

* KOLO TV Reno, NV (Scroll Down)
Ongoing Poll Results
Kerry: 92%
Bush: 8%

* Asheville Citizen-Times, NC (Scroll Down - This link has been fixed)
Ongoing Poll Results
Kerry: 88%
Bush: 12%

* Denver Channel, CO (This is actually a national NBC affiliate poll that is placed on local stations' websites in many swing states...among others. Interestingly, if you go to each of the local websites, Iowa, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Birmingham, Cincinnati, Dallas-Fort Worth, New Orleans, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Orlando, Harrisburg, Dayton, Charlotte and Wheeling, you could probably vote in each one. But, of course I don't recommend such action because that would be playing on the same field as the Republicans.)
Ongoing Poll Results
Kerry: 76%
Bush: 23%


Touchy-Feely Online Polls

* CNN Pundit Scorecard

* PBS

* Newsday (Look for "e-Poll: Rate the candidates")

* BBC


Non-interactive poll results:

ABC News Debate Poll
(Debate reaction poll - not an online poll)

Who won the debate?
Kerry: 44%
Bush: 41%

CNN/USA TODAY/Gallup debate reaction poll (not an online poll)

Who won the debate?
Kerry: 47%
Bush: 45%

How many people perceive the following candidate more favorably as a result of the debate?
Kerry: 38%
Bush: 31%

 

[MonsterMark]

I know that at least 1/2 the people for Bush are doing one of two things with these online polls.

1) Not voting at all, just ignoring them.
2) Voting for Kerry to make the polls look even more pathetic and less believable.

The word is getting around the net quickly to counter the Democrats tactic of using internet bots to deluge these online polls with computer generated votes.

By the 3rd debate, ALL the polls will be meaningless. I mean, look at half the poll results you posted. Laughable.

Even that little worm Ronny Reagan said that Bush won the debate. And so did Chris Mouththews.

Most people that are supporting Bush don't need no stinkin poll to help them decide for themselves which is the better candidate.

Whereas, it is pretty obvious that the people on the left are not capable of thinking for themselves, and therefore need a poll to tell them which way to vote. It is a pretty sad state of affairs we have in this country with all the people that need to be led around by their privates so they 'know' what to do.

The only poll that counts is November 2nd. I won't waste my time on these stupid and completely meaningless online polls or polls from ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN ,MSNBC, and USA Today/Gallop.

Here, if you like polls so much...MSNBC poll

Live Vote

If the presidential election were held this week, who would you vote for?
* 475038 responses

George W. Bush 59%

John Kerry 41%

Ralph Nader 1%

Not a scientifically valid survey.
Click to learn more.

 

[Kbob]

You guys and your stupid polls. Sheesh, can't you have an original thought about the debate without going to those obviously biased polls? I remember Bush saying something about "hard work" in one of his answers and I remember thinking "NO! Not again!" But that was the only answer I recall that being mentioned, so there was no repetitiveness on Bush's part by and large.

The commentators I watched afterward on CNN, MSNBC, and Fox also stated that Kerry's magical plans would be so expensive that in order to get them he would have to raise taxes on everyone. They likened it to the George Sr. comment "read my lips".

Debate score:

Republican Democrat
Prez 1 1
VP 1 0

 

[barry2952]

Hey Ken,

Just so you can't say that they are "stupid" polls, do your own. Gather 10 undecided voters and ask wheter Kerry or Bush won the debates. I personally think you and MonsterMark have buried your heads in the sand.

Actually, I think your denial is so bad that you won't do the poll.

I only agree with about half of Kerry's policies. I agree with a lot of Bush's policies but I don't trust him. If reelected, he will change the Supreme Court. That scares me.

How can a rational man be afraid of using embrionic stem cells from frozen embrios that are destined to be destroyed anyway? The slippery slope argument doesn't work here.

Ask anyone who has a family member that may benefit from stem cell research if they have a problem with it. I doubt that you'll ask that question either.

 

[Kbob]

Hey Ken,

Just so you can't say that they are "stupid" polls, do your own. Gather 10 undecided voters and ask wheter Kerry or Bush won the debates. I personally think you and MonsterMark have buried your heads in the sand.

My definition of a "stupid" poll is one that is not scientifically valid. Those polled weren't "gathered". Are you going to defend those polls, Barry, and use them as fact? If you are, then that's proof positive whose head is where, straight up Kerry's arse. I called it like I saw it, like it or not, with no leaning towards any candidates position on an issue. Read my review of the other 2 debates if you doubt me. My opinion of those internet polls hasn't changed for the last several months, either, as some have posted the results of similar polls trying to show that Bush was losing 65 to 35%, when true polls were calling it even. I spoke up then, too. And I'm not backing down now either. argue2

Believe me, I don't have any problem asking someone who they thought won the debate, undecided or not, as I do it all the time. If you think otherwise, you just don't know me. :bash:

Also, if, I repeat IF Bush were to appoint anyone to the Supreme Court, it would not change the conservative/liberal balance of the Court as it is now because those appointees would be replacing retiring conservative justices, not liberal. In other words, the candidate that has a better chance of changing the balance of the court is Kerry. I'll forgive your ignorance on this issue. *owned*

And for the record, I have never stated that I was against embryonic stem cell research. I'm not sure of all the facts because I haven't studied it. It is not that important to me (no offense to anyone). So in the words of Zell Miller, "get out of my face!"

 

[MonsterMark]

Hey Ken,

Just so you can't say that they are "stupid" polls, do your own. Gather 10 undecided voters and ask wheter Kerry or Bush won the debates. I personally think you and MonsterMark have buried your heads in the sand.

Actually, I think your denial is so bad that you won't do the poll.

I only agree with about half of Kerry's policies. I agree with a lot of Bush's policies but I don't trust him. If reelected, he will change the Supreme Court. That scares me.

How can a rational man be afraid of using embrionic stem cells from frozen embrios that are destined to be destroyed anyway? The slippery slope argument doesn't work here.

Ask anyone who has a family member that may benefit from stem cell research if they have a problem with it. I doubt that you'll ask that question either.

Man, you are soooo confused.
If you don't think that the undecideds will be breaking for Bush (60-40) on election day, you are wrong. That is why they are undecided in the first place. With the war on terror being the biggest election issue, these people will pick the candidate that they know over the unknown. They won't want to roll the dice. And that is what Kerry is...a roll of the dice. Can you say snake eyes?

I WANT Bush to change the Supreme Court so us conservatives can effect the future for our children and protect the values of this country that have slowly been eroding over the last several decades. The slippery slope you speak of. It looks like Republicans will have to hold office for another 12 years until all the liberal judges kick off. (Wishful thinking on my part.)

Bush was the first President to provide government funding for embryonic stem cell research. He has simply said, let's work with the ones we have before we open up another can of worms. Like my wife said last night- What does Kerry want, women getting pregnant so they can sell their embryos? Silly me, of course he does, that is why Mrs. Kerry (Ta-RAZ-Sah) refers to her miscarriages as "my little piggies".

And I hope you will educate yourself on the difference between adult stem cell and embryonic stem cell research. There is a quantum moral difference.

 

[MonsterMark]

FBI Uncovers Possible Cache of Unlabeled Kerry Plans

(2004-10-09) -- The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) said today it has found what may be a cache of plans by John Forbes Kerry to address the crises in health care, the economy, Iraq and a host of other national traumas.

"We were called in on the case after the plans had gone missing through two presidential debates," said an FBI spokesman. "I have to caution you, however, that it may take several months or more to translate these documents and discover whether they are, in fact, plans. It's still up in the air because the file folders in which we found them had no labels. Apparently, Mr. Kerry doesn't like to label anything."

A spokesman for the Kerry-Edwards campaign refused to comment directly on the FBI discovery.

"Sen. Kerry has said 'I have a plan' and we will leave it at that," said the unnamed source. "The FBI, at the direction of John Ashcroft, is on a fishing expedition to embarrass John Kerry just before the election."

The source noted that "when Martin Luther King Jr. said 'I have a dream' no one demanded that he prove it. Why should Sen. Kerry be held to higher standard?"

by Scott Ott