How's that Egyptian "Democracy" movement working out?

shagdrum

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Islamist Group Is Rising Force in a New Egypt
By MICHAEL SLACKMAN

CAIRO — In post-revolutionary Egypt, where hope and confusion collide in the daily struggle to build a new nation, religion has emerged as a powerful political force, following an uprising that was based on secular ideals. The Muslim Brotherhood, an Islamist group once banned by the state, is at the forefront, transformed into a tacit partner with the military government that many fear will thwart fundamental changes.

It is also clear that the young, educated secular activists who initially propelled the nonideological revolution are no longer the driving political force — at least not at the moment.

As the best organized and most extensive opposition movement in Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood was expected to have an edge in the contest for influence. But what surprises many is its link to a military that vilified it.

There is evidence the Brotherhood struck some kind of a deal with the military early on,” said Elijah Zarwan, a senior analyst with the International Crisis Group. “It makes sense if you are the military — you want stability and people off the street. The Brotherhood is one address where you can go to get 100,000 people off the street.”

There is a battle consuming Egypt about the direction of its revolution, and the military council that is now running the country is sending contradictory signals. On Wednesday, the council endorsed a plan to outlaw demonstrations and sit-ins. Then, a few hours later, the public prosecutor announced that the former interior minister and other security officials would be charged in the killings of hundreds during the protests.

Egyptians are searching for signs of clarity in such declarations, hoping to discern the direction of a state led by a secretive military council brought to power by a revolution based on demands for democracy, rule of law and an end to corruption.

“We are all worried,” said Amr Koura, 55, a television producer, reflecting the opinions of the secular minority. “The young people have no control of the revolution anymore. It was evident in the last few weeks when you saw a lot of bearded people taking charge. The youth are gone.”

The Muslim Brotherhood is also regarded warily by some religious Egyptians, who see it as an elitist, secret society. These suspicions have created potential opportunities for other parties.

About six groups from the ultraconservative Salafist school of Islam have also emerged in the era after President Hosni Mubarak’s removal, as well as a party called Al Wassat, intended as a more liberal alternative to the Brotherhood.

In the early stages of the revolution, the Brotherhood was reluctant to join the call for demonstrations. It jumped in only after it was clear that the protest movement had gained traction. Throughout, the Brotherhood kept a low profile, part of a survival instinct honed during decades of repression by the state.

The question at the time was whether the Brotherhood would move to take charge with its superior organizational structure. It now appears that it has.

“The Brotherhood didn’t want this revolution; it has never been a revolutionary movement,” said Mr. Zarwan of the International Crisis Group. “Now it has happened; they participated cautiously, and they realize they can set their sights higher.”

But in these early stages, there is growing evidence of the Brotherhood’s rise and the overpowering force of Islam.

When the new prime minister, Essam Sharaf, addressed the crowd in Tahrir Square this month, Mohamed el-Beltagi, a prominent Brotherhood member, stood by his side. A Brotherhood member was also appointed to the committee that drafted amendments to the Constitution.

But the most obvious and consequential example was the recent referendum on the amendments, in the nation’s first post-Mubarak balloting. The amendments essentially call for speeding up the election process so that parliamentary contests can be held before September, followed soon after by a presidential race. That expedited calendar is seen as giving an advantage to the Brotherhood and to the remnants of Mr. Mubarak’s National Democratic Party, which have established national networks. The next Parliament will oversee drafting a new constitution.

Before the vote, Essam el-Erian, a Brotherhood leader and spokesman, appeared on a popular television show, “The Reality,” arguing for the government’s position in favor of the proposal. With a record turnout, the vote was hailed as a success. But the “yes” campaign was based largely on a religious appeal: voters were warned that if they did not approve the amendments, Egypt would become a secular state.

“The problem is that our country will be without a religion,” read a flier distributed in Cairo by a group calling itself the Egyptian Revolution Society. “This means that the call to the prayer will not be heard anymore like in the case of Switzerland, women will be banned from wearing the hijab like in the case of France,” it said, referring to the Muslim head scarf. “And there will be laws that allow men to get married to men and women to get married to women like in the case of America.”

A banner hung by the Muslim Brotherhood in a square in Alexandria instructed voters that it was their “religious duty” to vote “yes” on the amendments.

In the end, 77.2 percent of those who voted said yes.

This is not to say that the Brotherhood is intent on establishing an Islamic state. From the first days of the protests, Brotherhood leaders proclaimed their dedication to religious tolerance and a democratic and pluralist form of government. They said they would not offer a candidate for president, that they would contest only a bit more than a third of the total seats in Parliament, and that Coptic Christians and women would be welcomed into the political party affiliated with the movement.

None of that has changed, Mr. Erian, the spokesman, said in an interview. “We are keen to spread our ideas and our values,” he said. “We are not keen for power.”

He would not comment on whether the Brotherhood had an arrangement with the military, but he said the will of the people to shift toward Islam spoke for itself and was a sign of Egypt’s emerging democratic values. “Don’t trust the intellectuals, liberals and secularists,” Mr. Erian said. “They are a minor group crying all the time. If they don’t work hard, they have no future.”

But the more secular forces say that what they need is time.

“I worry about going too fast towards elections, that the parties are still weak,” said Nabil Ahmed Helmy, former dean of the Zagazig law school and a member of the National Council for Human Rights. “The only thing left right now is the Muslim Brotherhood. I do think that people are trying to take over the revolution.”

Egypt is still a work in progress. Ola Shahba, 32, a member of a group in the youth coalition behind the protests, said, “After the results of the referendum, we need to be humble.”

The coalition and others have said they see the overwhelming approval of the amendments and the rise of the Brotherhood as worrisome, and as evidence that more liberal forces need to organize in a more effective outreach campaign, and fast.

“Freedom is nice; so is democracy,” said Rifaat Abdul Massih, 39, a construction worker. “But I’m a Christian, and we are a bit worried about the future. I voted ‘no’ to give more time to the secular parties. I don’t want to have the Muslim Brotherhood here right away.”
 
Egyptian women protesters forced to take 'virginity tests'

Cairo: Women arrested by Egyptian military personnel during protests at Cairo's Tahrir Square were subjected to "virginity tests" and other forms of humiliation, claims an Amnesty International report.

Eighteen demonstrators were detained by army officers on March 9 at the end of weeks of protest.

The Amnesty report revealed that the women protesters were beaten, given electric shocks, subjected to strip searches and photographed by male soldiers.

Women were then given 'virginity checks' and threatened with prostitution charges if the medics ruled they had had sex, said the report.

Amnesty has called on the Egyptian authorities to investigate this alleged abuse, which it described as 'utterly unacceptable.'

'The purpose is to degrade women because they are women", "All women of the medical profession must refuse to take part in such so-called 'tests'," The Daily Mail quoted an Amnesty spokesman, as saying.

The spokesman said one woman who had told the military she was a virgin and then failed the 'test' was beaten and given electric shocks.

'Women and girls must be able to express their views on the future of Egypt and protest against the government without being detained, tortured, or subjected to profoundly degrading and discriminatory treatment,' he added.

He further said that women participated to bring change in the country and should not be punished for their activism. The Egyptian authorities must halt the shocking and degrading treatment of women protesters.

He said that military officials responsible for such inhuman act must be brought to justice and the courageous women who denounced such abuses should be protected from reprisals.
 
Muslims have "cultural" differences regarding women that some men secretly find appealing.


We're not that far behind really as this amusing memorable quote from friday's Bill Maher:

Maher: Palin And Bachmann Are "Two Bimbos" Who Belong On Gilligan's Island
Following his obscene reference to Sarah Palin last week, HBO's Bill Maher attacks the former Governor again as well as Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn). Both are women and both are considered 2012 presidential candidates.

Maher says Bachmann is for "those who find Sarah Palin too intellectual."

"If Palin and Bachmann get in, that's two bimbos and there is Mitt Romney, a millionaire, and Newt Gingrich, a professor. We just need a skipper and a buddy and we've got Gilligan's Island," Maher said.
_________________________________________________________________

I guess Bush could have been a Gilligan and Cheney was the Skipper LOL!
 
Bill Maher is representative of American culture?! And his jackassery is compatible to "virginity tests"?

Also, any thoughts on the first article?
 
Moral religious conservatives believe women belong in their place.
Islam just takes it further.
Some social conservatives have teens promise purity and hold chaste women in great esteem(at least in thought)
Muslims go further and have the blessing of their states to enforce their religious moral opinions like Sharia Law.

Religion is a mature thing of over 1000 years in a world where half the people are under 30 so it's not that surprising that religion in this case Islam would be a unifying force of some kind.

There is no great secular force in the middle east that is capable of offering the unity that religion offers.
As the most stable thing in Egypt it's not surprising people would look to the Brotherhood for stability.
 
Bill Maher is representative of American culture?! And his jackassery is compatible to "virginity tests"?

Also, any thoughts on the first article?

Bill Maher likes to poke the bear....

Hot Air took outraged umbrage at Maher calling Palin and Bachman bimbos who belong on Gilligans Island but quickly (a few hours) took it down from their headlines and decided on second thought not to publicize the humourous witticism for hitting IMO a little too close to the truth.:p
 
Do you have more then false equivalences and other excuses to dismiss the articles and the broader points raised? Can you confront the points raised in the first article? Do you realize their significance?
 
Both feet in the mouth---right up to the knees

'04, you know that I often appreciate your witticisms. But there are other occasions when you come across as a major a sshole!

KS
 
Do you have more then false equivalences and other excuses to dismiss the articles and the broader points raised? Can you confront the points raised in the first article? Do you realize their significance?

You are surprised by the obvious.
Instead of talking about thinking you should do some of your own.
There is nothing shocking about the Brotherhood taking over the protests and working a deal with the military.Both are bedfellows strong authoritarian forces of stability but not freedom.

I only wish you would be as appalled and concerned about religious zealots taking over the Republican party here.
Your contradictions are showing.
 
'04, you know that I often appreciate your witticisms. But there are other occasions when you come across as a major a sshole!

KS
Touchy Touchy on Palin KS.:p
Or is it Bachman.
We all have an @sshole but I'm a complex person with my own human contradictions.:D
It hasn't been as much fun here since foss left.
He had a certain something and was more creative and spirited when poked.;)
He would have had a better retort than just calling me a crude vulgarity(which you find satisfying) or at least would have said I was the one on Gilligan's Island.
Remember the one who resorts to calling the other names ad hominem is in the weaker position.
I was only repeating Maher's witticism that I found creative and amusing.
I'm curious if people will start heckling Palin and Bachman to go back to Gilligan's Island.
Palin was an empty bubblehead pardoning the turkey:eek: in 2008 and hiring a staff to write her talking points and coach herself on fox hasn't filled her head much or improved her as a serious candidate.
Ann Coulter said she's better as a mascot for Republicans LOL!
And we don't need to mention what Tracy Morgan said on TNT when asked about Tina Fey or Sarah Palin?:p
I don't want to listen to what Palin's writers have come up with.
She is what she is and has a fabulous larger than life life and is fair game for any comedian.
 
Characterizations

You'll notice that I didn't say 'you ARE an a sshole' but that you, on occasion 'come across as an a sshole'. I've not characterized YOU, but your actions. Simple personal attacks are ALMOST always improper. On the other hand, sometimes you're simply talking to a horse's patoot!;)

(FWIW, I, too, think we are lesser for the absence of Foss.)

KS
 
You'll notice that I didn't say 'you ARE an a sshole' but that you, on occasion 'come across as an a sshole'. I've not characterized YOU, but your actions. Simple personal attacks are ALMOST always improper. On the other hand, sometimes you're simply talking to a horse's patoot!;)

(FWIW, I, too, think we are lesser for the absence of Foss.)

KS
Well I'm glad you cleared that up KS.
You are attacking the message instead of the messenger.:rolleyes:
We all have our @ssholinesses:p
I'm here to stir things up with my contentious opinions even resorting to talking out of both sides of my mouth :D

I just thought that characterizing Palin and Bachman as bimbos who belong on Gilligans Island was a creative amusing witticism that to me described them perfectly and part of how they should be attacked.
Remember about the potency of ridicule and how it is hard to fight against.
These 2 Republican female candidates as Bimbos on Gilligans Island?
What a marvelous short sweet sums it up sound bite ;)
 
Kirsten Powers Takes On Bill Maher: His Comments On Bachmann, Palin Are Degrading To ‘All Women’

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/kirsten-...on-bachmann-palin-are-degrading-to-all-women/

Fox News political analyst Kirsten Powers told Fox’s Greta Van Susteren comic Bill Maher’s jokes about Michele Bachmann and Sarah Palin represent an attack on “all women.” Maher, who has made no bones about his comedic high hopes for a Bachmann presidential campaign. On his HBO show Friday, Maher described the GOP field of potential presidential candidates as a Gilligan’s Island in the making, with Palin and Bachmann as “two bimbos,” Mitt Romney as “the millionaire” and Newt Gingrich as “the professor.”

“It degrades all women,” said Powers. “When you do this, you can choose these two women, but it degrades all women…if they’re not being called bimbos, they’re being called these scheming climbers…it’s not a minor thing.”

_______________________________________________________________

This is not an attack on all women just the charismatic empty headed attractive looking ones that enthrawl the Republican Party.
Politics is blood sport and feeding your opponents to the lions is great spectacle.
Kirsten Powers doesn't even try to defend Palin and Bachman against the Bimbo charges.
Bimbos are a real thing.
Ask Hugh Heffner LOL!
It’s funny how we men never claimed calling George Bush a moron degrades all men.
We just rightly took it for granted that it was only he who was being refered to.
Dim Sport Jocks would be a male equivalent to the female Bimbo.
Scheming climbers is an attack on all women?
Looks like we have another Bimbo's take here on Bimbos LOL!
 
Snarky

Well I'm glad you cleared that up KS.
You are attacking the message instead of the messenger.:rolleyes:
We all have our @ssholinesses:p
I'm here to stir things up with my contentious opinions even resorting to talking out of both sides of my mouth :D

I just thought that characterizing Palin and Bachman as bimbos who belong on Gilligans Island was a creative amusing witticism that to me described them perfectly.
Remember about the potency of ridicule and how it is hard to fight against.
These 2 Republican female candidates as Bimbos on Gilligans Island?
What a marvelous short sweet sums it up sound bite ;)

One of the reasons Jay Leno is first in his time slot and the letter guy is no-where is the regular snarky meanness that letterman uses as an excuse for humour.

maher reminds me of a third-grader who has discovered that scatological comments result in horror from his 22-year-old female teacher. He's so needy for attention that he'll say ANYTHING to get it. Consider the source! I predict that some day soon, he'll run his mouth under such circumstances that he'll be badly hurt.

KS
 
One of the reasons Jay Leno is first in his time slot and the letter guy is no-where is the regular snarky meanness that letterman uses as an excuse for humour.

maher reminds me of a third-grader who has discovered that scatological comments result in horror from his 22-year-old female teacher. He's so needy for attention that he'll say ANYTHING to get it. Consider the source! I predict that some day soon, he'll run his mouth under such circumstances that he'll be badly hurt.

KS

So you think he's like Ford Fairlaine? :cool:
(I got my tongue up this chicks....@ss)
I don't know if you noticed but Jay relentlessly makes Palin is Dumb jokes(his opinion?) but doesn't go as far as calling her a Bimbo.(yet)
Maher's show is on HBO which you have to subscribe to so he can be a little more aggressive.
I don't agree with Maher on things like more taxes:p for high income earners(surprise!) the environment and Global Warming as the apocalypse, or muscle cars but he has good guests and a lively witty intelligent political humour show and his views on religion are close to mine.
I also like New Rules.
I liked Politically Incorrect when it was on but then it got cancelled because some people were offended when he said it took courage to fly those planes into the WTC and die for your cause as opposed to safely firing unmanned missiles from warships hundreds of miles away.

he'll be badly hurt.
I thought it was Democrats who fall back on the Goon Squad and thuggerly when arguing fails but your sentiments make it seem like conservatives want to get in on that thug action too.

Nobody calls smart women Like Margret Thatcher, Hillary Clinton, Libby Dole, Elizabeth Warren,Michelle Obama or the late Ann Richards Bimbo's but in the case of Palin and Bachman they are Bimboesque and the term fits.
 
The Term Doesn't Fit

...and his views on religion are close to mine.

God loves you anyway!


Nobody calls smart women Like Margret Thatcher, Hillary Clinton, Libby Dole, Elizabeth Warren,Michelle Obama or the late Ann Richards Bimbo's but in the case of Palin and Bachman they are Bimboesque and the term fits.


A mud fence is unlikely, on the face of it, to be called a bimbo.

KS
 
There is nothing shocking about the Brotherhood taking over the protests and working a deal with the military.Both are bedfellows strong authoritarian forces of stability but not freedom.

So, are you unwilling to confront the fact that this under cuts your arrogant claims in this thread and your bragging in this post? Or are you simply too short sighted to see how it undercuts those claims?

I only wish you would be as appalled and concerned about religious zealots taking over the Republican party here.

Yet you cannot provide any empirical proof of this claim (if anything, the "religious rights" is receding in influence in the GOP with the rise of the tea party). However, it is an effective way of distracting from the points raised in the article and avoiding that humble pie...
 
I just thought that characterizing Palin and Bachman as bimbos who belong on Gilligans Island was a creative amusing witticism that to me described them perfectly and part of how they should be attacked.

So, when it confirms your preconceived notions, it is "creative" and "witty", got it. :rolleyes:
 
...he has good guests and a lively witty intelligent political humour show and his views on religion are close to mine.

There is nothing "intelligent" about Maher. He is simply a narcisistic, short sighted buffoon who appeals to similarly minded individuals.

True principles are a foreign concept to people like him. The only "principle" is self-aggrandizement. That includes buying into rhetoric that tends to stroke the ego of those who buy into it, becoming a useful idiot in the process.

Maher is a bottom feeder and only serves to disrupt productive discourse.
 
So, are you unwilling to confront the fact that this under cuts your arrogant claims in this thread and your bragging in this post? Or are you simply too short sighted to see how it undercuts those claims?



Yet you cannot provide any empirical proof of this claim (if anything, the "religious rights" is receding in influence in the GOP with the rise of the tea party). However, it is an effective way of distracting from the points raised in the article and avoiding that humble pie...

Effectiveness has it's virtues.;)
The first link was that was then at the beginning and things have evolved beyond Egypt and the second one alludes to a war that hasn't happened.
I was attacking your premise of a certain war that hasn't happened and the fact that this wasn't an Islamic inspired revolt.
Your conclusion may yet come to pass but there are many sects and tribes in all these countries who take turns being the ruling class and fight amongst themselves when they're not busy revolting against their governments.
A Muslim Empire would be hard to put together with these kind of internal relations.
 
So, when it confirms your preconceived notions, it is "creative" and "witty", got it. :rolleyes:

My notions are not preconceived
Palin painted herself with her own brush starting with the Katy Couric interview then called it gotcha journalism when she couldn't name one newspaper or any other source she used to inform herself about issues.
Then on her own wit she picks a turkey farm where turkeys are being killed before our eyes to pardon one.
I suppose since you know better these are not the telltale signs or at least the plausible signs of a bimbo.
 
There is nothing "intelligent" about Maher. He is simply a narcisistic, short sighted buffoon who appeals to similarly minded individuals.

True principles are a foreign concept to people like him. The only "principle" is self-aggrandizement. That includes buying into rhetoric that tends to stroke the ego of those who buy into it, becoming a useful idiot in the process.

Maher is a bottom feeder and only serves to disrupt productive discourse.

He's on once a week for an hour 8 months of the year vs the whole Fox News bottom feeding gang 24-7
His quips make it on both Hot Air and Huffington Post
 

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