If I like how a town car rides would I like other Panther chassis cars?

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babyhauler

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I used to have a 1988 Cartier Town Car that I bought for $1000 and drove for a year or two.

I bought it in pretty bad shape, but AFTER I put limo schocks all around and limo springs in back, and really nice tires the ride was amazing. The suspension compressor was also dead so I disconnected it and used my shop air compressor to adjus the ride. The can was so smooth and comfortable, I never should have gotten rid of it. The car has been gone for years but my family still talks about what a nice ride it was.

Here's my question, if my family liked the smooth town car ride that much and wanted a car that rode like that again, and I am willing to put in good shocks and sprigs, could a crown vic or a mercury Grand Prix provide the same ride?
 
The biggest part about ride like that is air. Air springs have a very unique way of isolating the car from the road vibration, noise, and other things that you may notice in a conventional coil suspension, hence why it provides the quality of ride that it does. Taking a different Lincoln for example, the Mark VIII is easily converted to coil suspension, but most with the coil swap will admit that the ride is not the same, and not nearly as "dynamic" as air offers. Add any kind of a drop, and the ride becomes downright bad. Of course, I'm sure most do this swap due to reliability concerns, and low maintenance. But in all honesty, if you're looking for a Town Car ride, but in a Panther platform, your easiest bet is to probably just find another Town Car. A Ford Crown or a Grand Marquis I'm sure can be converted to air easily enough, but is it worth it to you? I suppose I would weigh the cost of buying a Crown/Grand Marquis, and outfitting it with decent suspension components, versus the cost of buying a well maintained, factory Town Car.
 
Air!

Rushsampson said:
The biggest part about ride like that is air. . . .
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Rushsampson thanks for the tips. The town car I had didn't have air suspension. Just the heavy limo springs in the back and monroe limo shocks all around. The ride was incredible like that. Smoothest car I ever rode in.

But now it sounds like you are saying air suspension would be even better? If air suspension would be even better than what I had, I suppose I'll have to get air suspension in my next car.
 
The town car has a slightly longer wheelbase but they are the same car. You could theoretically put limo springs on a CV or GM. Don't the limo springs make it sit high like a truck though?
 
The limo springs didn't make my town car sit high. I still had to inflate the air helper springs or it would ride too low.

My old cartier didn't have full air suspension, it just had the load leveling air.

Yes it's true I could get a crown vic or mercury grand marquis and upgrade the suspension- but would my family be as happy with that as they would be with a town car?
 
Town Cars never had a "full" air suspension; it's always been load-leveling for the rear. This same suspension has been available on the Crown Vic and Grand Marquis since at least 1992. Just look for one with the Handling & Performance package (HPP).

The Town Car is longer than a CV/GM, and 99% of that length is put into the rear seat area. That gives passengers more room and a longer wheelbase rides smoother. I wouldn't be surprised to hear its shocks are tuned "softer" because that's what the car is built for.

There's not really a reason to turn one of the others into a Town Car. The TC changed very little from 2003+, so pick one in good condition and enjoy it!
 
To me,,,, you can't beat the ride of a full frame car. So much quieter than the unibodies as far as road noise. While some "full size" Lincolns did have full air suspension, (and were prone to expensive failure), not all did. IMO,,, you won't go wrong with a Grand Marquis or Crown Vic. The neat thing is that just prior to the Mercury Maurader,,, Ford was playing with the Panther body. The Grand Marquis LS, (and LSE)... and the Ford Crown Vic LX, (and LX Sport),,, have stiffer sway bars, wider rims and tires, and different gearing in the rear end... Plus the air ride in the rear, (which could be height adjusted by washers on the sensor), and dual crossover exhast for more horsepower.

These, (LSE/LX Sport), cars handled very well for their size, and would handle almost as well as the Police versions. On top of that,,, many of the Police upgrades could be put on these cars for minimal cost through a local parts store, boneyard, or dealer. Dual piston brake calipers. Stiffer front springs and Bilstein shocks for front and rear. Aluminum driveshaft, (with shorter Police tranny tailshaft), and Police cooling system upgrades, (including blue silcone hoses). I you want to go further,,, you could add the 24 pound fuel injectors and Police air intake for more horsepower. That's not all. A buddy of mine at the parts department of a local dealership told me that the only difference between a standard Panther body, (with afforementioned engine mods), and the police model... was a computer program!!! He told me that if I could get a VIN off a Police car,,, that my computer could be "flashed" to its specs for engine and transmission performance. That's the performance direction I was heading, (not literally), when the car in my "signature" met it's demise.

Aftermarket performance parts are slim for the Panther,,, but they are available. Had my car survived, my next step would have been this place: http://www.adtr.net/store/index.php?route=common/home . But now I drive a Lincoln LS, (thus the reason for belonging to this forum). The LS is a performance upgrade over the Panther I had,,, but is much more "quirky", (both drivetrain and suspension wise).

Recommendation::: If you do decide to get another Panther body,,, look for a clean low milage version of an 01-03 LS/LX version with air ride in the rear, and dual exhast... and check the diff tag for 3.55 gears. The GS and Ultimate versions don't handle for sh!t. I test drove an Ultimate through some curves near where I live and the backend slid out when the car in my sig, (when stock), would have driven right through them.

Just my 2c as a previous Panther owner.
 
There is a pretty big difference in the ride between 03 and newer and 02 and older chassis. The 02 and older has more of that big car ride. The 03 has better handling and more road feel. For the sake of conversation his 88 Town car had air shocks in the rear for load leveling not air springs. Plus I would say why not just stick with Town Cars if you like the ride. If you're shopping for older models there are deals to be had and the price between a CV and Town Car is negligible
 
The biggest changes between an '02 and '03 GM and CV, was rack and pinion steering,,, and a frame change. Other than that,,, there were other issues with newer models. At this point,,, IIRC... the town cars were the same exact car... with just a sheetmetal change. I would also tell the OP to beware of 2004 to 2007 models. If they used the same "multi-piece" spark plugs at the same year trucks,,, they were a headache... and were prone to the same expensive replacemet/repair problems.
 
Only P71's got 3.55s. Otherwise you get the 2.73 granny gears in the regular car or the 3.23's with the HPP or towing packages. "Ultimate" is a trim package that can be had with the performance package and it simply includes every possible option. My mother had an 01 Ultimate with the HPP at the same time I had my LSE.

The 03 frame changeover allowed the 4v engine to fit (for the Marauder) and it marks the switchover to FWD-like offsets for the wheels. It is said to handle much better but I've never owned one.

I would have gone Marauder this time, except the Continentals are practically given away and aren't beat on by the previous (old) owners. Except for launch, it lacks nothing in acceleration - the 3.56 axle is nice to have, and I can do all the mods the Marauder can do. Then when I feel like cruising I can set the suspension on "comfy" and ride in style. I also think the Conti's dash has weathered the years better than the all-horizontal Panther dash. The Conti's gauges are the best Ford ever made, although I do miss the P71 speedometer that I retfofitted into my LSE :D

My family drove Lincolns from the 70s through the early 2000s, with the last one being an 03 TC Cartier before making the switch to Lexus. If they made it during that time, I've ridden in it and/or driven it. No Town Car ever had front air suspension; only the Continental did for a few years and that ended in 1998. I wish it hadn't changed because I think it made a bigger difference in the suspension modes compared to rear leveling only.

Imagine a fresh TC with the new 5.0 and an 8spd automatic. Lincoln could still compete in the big car category. Right now if you want a 420 horsepower rwd v8 luxury sedan for under $100k you have to shop at the Hyundai dealership, and they've got 2 to choose from!
 
FWIW I have a 89 with rear air shocks and a 95 with rear air springs. IMO similar ride quality. Tires/inflation make a big difference too. Michys are great, but they don't make a 15" whitewall anymore. I have heard numerous times that the mid 90's TC's have a softer ride then the 2000's.
 
MooJohn said:
Only P71's got 3.55s. Otherwise you get the 2.73 granny gears in the regular car or the 3.23's with the HPP or towing packages. "Ultimate" is a trim package that can be had with the performance package and it simply includes every possible option. My mother had an 01 Ultimate with the HPP at the same time I had my LSE.
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Sorry MJ,,, I beg to differ. My 01 Grand Marquis had the Handling and Performance Package (HPP) with honeycomb style wheels, air ride suspension, dual exhaust, and 3.55 rear end gears... straight from the factory.
 
04_Sport_LS said:
The biggest changes between an '02 and '03 GM and CV, was rack and pinion steering,,, and a frame change. Other than that,,, there were other issues with newer models. At this point,,, IIRC... the town cars were the same exact car... with just a sheetmetal change. I would also tell the OP to beware of 2004 to 2007 models. If they used the same "multi-piece" spark plugs at the same year trucks,,, they were a headache... and were prone to the same expensive replacemet/repair problems.
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The 3 valves used these plugs, not the 2 Valves and all the Panthers are 2 Valves aside from the Marauder.
 
04_Sport_LS said:
Sorry MJ,,, I beg to differ. My 01 Grand Marquis had the Handling and Performance Package (HPP) with honeycomb style wheels, air ride suspension, dual exhaust, and 3.55 rear end gears... straight from the factory.
Click to expand...

I can't speak on '01 but I know for sure that the '00 civilian CV came with a 3.55 axle with the HPP package. I sold Ford's new then and it was right on the window sticker. I was hot to test drive it and remember that it moved out
 
if you get a Crown Vic,, or a Mercury Grand Marq,,, you will get a 2:73 rear gear ratio,,, the only way you will get a better gear ratio is to get a police model CV,,, or a Town Car and they come with a 3:27 rear gear,,, But the 1999 P71 model of the Crown vic left the factory with the 3:55 rear gears !! I have been driving the police models of the Crown Vic for the past 18 years ! My first was a 1987 CV police model, and that had 3:08 rear gears that were **** ! Now I have a 1997 CV , and that has 3:27 rears,,, My next car will be a 2007 to 2010 Town Car ! But it will have mods done to it,, !! The 97 Crown Vic P71 I drive now,, I have put air shocks on for when I tow a trailer, or have a load in the rear of my car !! If you do go with a Crown Vic, or Mercury Marq,,, you can get the same year computer for a police car,, and just plug into your Civilian Crown Vic or Mercury Marq to get the tune of the police model ! But use the same year car when doing this ! So of you have a 2003 Crown Vic, or Grand Marq,,,, use the computer from a 2003 Crown Vic police car !! And all police cars will have P71 in their Serial number on the dash !!
 
Dondo5853 said:
if you get a Crown Vic,, or a Mercury Grand Marq,,, you will get a 2:73 rear gear ratio,,, the only way you will get a better gear ratio is to get a police model CV,,, or a Town Car and they come with a 3:27 rear gear,,, But the 1999 P71 model of the Crown vic left the factory with the 3:55 rear gears !! I have been driving the police models of the Crown Vic for the past 18 years ! My first was a 1987 CV police model, and that had 3:08 rear gears that were **** ! Now I have a 1997 CV , and that has 3:27 rears,,, My next car will be a 2007 to 2010 Town Car ! But it will have mods done to it,, !! The 97 Crown Vic P71 I drive now,, I have put air shocks on for when I tow a trailer, or have a load in the rear of my car !! If you do go with a Crown Vic, or Mercury Marq,,, you can get the same year computer for a police car,, and just plug into your Civilian Crown Vic or Mercury Marq to get the tune of the police model ! But use the same year car when doing this ! So of you have a 2003 Crown Vic, or Grand Marq,,,, use the computer from a 2003 Crown Vic police car !! And all police cars will have P71 in their Serial number on the dash !!
Click to expand...

You get either a 3.27 or 3.55 and dual exhaust, rear sway bar, cast aluminum wheels and rear air suspension with the 'performance and handling package on the non police models. The same gear ratio the police models got. They never made a police Town Car.

The difference in the police package are the higher rate springs, shocks, bigger sway bars, reinforced frame, more ground clearance, better cooling and charging systems, aluminum or metal matrix driveshaft with longer transmission tail shaft and certified calibration 140 speedometer etc. I believe the p71 got a different torque converter but not sure on that

You couldn't buy a P71 new unless you law enforcement or found a fleet service that would sell you one, knew someone at Ford etc

It's not a good idea to go faster then the top speed limiter(112mph?) in a civilian CV without the longer police tail shaft and shorter high speed aluminum driveshaft if you were to switch computers
 
OK I read every word you ladies and gentlemen wrote.

I'm just going to stick with town car. One of the deciding factors is that the extra length goes into the rear seat area.

Another deciding factor is that I'm not going to do the police upgrades.

Later on I'll narrow it down to a year range.
 
2003 was the pinnacle for the new Town Cars. After that they began to ramp down production and started removing features.

I considered getting one several times. I wanted a Cartier L, which adds 6 inches to the rear seat.

My first Lincoln was a '89 Town Car. Bought it in '03, but sold it in '09 due to having an infant and needing more reliable transportation. Didn't have air shocks, but the ride was still great. Riding in the back seat made you feel like an executive.
 
The latest gens of TC's, (2003??? onward...with the sloped rear sheetmetal), still gain approx 3.5" of overall length, and 3.1 inches of wheelbase. Most likely in the back seat area. They also utilized a fully "boxed" frame that was hydrofromed, (no welded seams, and much stronger),,, which includes any panther body of the same years!! The power steering was also changed from gearbox to rack and pinion,,, (for better driver feedback), while still maintaining that big car feel.

Any other changes of the Panther body were not specifically for Marauder production,,, but instead a redesign of, (aluminum), control arms,,, and brakes,,, ( thus the reason for "zero offset" wheels)... and an aluminum engine crossmember. This was all done for weight savings and handling,,, not just for ther Marauder.

One last thing... The term PI can mean 2 different things,,, depending on the Panther you have. It can mean Police Interceptor... or it can mean Performance Improved, (engine). The PI engines, (Performance Improved), had a head redesign, (I forget the changeover year), for increased horsepower. Memory escapes me at the moment,,, but there are aftermarket cams for one engine,,, but not the other... and IIRC there was an issue with doing a head change. it's been a while since I played with all of this.

Thanks to "tirefryr" for pointing out my error on the 3 valve motors. I got confused, ("oldtimers" setting in). I was thinking of the 2 valve issues with stripped or missing spark plug threads in the 2v heads,,, which was a longer issue than the multi-piece spark plugs.

@babyhauler,,, Sounds like you know what you want. Happy searching... and do the research.
 
CV's and GM's do not require aftermarket installation to get air suspension...

Rushsampson said:
...A Ford Crown or a Grand Marquis I'm sure can be converted to air easily enough, but is it worth it to you? I suppose I would weigh the cost of buying a Crown/Grand Marquis, and outfitting it with decent suspension components, versus the cost of buying a well maintained, factory Town Car.
Click to expand...

Actually, while some CVs and GMs come with coil springs (and could be converted) there are others that come OEM equipped with air suspension. It came usually as part of an option package. The most frequent name was the HPP, which I think stands for Handling Performance Package, but FoMoCo also had other package names in different years.

My best guess is that you are more likely to find air suspension in GM's than in CV's, though both can have it, and that it is more likely than not that CV's and GM's will come without air suspension. But it can be found, and if you either want a slightly smaller or less expensive alternative, they can be had with air if you look around.

On the other hand, many people, especially I am sure on this site, would prefer the extra amenities of the Lincoln line, in which case, you're better off there. But you are not limited to the Lincoln in order to get air suspension OEM on FoMoCo vehicles.
 
Dondo5853 said:
if you get a Crown Vic,, or a Mercury Grand Marq,,, you will get a 2:73 rear gear ratio,,, the only way you will get a better gear ratio is to get a police model CV,,, or a Town Car and they come with a 3:27 rear gear,,,
Click to expand...

That is just flatout incorrect. The GM's came with the granny gear 2.73, but the 3.27 could be had as an option. I believe the same was true of the CV's but don't know for sure. But 3.27's were definitely an option on GM's for many years.
 
Most anything you want to know about the CV/GM can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_Grand_Marquis

Beyond that... If anyone is considering swapping a Panther from air ride to coil spring,,, that can be done easily enough with a few parts from a "donor" car.

BUT,,, if anyone is considering swapping from coil spring to air ride,,, that may prove to be a challenge. Sometime during the production of the Panther body,,, Ford went from using a "universal" (one size fits all) wiring harness... to tailor fitted wiring harnesses depending on vehicle options. Ford did this for all of their product lines.

My point is... before you go and buy the parts for an air ride conversion,,, make sure the harnesses and plugs are on the vehicle for the air compressor, level sensor, shut off switch,,, and whatever else is needed. My guess is they won't be... and to wire everything in properly would be a nightmare.
 
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