Iraq Constitution Approved

[MonsterMark]

Iraq Constitution Approval Another Setback for Bush
by Scott Ott

(2005-10-25) -- In yet another setback for the Bush administration, Iraqi electoral officials announced today that voters have approved the new Iraqi Constitution by a margin of 78-to-21 percent.

This new bit of bad news will likely drive President George Bush's popularity ratings into the single digits, according to an unnamed expert from a non-partisan, progressive political think-tank.

"The Bush foreign policy continues to be fatally-wounded by clarity of purpose, dogged persistence and a pathetic failure to capitulate in the face of opposition," the source said. "At a time when a real leader would be paralyzed with self-doubt over the meaningless deaths of 2,000 American troops, Bush continues to act as if freeing 25 million Iraqis from decades of oppression, torture and death is somehow worth the price paid by those who volunteered to fight."

"It's sad to watch our international credibility crumble like this," the anonymous policy expert said. "In 2008, I'm afraid you're going to see voters leaving the Republican party in droves, desperate to find a leader who provides a stronger sense of nuance and ambiguity."

 

[pepperman]

I heard about that on the radio today!!!!!!

 

[fossten]

We're getting there. This just came from Zogby:

Bush Approval Bounce?

President’s job approval hits 45%; Voters optimistic about Iraq after Constitution passage—New Zogby America Poll

President Bush, his job approval rating beleaguered by poor marks in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, rebounded from historic lows this summer to 45% in Zogby International’s latest poll, with job approval numbers bumping back up into the range where they have hovered for most of his second term.

The survey also found that, while voters do not give the President passing marks on his handling of the Iraq War, half (50%) believe the recently-passed Iraqi constitution is a major step in the right direction for the strife-torn nation that will lead to peace and democracy. Meanwhile, 37% believe Iraq is on the brink of a civil war. The Zogby America telephone poll of 1005 likely voters, conducted from October 19 through 21, 2005, has a margin of error of +/-3.2 percentage points.

While the President’s overall job approval is up, and a 52% majority of voters hold a favorable opinion of him, his handling of any number of issues continues to score negative marks—including his handling of the War on Terror, which is now disapproved by 53% in the survey; this is typically President Bush’s strongest area in the survey.

Bush’s bounce appears to be tied to overall perception of the nation’s direction; three weeks ago, just 40% said the nation was on the right track. This number now stands at 45%.

President Bush’s Job Approval Failing to Gain Traction

President Bush’s 45% rating represents the second straight up-tick in his job approval since bottoming out in the immediate aftermath of Hurricane Katrina amid questions about government’s handling of the crisis.

 

[raVeneyes]

It just amazes me how less than six hours after the Iraqi constitution announcement CBS announced it's "Welcome Home Troops" special where they're going to give away three homes, and have a wedding on National TV as well as giving the couple a honeymoon.

You can't tell me this crap isn't staged and designed way ahead of time...

And yet...the war isn't really over...we aren't really pulling all our troops home, and servicemen and women are dying at this very moment...

Also, somehow CBS...part of the supposedly 'liberal' media...is having a "Welcome home troops" special!?!?

 

[eL eS]

god bless those men and women fighting the har fight. I shudder to think how this country would have turned out had our founding fathers been risk adverse and abundant in liberal punditry. Look no farther than gay paris and you will see or even further to the nazi fervor and then again not to far to the soviet czar.

Psychotic zealots and their sympothizers will always be out there but if we can seed the world with some for of democracy the people that want better for themselve, their children and neighbors will ensure that thier government works for them. The day is near when tyranical rulers will yeild to the people rather than vice versa. Long live liberty as should the memories of those who planted the new tree bearing it.

 

[eL eS]

It just amazes me how less than six hours after the Iraqi constitution announcement CBS announced it's "Welcome Home Troops" special where they're going to give away three homes, and have a wedding on National TV as well as giving the couple a honeymoon.

You can't tell me this crap isn't staged and designed way ahead of time...

And yet...the war isn't really over...we aren't really pulling all our troops home, and servicemen and women are dying at this very moment...

Also, somehow CBS...part of the supposedly 'liberal' media...is having a "Welcome home troops" special!?!?

they are trying to cloak their dirty past in good deeds becasue they know when the troops return home the public will know what really went down in the urban and rural towns of Iraq and afghanistan.

All people are born with the inate desire to be free to devlop their life. This dsire is being freed and the MSM want to pretend it isnt all becasue they have political capital they need to maintain.

 

[raVeneyes]

when the troops return home the public will know what really went down in the urban and rural towns of Iraq and afghanistan.

Is this DELUSION night for the conservatives?

The original troops from Afghanistan have been home for months...
We will never know what *really* went on there

When troops come home from the Iraq war...
We will NEVER know what *really* went on there

The Vietnam war has been over for decades...
We will NEVER know what REALLY went on there

Troops don't come home and write tell all books...they don't talk about the war with reporters...troops come home and re-enter the daily life they left and try as best they can to forget the horrors they've seen...and even if they talked all the time about it, we'd still NEVER KNOW WHAT REALLY WENT ON THERE!!!!

 

[eL eS]

Is this DELUSION night for the conservatives?

The original troops from Afghanistan have been home for months...
We will never know what *really* went on there

When troops come home from the Iraq war...
We will NEVER know what *really* went on there

The Vietnam war has been over for decades...
We will NEVER know what REALLY went on there

Troops don't come home and write tell all books...they don't talk about the war with reporters...troops come home and re-enter the daily life they left and try as best they can to forget the horrors they've seen...and even if they talked all the time about it, we'd still NEVER KNOW WHAT REALLY WENT ON THERE!!!!

you might not ever know becasue I have a strong suspicion you are not liked very much and folks of their caliber will not reach out to you. I on the other hand get to know the people without making judgements. I am a war veteran and I have family involved in this conflict. I would also like to point out the our men and women are not back from afghanistan. They are still there working ferishly everyday to bring some sanity back to a hell hole and forgotten land.

I think if you tried talking to people rather than at them with your blurry and slanted position you might get to know what really happened. Only you can change that all the brow beating in the worold from level minded conservatives can't begin to penetrate that opinion of yours.

You need a trip to some of these scarry parts of the world... you would be very suprised with what you find out from the man, woman or child in the street. You think you know it becasue you were told it by a paid pundit with an agenda. That is not worldly knowledge by any measure.

 

[raVeneyes]

you might not ever know becasue I have a strong suspicion you are not liked very much and folks of their caliber will not reach out to you. I on the other hand get to know the people without making judgements. I am a war veteran and I have family involved in this conflict. I would also like to point out the our men and women are not back from afghanistan. They are still there working ferishly everyday to bring some sanity back to a hell hole and forgotten land.

I think if you tried talking to people rather than at them with your blurry and slanted position you might get to know what really happened. Only you can change that all the brow beating in the worold from level minded conservatives can't begin to penetrate that opinion of yours.

You need a trip to some of these scarry parts of the world... you would be very suprised with what you find out from the man, woman or child in the street. You think you know it becasue you were told it by a paid pundit with an agenda. That is not worldly knowledge by any measure.

My my my...what a self important little arrogant A HOLE you are Noah.

Just about everyone that has read a lot of my posts will agree I'm the most likely guy to put myself in someone else's shoes and be understanding of their point of view. There are a *few* people who I just don't see eye to eye with, and though we disagree none of them has ever had the balls to say I am not liked or not person of worthy caliber.

Why don't you shove it up your tail pipe you little puke. I've been to scary parts of this grand world of ours...I've even been to really really scary parts of our own nation...and you know what I found...people...people I got to know and love and have friendships with. As I've said before, unlike you conservatives who think you know people after conquering them...I went in as a person, not some crusader with an agenda...just as a person making my way with the people I found in those places.

Why don't you put yourself in someone else's shoes every once in a while...maybe you wouldn't be so likely to 'brow beat' people with your crap opinions.


===============

I'd also like to note that while a conservative started with the personal attacks I'm sure I'll be the one to be taken to task for it by someone...I apologize in advance to those of you who have to read this, but I don't take kindly to what some people assume around here, and there's not much else those individuals seem to understand at times.

And Bryan I'd appreciate you not editing this.

 

[MonsterMark]

And why shouldn't I?

What did Noah say that deserves the comments you made?

Please explain...otherwise out comes the slash and delete button because i am getting a little tired of the personal bashing stuff. I was guilty of it myself last weekend but I received a PM for the individual affected and I deleted my comment. So I completely understand getting a little heated. Take a moment to think about what you wrote. Maybe in reflection you will see that maybe you do not want to have people read ALLl the comments you made, just the ones that further your argument.

I'll wait for a response. And Noah, if you want to chime in, please do. We'll settle it and then I will delete the last couple of posts to clean the thread up.

 

[eL eS]

Ihave worn the shoes of a poor person and I have been to the frontlines and met the local folks in foriegn lands and I have seen how much more impoverished people can be. as a crusader as you call it I have built homes and feed people rendered medical aid and simply just got to know people. Your over generalization of what the fine folks in our military do demonstrates very publically what a hypocrite you are.

I suppose you get to know people better by keeping them on an entitlement program. I suppose you get to know people better by support enabling women to have abortions and going ltie on criminals. Frankly they way your party gets to know poeple is deplorable.

Your words roll off my eyes like water off a ducks back.

Bryan I do not mind if you let his words stand as he submitted them; I think they say more about liberalism than any retort I could architect.

My my my...what a self important little arrogant A HOLE you are Noah.

Just about everyone that has read a lot of my posts will agree I'm the most likely guy to put myself in someone else's shoes and be understanding of their point of view. There are a *few* people who I just don't see eye to eye with, and though we disagree none of them has ever had the balls to say I am not liked or not person of worthy caliber.

Why don't you shove it up your tail pipe you little puke. I've been to scary parts of this grand world of ours...I've even been to really really scary parts of our own nation...and you know what I found...people...people I got to know and love and have friendships with. As I've said before, unlike you conservatives who think you know people after conquering them...I went in as a person, not some crusader with an agenda...just as a person making my way with the people I found in those places.

Why don't you put yourself in someone else's shoes every once in a while...maybe you wouldn't be so likely to 'brow beat' people with your crap opinions.


===============

I'd also like to note that while a conservative started with the personal attacks I'm sure I'll be the one to be taken to task for it by someone...I apologize in advance to those of you who have to read this, but I don't take kindly to what some people assume around here, and there's not much else those individuals seem to understand at times.

And Bryan I'd appreciate you not editing this.

 

[TheDude]

Is this DELUSION night for the conservatives?

The original troops from Afghanistan have been home for months...
We will never know what *really* went on there

When troops come home from the Iraq war...
We will NEVER know what *really* went on there

The Vietnam war has been over for decades...
We will NEVER know what REALLY went on there

Troops don't come home and write tell all books...they don't talk about the war with reporters...troops come home and re-enter the daily life they left and try as best they can to forget the horrors they've seen...and even if they talked all the time about it, we'd still NEVER KNOW WHAT REALLY WENT ON THERE!!!!

If any troops come home and speak out against the war, they will be labeled liberal puppets and anti-american cowards by the right.

 

[raVeneyes]

And why shouldn't I?

Because I prefer to let the comments stand on their own good/bad points

What did Noah say that deserves the comments you made?

How does a personal comment like:

I have a strong suspicion you are not liked very much and folks of their caliber will not reach out to you.

not deserve a personal response?

Please explain...otherwise out comes the slash and delete button because i am getting a little tired of the personal bashing stuff. I was guilty of it myself last weekend but I received a PM for the individual affected and I deleted my comment. So I completely understand getting a little heated. Take a moment to think about what you wrote. Maybe in reflection you will see that maybe you do not want to have people read ALLl the comments you made, just the ones that further your argument.

I'll wait for a response. And Noah, if you want to chime in, please do. We'll settle it and then I will delete the last couple of posts to clean the thread up.

I love to keep arguments non-personal, but I'm afraid some of your conservative buddies are getting away with starting a personal bashing attack over and over and over and when I finally respond only then does it all get deleted. I'm also tired of not responding and being made out to be unresponsive due to lack of argument.

 

[TheDude]

My my my...what a self important little arrogant A HOLE you are Noah.

Just about everyone that has read a lot of my posts will agree I'm the most likely guy to put myself in someone else's shoes and be understanding of their point of view. There are a *few* people who I just don't see eye to eye with, and though we disagree none of them has ever had the balls to say I am not liked or not person of worthy caliber.

Why don't you shove it up your tail pipe you little puke. I've been to scary parts of this grand world of ours...I've even been to really really scary parts of our own nation...and you know what I found...people...people I got to know and love and have friendships with. As I've said before, unlike you conservatives who think you know people after conquering them...I went in as a person, not some crusader with an agenda...just as a person making my way with the people I found in those places.

Why don't you put yourself in someone else's shoes every once in a while...maybe you wouldn't be so likely to 'brow beat' people with your crap opinions.


===============

I'd also like to note that while a conservative started with the personal attacks I'm sure I'll be the one to be taken to task for it by someone...I apologize in advance to those of you who have to read this, but I don't take kindly to what some people assume around here, and there's not much else those individuals seem to understand at times.

And Bryan I'd appreciate you not editing this.

Dont let it get to you, it's just the tactics they use. Here, have a little laugh with this.

http://www.thefrown.com/frowners/becomerepublican.swf

It'd be completely funny if a lot of it weren't true.

 

[raVeneyes]

I have worn the shoes of a poor person and I have been to the frontlines and met the local folks in foriegn lands and I have seen how much more impoverished people can be. as a crusader as you call it I have built homes and feed people rendered medical aid and simply just got to know people. Your over generalization of what the fine folks in our military do demonstrates very publically what a hypocrite you are.

Did I say "Conquering military"? No...I wasn't talking about military...I was talking about conservative 'philanthropists' who *think* they're helping people when all they really do is come in and look down on the people they're 'helping'.

I suppose you get to know people better by keeping them on an entitlement program. I suppose you get to know people better by support enabling women to have abortions and going ltie on criminals. Frankly they way your party gets to know poeple is deplorable.

For one thing...I get to know people better by living with them...the same way they live. I get to know people better by being in their situation and not holding myself aside from it.

I support people by:

standing beside brave women who've made their choice, for whatever reason, and shielding them...actually physically shielding them...from attacks (words, plastic bottles, ROCKS!) by better than thou butt wipes.

teaching criminals about the good things that they have the power to do and showing them the ease with which they can make a difference

For another thing I DON'T HAVE A PARTY...I've voted Democrat, Republican, AND Independent depending on the candidate who has the better ideas.

 

[eL eS]

Did I say "Conquering military"? No...I wasn't talking about military...I was talking about conservative 'philanthropists' who *think* they're helping people when all they really do is come in and look down on the people they're 'helping'.

so in your opinion is our military helping people in Iraq and Afghanistan?

 

[eL eS]

I support people by:

standing beside brave women who've made their choice, for whatever reason, and shielding them...actually physically shielding them...from attacks (words, plastic bottles, ROCKS!) by better than thou butt wipes.

teaching criminals about the good things that they have the power to do and showing them the ease with which they can make a difference

For another thing I DON'T HAVE A PARTY...I've voted Democrat, Republican, AND Independent depending on the candidate who has the better ideas.

I support lives by proteting the those who can not voice their plight... the unborn. You might not have a party but you have an ideology that leads to dependancy, the demise of families and the promotion of immorality.

 

[raVeneyes]

so in your opinion is our military helping people in Iraq and Afghanistan?

I think that individual service men and women are helping every day...wherever they are...because military training instills values of teamwork and compassion for those you care about.

I think that the military campaigns are a distracting hoax of massive proportions and were for the most part unnecessary. The Taliban and Osama Bin Laden could have been taken care of in other ways...and the war on Iraq is a laughable farce that seemed like a good distraction at the time.

 

[raVeneyes]

I support lives byproteting the those who can not voice their plight... the unborn. You might not have a party but you have an ideology that leads to dependancy, the demise of families and the promotion of immorality.

You have an ideology that leads to elitism and racism and the demise of freedom and equality along with the promotion of hypocrisy... As I said earlier...they're just VIEWPOINTS neither is intrinsically good or bad...they both have their good and bad points.

 

[eL eS]

I think that individual service men and women are helping every day...wherever they are...because military training instills values of teamwork and compassion for those you care about.

I think that the military campaigns are a distracting hoax of massive proportions and were for the most part unnecessary. The Taliban and Osama Bin Laden could have been taken care of in other ways...and the war on Iraq is a laughable farce that seemed like a good distraction at the time.

handled in another way... What other way? For a guy that protets others your comments seem very contradictory. Were there not people being killed, tourtured and murdered in Iraq by Saddan? Oh wait I see you would rather rehabilitate them all and continue to support the killing of the unborn by those who had a choice in many cases to pratice abstinence.

Although it is diffuclt for me to justify I can make room for victims of a crime to pursue abortion but a life threating circumstance is without a doubt a reasonable casue to.

The MO seems to protect the killers, tyrants and criminals.

 

[eL eS]

You have an ideology that leads to elitism and racism and the demise of freedom and equality along with the promotion of hypocrisy... As I said earlier...they're just VIEWPOINTS neither is intrinsically good or bad...they both have their good and bad points.

really so how many hollywood liberals are not elitist or who many of the democratice party are not eliteist. Post civil war Demoracts raised the klan and promoted race hating in an effort to establish their party.

Hey why don't you tak some time to read this article from the washington post from June 2005 and learn a little about racism and elitism.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/18/AR2005061801105_pf.html

 

[fossten]

My my my...what a self important little arrogant A HOLE you are Noah.

Just about everyone that has read a lot of my posts will agree I'm the most likely guy to put myself in someone else's shoes and be understanding of their point of view. There are a *few* people who I just don't see eye to eye with, and though we disagree none of them has ever had the balls to say I am not liked or not person of worthy caliber.

Why don't you shove it up your tail pipe you little puke. I've been to scary parts of this grand world of ours...I've even been to really really scary parts of our own nation...and you know what I found...people...people I got to know and love and have friendships with. As I've said before, unlike you conservatives who think you know people after conquering them...I went in as a person, not some crusader with an agenda...just as a person making my way with the people I found in those places.

Why don't you put yourself in someone else's shoes every once in a while...maybe you wouldn't be so likely to 'brow beat' people with your crap opinions.


===============

I'd also like to note that while a conservative started with the personal attacks I'm sure I'll be the one to be taken to task for it by someone...I apologize in advance to those of you who have to read this, but I don't take kindly to what some people assume around here, and there's not much else those individuals seem to understand at times.

And Bryan I'd appreciate you not editing this.

Raveneyes, you really pull the trigger fast. Your second response to EL ES went nuclear. Why don't you just sit back and let someone else get tagged for personal attacks? You seem to have a short fuse. I know I do it too, but usually it takes me more than 2 posts to fly off the handle.

 

[eL eS]

Raveneyes, you really pull the trigger fast. Your second response to EL ES went nuclear. Why don't you just sit back and let someone else get tagged for personal attacks? You seem to have a short fuse. I know I do it too, but usually it takes me more than 2 posts to fly off the handle.

no no no see this is the new prototypical liberal compassion, acceptance and love they promote. It is hard to ascertain the origins but some time well after Roosevelts new deal this became the norm.

 

[TheDude]

no no no see this is the new prototypical liberal compassion, acceptance and love they promote. It is hard to ascertain the origins but some time well after Roosevelts new deal this became the norm.

I love it, you attack his character, he retorts with a character attack on you and he's the a-hole.

 

[TheDude]

really so how many hollywood liberals are not elitist or who many of the democratice party are not eliteist. Post civil war Demoracts raised the klan and promoted race hating in an effort to establish their party.

Hey why don't you tak some time to read this article from the washington post from June 2005 and learn a little about racism and elitism.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/18/AR2005061801105_pf.html

True, but the Republican party that freed the slaves is not the Republican party of today, a lot has changed since 1865. Same goes for the left.

Also, the KKK and its member's are not people hanging on the left side of the fence. have you ever seen a KKK rally, I have. Those people are definately not sympathetic to the Democratic party.