Watching that footage on the news yesterday was one of the most heart-wrhenching things I've ever seen in my life. Watching the soldiers beg and plead while crying to get the protesters to move peacefully.... And knowing that most of the soldiers thought what they were doing was wrong anyways. Meanwhile, the Palestinians were just across the border burning Israeli flags by the dozen. Someone actually gave them credit for not mortaring Gaza since the pullouts began. The old inhabitants of the Gaza Strip were brave people who were betrayed by their government, and my heart goes out to all of them....
Israeli pullout in Gaza
- Thread starter MAllen82
- Start date
MonsterMark
Dedicated LVC Member
Big mistake by the Israelis. Once again good intentions will meet with terrible results. The Palestinians see a victory in this and thus will be emboldened to move and try to claim the West Bank amd then ultimately Jerusalem.
formerknown
Dedicated LVC Member
Wow, for the first time, Israel is getting soft and giving in to the demands of hoodlums. Good for them! That should drop the body count...
If you give spoiled whining children a glass of milk... they're going to want cookies.
If you give spoiled whining children a glass of milk... they're going to want cookies.
haha, Barry, I guess you can never call us mindless Kool Aid drinkers from now on!! I would like that to be known!!! I never said Bush was god, I just said what he's accomplished in his presidency is wonderful, and being overshadowed by a bunch of whiny election losing, socialist regime wanting annoyances. I wish we were more like Israel!! Screw protocol, if we know someone is involved in terrorism, I say we even skip a raid and guns and just fire a freaking missile at them. Job done.
ps. and for the record I will say that the pullout is 100% wrong, and anyone who agrees with it is gravely mistaken in my eyes when it comes to that.
pps. Barry, proving that we disagree with Bush on something isn't a victory by the way. There's no point in rejoicing over that, everyone disagrees with their president at one point or another.
ps. and for the record I will say that the pullout is 100% wrong, and anyone who agrees with it is gravely mistaken in my eyes when it comes to that.
pps. Barry, proving that we disagree with Bush on something isn't a victory by the way. There's no point in rejoicing over that, everyone disagrees with their president at one point or another.
fossten
Dedicated LVC Member
barry2952 said:
1. I do think it is a mistake.
2. I've never said Bush doesn't err. Unlike you libs, I'll speak out against my leaders if I disagree. I don't just swallow everything they say like you guys do.
Bush says Gaza pullout "will be good for Israel"
Thu Aug 11, 2005 06:27 PM ET
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Bush's remarks, in an interview given to Israel's Channel One television and aired on Thursday, appeared to be an attempt to boost Prime Minister Ariel Sharon against Jewish rightists seeking to thwart the withdrawal due to start on August 17.
"I believe the decision that Prime Minister Sharon has made and is going to follow through on will be good for Israel," Bush said, interviewed at his ranch in Crawford, Texas.
Asked why he thought Israel's "disengagement" from the occupied land would help Israeli security, Bush replied:
"First of all the previous system wasn't working. There was an intifada (Palestinian uprising), there was death, there was killing. And if you notice, there's been a calm in attacks."
Palestinian militants have generally observed a ceasefire since February.
The Israeli reporter asked Bush whether he understood critics who argue the withdrawal will bring more Palestinian violence rather than calm it.
"Oh absolutely, I understand. And I can understand why people think this decision is one that will create a vacuum into which terrorism will flow," Bush replied.
"I happen to disagree. I think this will create an opportunity for democracy to emerge and democracies are peaceful."
Bush reiterated the goal of a U.S.-backed "road map" peace plan to achieve the goal of a Palestinian state alongside Israel and its call on Palestinians to dismantle militant groups.
"I think in the long run two states living side by side in peace is the ultimate solution for Israel's security," he said. "In the meantime we've got to work, you know, to dismantle terrorist organisations, and that's precisely what the road map calls for."
var year = new Date() document.write('© Reuters ' + year.getFullYear() + ". All Rights Reserved." ); © Reuters 2005. All Rights Reserved.
eL eS
Dedicated LVC Member
thepull out is exactally what they did not need. The terrorist that are running palestine already believe it was their suicide attacks and terror campaign that led to this pullot. I can where israel might think they are taking the high road but this will blow up on the. This just gives those wackos a braoder ring of fire now and the israeli army will end up having to fight em out in the end.
Palestine lives forthe death of all jewish people not democracy.
Palestine lives forthe death of all jewish people not democracy.
fossten
Dedicated LVC Member
barry2952 said:
You wish. LOL.
You know, I actually wanted this thread to be more focused on the pain of the Israelis, and all that they are going through, not just another chance for someone who doesn't like Bush to demean him. I guess that's not possible for a liberal to just have a discussion without pushing their views of Bush or republicans.
eL eS
Dedicated LVC Member
MAllen82 said:
yea it reminds of something this guy i works with says jokingly....
well that is enough about me... now what do you think about me!
the next time a lib post one of these :sleep: hopefully it will be while sitting in a running car with garage door closed!
MonsterMark
Dedicated LVC Member
Check it out and get back to us.
Hey Ron, I guess you feel this 'pullback' will make Hamas irrelevant and they will now stop attacking, right?
Hey Ron, I guess you feel this 'pullback' will make Hamas irrelevant and they will now stop attacking, right?
Who cares if it's a UN mandate??? The UN is the most worthless international body there is!!!!! They pick favorites, and then protect their own!!! They practice the same appeasment tactics that lead us to WWII.
fossten
Dedicated LVC Member
MAllen82 said:
Yeah!!! The UN is no better than the failed League of Nations.
Vitas
Dedicated LVC Member
I remember quite clearly, my enthusiasm after the fall of the Berlin Wall, for real peace amongst all human beings.
I also remember, shortly thereafter, reading news accounts of both Israelis and Palestinians blowing each other’s brains out.
THE WHOLE REST OF THE WORLD IS SICK AND TIRED OF THIS NONSENSE.
I don't care how it is worked out, this kindergarten nonsense has to stop.
I also remember, shortly thereafter, reading news accounts of both Israelis and Palestinians blowing each other’s brains out.
THE WHOLE REST OF THE WORLD IS SICK AND TIRED OF THIS NONSENSE.
I don't care how it is worked out, this kindergarten nonsense has to stop.
I'm a Jew and I think that the Israeli government is doing the right thing. Their leader sees the sense in removing the stick from the beehive. The Israelis proved their point when they took the land against all odds. I am confidant that Israel will retake the land if there is no peace. If and when this happens the Palestinians will have dug their own grave. No one wanted them before and surely no one will want them after they've broken the peace.
As a Jew I fail to understand this country's fascination with Israel. I have nothing in common with them. I don't give them a second thought except that our prescence in the area allows the oil to keep flowing. As a child I raised money for planting trees in Israel as it was a barren wasteland but after '67 they became the American puppet in the Middle East.
Most Israelis I've met have been rude and stand-offish (much like New Yorkers). They live in a communal mindset that many of you on the right would, under other circumstances, call it Communism. Someone told me I should put myself in the Palestinians shoes and when I did I found that Israel has been brutal in dealing with it's citizens. I know you guys hate the UN but you often hang your hat on what they do or don't do. Israel has a worse record or ignoring UN edicts than Saddam ever did. Israel has a Secret Police and they have hit squads and their "big brother" is always watching. This is our ally?
Don't get me wrong. I respect the Israeli people for what they have accomplished in medicine, electronics and other fields. I respect that they have accomplished these things against all odds and under constant threat of destrution but I don't know if the rights of 8,500 settlers supercedes the right to peace in the Middle East.
As a Jew I fail to understand this country's fascination with Israel. I have nothing in common with them. I don't give them a second thought except that our prescence in the area allows the oil to keep flowing. As a child I raised money for planting trees in Israel as it was a barren wasteland but after '67 they became the American puppet in the Middle East.
Most Israelis I've met have been rude and stand-offish (much like New Yorkers). They live in a communal mindset that many of you on the right would, under other circumstances, call it Communism. Someone told me I should put myself in the Palestinians shoes and when I did I found that Israel has been brutal in dealing with it's citizens. I know you guys hate the UN but you often hang your hat on what they do or don't do. Israel has a worse record or ignoring UN edicts than Saddam ever did. Israel has a Secret Police and they have hit squads and their "big brother" is always watching. This is our ally?
Don't get me wrong. I respect the Israeli people for what they have accomplished in medicine, electronics and other fields. I respect that they have accomplished these things against all odds and under constant threat of destrution but I don't know if the rights of 8,500 settlers supercedes the right to peace in the Middle East.
Well, I would say that Israel is the stick in the behive itself. The muslims will continue to attack the Israelis until they are dead. Pulling out just gave them more resolve to further the attacks. In fact, muslims won't stop until every non-muslim on the planet is gone. The biggest problem that I see with the situation is that these people were asked to be pioneers and settle that land. They did so enduring rocket and mortar attacks every day almost for what I believe is 30 years(that may not be accurate). And now these people are being forced from their homes. I don't care who agrees with it, even Bush, I think it's the worst thing to happen since 9/11. As far as them being stand-offish, I haven't experienced that, and I grew up mostly with Jews. I used to get teased by them because I looked more Jewish than some of the Jewish kids. But I remember meeting just a small number of Israeli Jews, and they seemed just as polite as anyone else, but I admit you're probably a better judge of that since you've most likely met more.
You have a right to your opinion. I would only ask that you capitalize Jew or Jewish out of respect. I always capitalize names of religions as I capitalize President when I refer to GWB. If not for respect for the man, but for the office.
I would agree with you that Israel is the stick in the big picture but the settlers in Gaza and the West Bank are the stick in the microcosm of the Middle East.
I would agree with you that Israel is the stick in the big picture but the settlers in Gaza and the West Bank are the stick in the microcosm of the Middle East.
Thank you for reacting positively to my request. Whether you believe so or not, I believe that "Muslim" also deserves to be capitalized. Many here have called it a false or made-up religion. Aren't all religions made up? Catholics say that Protestants aren't going to get into Heaven and other religions have their own idiocyncrasies but they all deserve respect as they are people's beliefs. Like opinions, beliefs can't be right or wrong. Only actions can be right or wrong.
I will disagree with you on Muslims only because they are the main group of people pulling off these attacks. And I realize that it's only a small sect of people in Islam doing this, but, the rest of Islam is not doing enough to get rid of these people. I am the forst Catholic to say that my religion has many problems within itself, but they still don't teach to convert by the sword, although it was a practice for hundreds of years, that is not official doctrine, unlike Islam. That being said, there will never be another time when the Catholic Church will do things as horrible as the Crusades and Inquisition. And if they ever do again, I will turn in my membership card in a split second. However, I think that a belief in itself contains the thought that other beliefs are wrong. I mean, If you say you are a Baptist, you are in a sense saying that a Lutheran or Episcopalean or even a Buddhist is inherently wrong. Compare that to political parties. Being that I'm a Republican, I inherently say that I disagree on a whole with what the Democrat's goals for the country are. Now, obviously opinions change. And if you agree with both parties equally on a myriad of issues, then you are technically an independent, even if you are a member of the DNC or RNC. And then there are Nader supporters who should just sit there and play with their toys, and leave the politics to mom and dad.