Its a sad sad day.

whatsupadrian

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Well 2001 lincoln LS8 60,000miles. Blown motor. I was on my way home from school today, drove the car 1 mile to the freeway, it was running fine, Get on the on ramp i can hear something comming from the engine. Trying to think what the problem is a light flashes on, the oil light. WTF i just changed my oil 3 weeks ago and i knew i wasnt leaking anything because my driveway is clean, something is definately wrong at this point 2 miles to offramp. Taking it real easy WTF the noise is getting really loud. The engine siezes i loose power steering, wait the engine started again??? puts over a few. Crunch, feels as though your driving on a gravel road and gravel is shooting up hitting the floor of the car. In the rear view mirror i see a cloud of black smoke come out the back of my car. Rolled to the side of the freeway and pulled over. I look under the car there is a mess of oil all over the place on the passenger side behind the wheel well. I look around and i have 2 nice size chunks of cast aluminum clinging to stuff. Had the car towed to the dealor, probably going to void my warranty because of the intake.

My guess is i lost oil pressure somehow and my engine got no oil and siezed and grinded the crap out of stuff and pushed a rod through the block.

Im almost certain i blew my motor, what are my options to get this fixed the cheapest?
 
It most definitely sounds like you added a window to your block. I have to say...this is the very first 3.9 I have ever heard of coming apart like this. It will be interesting to see what they find. And yes...they COULD cause you grief over the intake. But if they do, be reasonable and calm with them. See if they can't explain to you why they would deny the warranty. Then explaing to them that you just don't see how an intake could cause such a problem. Honestly...they need to PROVE the intake caused the problem. But that is such a huge loophole, I wouldn't bank on that. Of course, if there is evidence the intake DID in fact cause damage, you're screwed. Such things as foreign object damage in the engine, running lean, etc could be cause for concern. But I'm betting it had nothing to do with it.
 
MAN thats just horible I hope they cover you under your policy. Keep us informed, good luck.

-Scott-
 
I think I'll carry the stock system in my trunk just in case. Really sorry to hear this, I'd die if it was me. Good luck and keep us posted.
 
This is a real good example for a point (I'm not trying to be an ass or anything by this):

ANY TIME you see an engine oil light come on, IMMEDIATELY pull over and kill it or kill it and drift to the side of the road. You could save yourself a lot of grief with some quick action.

As for your situation, I'm wondering what could have caused such a dramatic loss of oil pressure to cause such a catastrophic engine failure.
 
Ok well i just got a call from the dealor, there is a giant hole in the side of my motor. They called to ask me if i wanted to authorize a teardown of $2500 so an inspector can inspect the motor and see why it blew. If they decide to cover the motor then the $2500 will be included in the warranty, but if they decide to not cover the car then i loose $2500.

I authorized the teardown, i know i wasnt being hard on the car at the time the motor blew. I know there are a few techs that come here, what do the warranty inspectors look for?? What do you think can happen?
 
sorry for the mishap, the $2500 would probably be enough to do a 03+ swap with the 280HP VVT motor.
 
2500 to teardown???? you can buy a low miles engine from scrapyard under $2k (WELL under 2k).
 
I would argue over te $2500 -- You shouldnt have to pay for their decision process - Show them the receipt for the oil change and tell them to fix the friggin car - If they give you lip -- call Lincoln Customer Service

LINCOLN BY PHONE:
Toll Free: (800) 521-4140
Hours of Operation:
8:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. Local Time (Monday-Friday)
 
02V8Sport said:
sorry for the mishap, the $2500 would probably be enough to do a 03+ swap with the 280HP VVT motor.
I somehow doubt that would be true. Aside from the cost of the engine, you have the cost of the new PCM, and probably all of the other modules, as well as the different wiring harnesses. The '03s and newer use a different architecture (CAN), wherein the PCM and the other modules live in a network.

The word I got was that there's no way an '03 or newer tranny will work in a pre-'03 LS, so the reverse is probably true, which would mean that you'd have to factor in the cost of the new tranny as well.
 
Joeychgo said:
I would argue over te $2500 -- You shouldnt have to pay for their decision process - Show them the receipt for the oil change and tell them to fix the friggin car -
$2500 sounds way high for a diagnostic session, but it's going to cost the dealer money to do the diagnostics (he has to pay the mechanics and techs who'll be spending their time on it), and he certainly doesn't want to eat those costs if the warranty claim is going to be denied because of something you did. He's just trying to make sure his butt is covered, and the book probably shows a boatload of hours involved in pulling the LS's engine, since it comes out from below.

It sucks, but there's not a hell of a lot you can do about it now. If the insurance carrier on the warranty does try to void the warranty, it's going to be worth at least $2500 worth of lawyer time to get it fixed...
 
Yeah - but Ive had occasions happen where the dealer has tried tyo charge me for something saying its not covered under warranty - Called Lincoln and found out it was covered. (without getting into details, it sounded like the dealer was gonna try to double dip) Consequently I dont trust dealers much.

Beyond that - why do the need to know why the engine blew? As long as the car was recently serviced, there should be no issue. What could they really tell by tearing down the engine that would void the warranty?
 
Crap, I've got a warranty that covers that junk. One of the "this crap will never happen so we'll cover that in our warranty" things... I'd get a whole new engine if it happened to me.

But sorry to hear it happened to you dude.
 
Wait, why would a cold air intake cause a void of warranty? u guys mean if the filter came apart on the inside?
damn. if this turns out to be that I'm going back to stock asap.
 
Here's a little light reading about aftermarket items voiding warranties:

Can an automotive dealership void your warranty?

Understanding the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975.

Nearly everyone has heard about someone who has taken a vehicle that has been modified with aftermarket parts to a dealer for warranty service, only to have the dealer refuse to cover the defective items. The dealer usually states that because of the aftermarket parts the warranty is void, without even attempting to determine whether the aftermarket part caused the problem.

This is illegal.

Vehicle manufacturers are not allowed to void the vehicle warranty just because aftermarket parts are on the vehicle. To better understand this problem it is best to know the differences between the two types of new car warranties and the two types of emission warranties.

When a vehicle is purchased new and the owner is protected against the faults that may occur by an expressed warranty - an offer by the manufacturer to assume the responsibility for problems with predetermined parts during a stated period of time. Beyond the expressed warranty, the vehicle manufacturer is often held responsible for further implied warranties. These state that a manufactured product should meet certain standards. However, in both cases, the mere presence of aftermarket parts doesn't void the warranty.

There are also two emission warranties (defect and performance) required under the clean air act. The defect warranty requires the manufacturer to produce a vehicle which, at the time of sale, is free of defects that would cause it to not meet the required emission levels for it's useful life as defined in the law. The performance warranty implies a vehicle must maintain certain levels of emission performance over it's useful life. If the vehicle fails to meet the performance warranty requirements, the manufacturer must make repairs at no cost to the owner, even if an aftermarket part is directly responsible for a warranty claim, the vehicle manufacturer cannot void the performance warranty. This protection is the result of a parts self - certification program developed by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA).

In cases where such a failed aftermarket part is responsible for a warranty claim, the vehicle manufacturer must arrange a settlement with the consumer, but by law the new - vehicle warranty is not voided.

Overall, the laws governing warranties are very clear. The only time a new vehicle warranty can be voided is if an aftermarket part has been installed and it can be proven that it is responsible for an emission warranty claim. However, a vehicle manufacturer or dealership cannot void a warranty simply because an an aftermarket equipment has been installed on a vehicle.

If a dealership denies a warranty claim and you think the claim falls under the rules explained above concerning the clean air act (such as an emission part failure), obtain a written explanation of the dealers refusal. Then follow the steps outlined in the owners manual. However, if this fails, then phone your complaint in to the EPA at (202) 233-9040 or (202) 326-9100.

If a dealer denies a warranty claim involving an implied or expressed new car warranty and you would like help, you can contact the Federal Trade Commission (FTC). The FTC works for the consumer to prevent fraudulent, deceptive and unfair business practices in the marketplace and to provide information to help consumers spot, stop and avoid them. To file a complaint, you can call toll-free, 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357), or use the online complaint form. The FTC enters Internet, telemarketing, and other fraud-related complaints into Consumer Sentinel, a secure, online database available to hundreds of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies worldwide.

WHAT IS THE MAGNUSON-MOSS WARRANTY ACT?

On January 4, 1975, President Ford signed into law the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, Title 1, ..101-112, 15 U.S.C. ..2301 et seq. This act, effective July 4, 1975, is designed to "improve the adequacy of information available to consumers, prevent deception, and improve competition in the marketing of consumer products. . . ." The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act applies only to consumer products, which are defined as "any tangible personal property which is distributed in commerce and which is normally used for personal, family, or household purposes (including any such property intended to be attached to or installed in any real property without regard to whether it is so attached or installed)." Under Section 103 of the Act, if a warrantor sells a consumer product costing more than $15 under written warranty, the writing must state the warranty in readily understandable language as determined by standards set forth by the Federal Trade Commission. There is, however, no requirement that a warranty be given nor that any product be warranted for any length of time. Thus the Act only requires that when there is a written warranty, the warrantor clearly disclose the nature of his warranty obligation prior to the sale of the product. The consumer may then compare warranty protection, thus shopping for the "best buy." To further protect the consumer from deception, the Act requires that any written warranty must be labeled as either a "full" or a "limited" warranty. Only warranties that meet the standards of the Act may be labeled as "full." One of the most important provisions of the Act prohibits a warrantor from disclaiming or modifying any implied warranty whenever any written warranty is given or service contract entered into. Implied warranties may, however, be limited in duration if the limitation is reasonable, conscionable, and set forth in clear and unmistakable language prominently displayed on the face of the warranty. A consumer damaged by breach of warranty, or noncompliance with the act, may sue in either state or federal district court. Access to federal court, however, is severely limited by the Act's provision that no claim may be brought in federal court if: (a) The amount in controversy of any individual claim is less than $25,000; (b) the amount in controversy is less than the sum or value of $50,000 computed on the basis of all claims in the suit; or (c) a class action is brought, and the number of named plaintiffs is less than 100. In light of these requirements it is likely that most suits will be brought in state court. If the consumer prevails, he is awarded costs and attorneys' fees. Nothing in the Act invalidates any right or remedy available under state law, and most suits should proceed on claims based on both the Code and the Act.

Understanding the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is the federal law that governs consumer product warranties. Passed by Congress in 1975, the Act requires manufacturers and sellers of consumer products to provide consumers with detailed information about warranty coverage. In addition, it affects both the rights of consumers and the obligations of warrantors under written warranties.

To understand the Act, it is useful to be aware of Congress' intentions in passing it. First, Congress wanted to ensure that consumers could get complete information about warranty terms and conditions. By providing consumers with a way of learning what warranty coverage is offered on a product before they buy, the Act gives consumers a way to know what to expect if something goes wrong, and thus helps to increase customer satisfaction.

Second, Congress wanted to ensure that consumers could compare warranty coverage before buying. By comparing, consumers can choose a product with the best combination of price, features, and warranty coverage to meet their individual needs.

Third, Congress intended to promote competition on the basis of warranty coverage. By assuring that consumers can get warranty information, the Act encourages sales promotion on the basis of warranty coverage and competition among companies to meet consumer preferences through various levels of warranty coverage.

Finally, Congress wanted to strengthen existing incentives for companies to perform their warranty obligations in a timely and thorough manner and to resolve any disputes with a minimum of delay and expense to consumers. Thus, the Act makes it easier for consumers to pursue a remedy for breach of warranty in the courts, but it also creates a framework for companies to set up procedures for resolving disputes inexpensively and informally, without litigation.

What the Magnuson-Moss Act Does Not Require

In order to understand how the Act affects you as a businessperson, it is important first to understand what the Act does not require.

First, the Act does not require any business to provide a written warranty. The Act allows businesses to determine whether to warrant their products in writing. However, once a business decides to offer a written warranty on a consumer product, it must comply with the Act.

Second, the Act does not apply to oral warranties. Only written warranties are covered.

Third, the Act does not apply to warranties on services. Only warranties on goods are covered. However, if your warranty covers both the parts provided for a repair and the workmanship in making that repair, the Act does apply to you.

Finally, the Act does not apply to warranties on products sold for resale or for commercial purposes. The Act covers only warranties on consumer products. This means that only warranties on tangible property normally used for personal, family, or household purposes are covered. (This includes property attached to or installed on real property.) Note that applicability of the Act to a particular product does not, however, depend upon how an individual buyer will use it.

The following section of this manual summarizes what the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act requires warrantors to do, what it prohibits them from doing, and how it affects warranty disputes.

What the Magnuson-Moss Act Requires

In passing the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, Congress specified a number of requirements that warrantors must meet. Congress also directed the FTC to adopt rules to cover other requirements. The FTC adopted three Rules under the Act, the Rule on Disclosure of Written Consumer Product Warranty Terms and Conditions (the Disclosure Rule), the Rule on Pre-Sale Availability of Written Warranty Terms (the Pre-Sale Availability Rule), and the Rule on Informal Dispute Settlement Procedures (the Dispute Resolution Rule). In addition, the FTC has issued an interpretive rule that clarifies certain terms and explains some of the provisions of the Act. This section summarizes all the requirements under the Act and the Rules.

The Act and the Rules establish three basic requirements that may apply to you, either as a warrantor or a seller.

As a warrantor, you must designate, or title, your written warranty as either "full" or "limited."
As a warrantor, you must state certain specified information about the coverage of your warranty in a single, clear, and easy-to-read document.
As a warrantor or a seller, you must ensure that warranties are available where your warranted consumer products are sold so that consumers can read them before buying.


The titling requirement, established by the Act, applies to all written warranties on consumer products costing more than $10. However, the disclosure and pre-sale availability requirements, established by FTC Rules, apply to all written warranties on consumer products costing more than $15. Each of these three general requirements is explained in greater detail in the following chapters.

What the Magnuson-Moss Act Does Not Allow

There are three prohibitions under the Magnuson-Moss Act. They involve implied warranties, so-called "tie-in sales" provisions, and deceptive or misleading warranty terms.

Disclaimer or Modification of Implied Warranties

The Act prohibits anyone who offers a written warranty from disclaiming or modifying implied warranties. This means that no matter how broad or narrow your written warranty is, your customers always will receive the basic protection of the implied warranty of merchantability.

There is one permissible modification of implied warranties, however. If you offer a "limited" written warranty, the law allows you to include a provision that restricts the duration of implied warranties to the duration of your limited warranty. For example, if you offer a two-year limited warranty, you can limit implied warranties to two years. However, if you offer a "full" written warranty, you cannot limit the duration of implied warranties.

If you sell a consumer product with a written warranty from the product manufacturer, but you do not warrant the product in writing, you can disclaim your implied warranties. (These are the implied warranties under which the seller, not the manufacturer, would otherwise be responsible.) But, regardless of whether you warrant the products you sell, as a seller, you must give your customers copies of any written warranties from product manufacturers.

"Tie-In Sales" Provisions

Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. The following are examples of prohibited tie-in sales provisions.

In order to keep your new Plenum Brand Vacuum Cleaner warranty in effect, you must use genuine Plenum Brand Filter Bags. Failure to have scheduled maintenance performed, at your expense, by the Great American Maintenance Company, Inc., voids this warranty.

While you cannot use a tie-in sales provision, your warranty need not cover use of replacement parts, repairs, or maintenance that is inappropriate for your product. The following is an example of a permissible provision that excludes coverage of such things.

While necessary maintenance or repairs on your AudioMundo Stereo System can be performed by any company, we recommend that you use only authorized AudioMundo dealers. Improper or incorrectly performed maintenance or repair voids this warranty.

Although tie-in sales provisions generally are not allowed, you can include such a provision in your warranty if you can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the FTC that your product will not work properly without a specified item or service. If you believe that this is the case, you should contact the warranty staff of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection for information on how to apply for a waiver of the tie-in sales prohibition.

Deceptive Warranty Terms

Obviously, warranties must not contain deceptive or misleading terms. You cannot offer a warranty that appears to provide coverage but, in fact, provides none. For example, a warranty covering only "moving parts" on an electronic product that has no moving parts would be deceptive and unlawful. Similarly, a warranty that promised service that the warrantor had no intention of providing or could not provide would be deceptive and unlawful.

How the Magnuson Moss Act May Affect Warranty Disputes

Two other features of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act are also important to warrantors. First, the Act makes it easier for consumers to take an unresolved warranty problem to court. Second, it encourages companies to use a less formal, and therefore less costly, alternative to legal proceedings. Such alternatives, known as dispute resolution mechanisms, often can be used to settle warranty complaints before they reach litigation.

Consumer Lawsuits

The Act makes it easier for purchasers to sue for breach of warranty by making breach of warranty a violation of federal law, and by allowing consumers to recover court costs and reasonable attorneys' fees. This means that if you lose a lawsuit for breach of either a written or an implied warranty, you may have to pay the customer's costs for bringing the suit, including lawyer's fees.

Because of the stringent federal jurisdictional requirements under the Act, most Magnuson-Moss lawsuits are brought in state court. However, major cases involving many consumers can be brought in federal court as class action suits under the Act.

Although the consumer lawsuit provisions may have little effect on your warranty or your business, they are important to remember if you are involved in warranty disputes.

Alternatives to Consumer Lawsuits

Although the Act makes consumer lawsuits for breach of warranty easier to bring, its goal is not to promote more warranty litigation. On the contrary, the Act encourages companies to use informal dispute resolution mechanisms to settle warranty disputes with their customers. Basically, an informal dispute resolution mechanism is a system that works to resolve warranty problems that are at a stalemate. Such a mechanism may be run by an impartial third party, such as the Better Business Bureau, or by company employees whose only job is to administer the informal dispute resolution system. The impartial third party uses conciliation, mediation, or arbitration to settle warranty disputes.

The Act allows warranties to include a provision that requires customers to try to resolve warranty disputes by means of the informal dispute resolution mechanism before going to court. (This provision applies only to cases based upon the Magnuson-Moss Act.) If you include such a requirement in your warranty, your dispute resolution mechanism must meet the requirements stated in the FTC's Rule on Informal Dispute Settlement Procedures (the Dispute Resolution Rule). Briefly, the Rule requires that a mechanism must:

Be adequately funded and staffed to resolve all disputes quickly;
Be available free of charge to consumers; Be able to settle disputes independently, without influence from the parties involved; Follow written procedures; Inform both parties when it receives notice of a dispute;
Gather, investigate, and organize all information necessary to decide each dispute fairly and quickly; Provide each party an opportunity to present its side, to submit supporting materials, and to rebut points made by the other party; (the mechanism may allow oral presentations, but only if both parties agree); Inform both parties of the decision and the reasons supporting it within 40 days of receiving notice of a dispute; Issue decisions that are not binding; either party must be free to take the dispute to court if dissatisfied with the decision (however, companies may, and often do, agree to be bound by the decision); Keep complete records on all disputes; and
Be audited annually for compliance with the Rule.

It is clear from these standards that informal dispute resolution mechanisms under the Dispute Resolution Rule are not "informal" in the sense of being unstructured. Rather, they are informal because they do not involve the technical rules of evidence, procedure, and precedents that a court of law must use.

Currently, the FTC's staff is evaluating the Dispute Resolution Rule to determine if informal dispute resolution mechanisms can be made simpler and easier to use. To obtain more information about this review, contact the FTC's warranty staff.

As stated previously, you do not have to comply with the Dispute Resolution Rule if you do not require consumers to use a mechanism before bringing suit under the Magnuson-Moss Act. You may want to consider establishing a mechanism that will make settling warranty disputes easier, even though it may not meet the standards of the Dispute Resolution Rule.

You can view a slightly more detailed legal explanation of the Magnuson - Moss Warranty act of 1975 by clicking on the following link: http://www.pipelin[/url] e.com/~rmantis/webdoc14.htm

Sources of the above information include:

Superchips Inc. Newsletter / Car Craft September 1994 issue.
Federal Trade Commission Website.
State Bar of Texas Website (texasbarcle.com)
 
I think the warranty states that you cannot modify anything in the engine. Also I had cold air intake installed on my car for few months but then I put the stock one back and i like like this much better, the car is quiet and the very minor acceleration difference (if there is any) is not worth of having a loud car.

JaredLS said:
Wait, why would a cold air intake cause a void of warranty? u guys mean if the filter came apart on the inside?
damn. if this turns out to be that I'm going back to stock asap.
 
Im with Ken on this one IT is ILLEGAL to not warranty something because you add aftermarket parts They just dont have to warranty your INTAKE !!!! My Mother and Father Faught Ford On This one too.....They had a 99 Mustang GT Auto....It was rear ended and instead of buying new factory exhaust they purchased a BORLA Catback.....Then the tranny started acting up REVERSE SLAM!!!! and The dealership said VOID WARRANTY DUE TO AFTERMARKET EXHAUST!!! Well Me Dad call down there and Told them to fix it or his lawyer will be getting involved because It is against the law to do this!!!!! They waited about 2 days and they they had to replace the tranny becase it was broke!! STEALERSHIP Tried me too.....They told me I voided my warranty because of NOS installed on car......I pulled the mannager of the dealership out and showed him 1 there was no bottles in the car OR a LINE from the back to the front....2 there was no nozzel installed in the intake OR a HOLE FOR ONE!!!! 3 they needed to prove that my Nitrous was hooked up and I pulled the wires out from under the cowl and he said SORRY its still voided I said No Problem I will Call The State and tell them that you will not fix my car because you believe that I voided it and I left.....2 days later they called me back and said they would take care of it...... LOL You just need to stand up for your self and remain CALM!!! dont be a baby and leave that what they want....Dont be an EXTREME DICK because that wont help you out either.....GOOD LUCK!!! Keep Up With it and Let us Know
 
You need to be extremely careful when you start spewing Magnuson Moss. For all intents and purposes it's a pipe dream. It is more intended to deal with things like spark plugs, filters, etc that do not increase factory performance levels. If you add a CAI, exhaust, chip, etc that increases the performance levels set from the factory, you have now modified said vehicle to a different level than as delivered and they CAN and WILL void your warranty and refuse claims if they so choose. You will lose that argument if you pursue it and Ford fights it.

Let's say you make a widget that is designed to hold 1 gallon of fluid. All of your engineering and testing is done based on this capacity. After extensive testing and research, you find that the unit is perfectly safe and operates as designed holding this 1 gallon of fluid so you take it to market and sell the crap out of it because it is truly a remarkable widget and everyone wants one! Then somebody comes along and discovers that with a little work, money, and innovation they can make it hold 2 gallons of fluid and it truly is a remarkable widget in this form! Everybody wants in on the bandwagon because they all know that a widget that holds 2 gallons of fluid is truly better than one that just holds 1 gallon! But low and behold the 2 gallon widgets start to fail! The materials used to manufacture the widget was never designed to hold 2 gallons of fluid. So they start sending the widgets back to you to be warrantied and replaced for free. Are you obligated and responsible for replacement? NO!!! You never designed the widget to hold 2 gallons of fluid nor did you ever manufacture one that way and deliver it!!

Long story short...(too late)...if you increase the performance output of your car, it is no longer "as delivered" and Ford (or any manufacturer) has the right (and rightfully so) to deny your claim.

Bottom line...you play you pay.
 
2001LS8Sport said:
Long story short...(too late)...if you increase the performance output of your car, it is no longer "as delivered" and Ford (or any manufacturer) has the right (and rightfully so) to deny your claim.

Bottom line...you play you pay.
as has been said the aftermarket part has to have caused the problem

for example, if you installed a wet NOS that blew you intake up the warranty was void, if you modified the rev limiter and it came apart you voided the warranty,

if you increaed the HP output to the point the Caps Failed or the rods failed etc, then you would have voided the warranty.

But it IS on the dealer to prove you caused the failure, it is NOT on you, the consumer to prove you did not.
 

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