James Cameron to announce Jesus tomb discovery...

Calabrio

Calabrio

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February 23, 2007 6:55
Jesus: Tales from the Crypt


Brace yourself. James Cameron, the man who brought you 'The Titanic' is back with another blockbuster. This time, the ship he's sinking is Christianity.

In a new documentary, Producer Cameron and his director, Simcha Jacobovici, make the starting claim that Jesus wasn't resurrected --the cornerstone of Christian faith-- and that his burial cave was discovered near Jerusalem. And, get this, Jesus sired a son with Mary Magdelene.

No, it's not a re-make of "The Da Vinci Codes'. It's supposed to be true.

Let's go back 27 years, when Israeli construction workers were gouging out the foundations for a new building in the industrial park in the Talpiyot, a Jerusalem suburb. of Jerusalem. The earth gave way, revealing a 2,000 year old cave with 10 stone caskets. Archologists were summoned, and the stone caskets carted away for examination. It took 20 years for experts to decipher the names on the ten tombs. They were: Jesua, son of Joseph, Mary, Mary, Mathew, Jofa and Judah, son of Jesua.
Israel's prominent archeologist Professor Amos Kloner didn't associate the crypt with the New Testament Jesus. His father, after all, was a humble carpenter who couldn't afford a luxury crypt for his family. And all were common Jewish names.

There was also this little inconvenience that a few miles away, in the old city of Jerusalem, Christians for centuries had been worshipping the empty tomb of Christ at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. Christ's resurrection, after all, is the main foundation of the faith, proof that a boy born to a carpenter's wife in a manger is the Son of God.

But film-makers Cameron and Jacobovici claim to have amassed evidence through DNA tests, archeological evidence and Biblical studies, that the 10 coffins belong to Jesus and his family.

Ever the showman, (Why does this remind me of the impresario in another movie,"King Kong", whose hubris blinds him to the dangers of an angry and very large ape?) Cameron is holding a New York press conference on Monday at which he will reveal three coffins, supposedly those of Jesus of Nazareth, his mother Mary and Mary Magdalene. News about the film, which will be shown soon on Discovery Channel, Britain's Channel 4, Canada's Vision, and Israel's Channel 8, has been a hot blog topic in the Middle East (check out a personal favorite: Israelity Bites) Here in the Holy Land, Biblical Archeology is a dangerous profession. This 90-minute documentary is bound to outrage Christians and stir up a titanic debate between believers and skeptics. Stay tuned.

--Tim McGirk/Jerusalem
http://time-blog.com/middle_east/
 
The DNA Tests will be :bsflag: :bsflag: :bsflag: James Cameron is full of BS!!!!
 
I would normally be very quick to dismiss the validity of this, but... I saw the last production these two men made. "The Exodus" was extremely well done, informative, and interesting. So much so, I bought a copy of their documentary for my father this christmas.

No matter what, this should prove to be very interesting, controversial, and historic.
 
Calabrio said:
I would normally be very quick to dismiss the validity of this, but... I saw the last production these two men made. "The Exodus" was extremely well done, informative, and interesting. So much so, I bought a copy of their documentary for my father this christmas.

No matter what, this should prove to be very interesting, controversial, and historic.
Click to expand...
I will have to look at the Exodus, But this is entirely different and I don't believe that the DNA tests Will be able to prove it will be Jesus!!!
 
This is a HUGE crock of BS, and as you know, I no longer subscribe to the belief in god. Cameron is just another in a long line of people (including the Church) who want to exploit any story about Jesus to make $$$$.

Why this should be dismissed if you are a Christian?

1) For there to be ANY bones at all, this has to mean that Jesus was never resurrected from the dead. So the whole cornerstone of Christianity must be tossed out the window. There are passages in the bible that say the whole body was resurrected and not just the "spirit". People also saw Christ after he died and Thomas touched his flesh and wounds. If merely a spirit was resurrected, Thomas wouldn't have been able to touch him. Don't ask for the passages..I don't remember where they are. Ask Fossten. He's knows his $hit about this.

2) At the time of Jesus, the name "Jesus" was the 4th most popular name given to men. "Mary" was the most popular name for women. There is a strong likelihood that there were more than one couple named Jesus and Mary. Guess what else? Joseph and Mathew were also some of the most popular names of the time. Just like any other culture, there are many families of the dsame culture with similar names. (eg. Many Italians named "Tony", "Joe", "Gino", etc..)

3) You'd have to accept that Jesus was married and fathered a son.

4) Jerusalem was NOT the hometown of Jesus and his family. At the time of his crucifixion, Jesus' family was in town for a "feast". They hadn't traveled to Jerusalem specifically to watch Jesus' execution...since they weren't aware it was going to happen as it did. (Well I suppose Jesus did, since he knew what would happen with his life, but I'm sure he didn't tell his family about it) Since this wasn't their hometown, it would be VERY odd for them to have a tomb in Jerusalem. Not to mention they weren't overly wealthy to have a tomb made for them.

5) DNA evidence will prove nothing. Upwards of 98% of the DNA would match any person from that era. It would also match a great portion of people alive today. The only one who it would match completely is the family themselves. If in fact the DNA from the tomb matches each other, it proves nothing except the people in the tomb are related. There is no way to tell from DNA that this is Jesus Christ since we have no reliable marker to compare it to. This DNA test would fail in a court of law.

There's more I could put up here, but you get the idea. To convince a Christian, they'd sure have to have an enourmous leap of faith.

James Cameron=PT Barnum
 
I still think the whole thing is BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
As more information regarding this subject is publicized, it certainly makes Cameron and Simcha Jacobovici look like they are exploiting this.

I did think the Exodus movie they did was interesting. But, learning that this is an old tomb, previously discovered, and this claim previously made... I doubt I'll be setting the TiVo or VCR.
 
Bozell Column: What Bones of Jesus?
Posted by Brent Bozell on February 27, 2007 - 23:23.

The press releases of the Discovery Channel boast that its parent company, Discovery Communications, is the “number one nonfiction media company.” That identifier is now in shambles, and the paper it’s printed on fit only to be crumpled and thrown away. The folks at Discovery have rendered themselves carnival barkers peddling sensationalistic garbage, trashy money-making gimmicks dressed up as real journalism.

The Discovery Channel is hyping to the heavens its new documentary on “The Lost Tomb of Jesus.” James Cameron, the Oscar-winning director of “Titanic,” has joined filmmaker Simcha Jacobovici in publicizing claims that a 2,000-year-old tomb containing 10 boxes of bones belonged to the family of Jesus of Nazareth. It also echoes the dopey “DaVinci Code” novel by asserting that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene, that the couple had a son. They claim the son was named Judah and that all three were buried together.

So much for the Resurrection. So much for the Bible. So much for the divinity of Christ. So much for Christianity. It’s all a fraud – if one is to believe the non-fiction of the Discovery Channel.

Other than a syrupy boost – an embarrassingly syrupy boost -- from an “exclusive” appearance on NBC’s “Today” show, the national media for once aren’t buying into this cheap publicity stunt and have found a load of skeptics to denounce the film, perhaps because the list of experts, both scientific and religious, is endless. Perhaps the most important debunker is the professor Amos Kloner, who oversaw the original archaeological dig of this tomb in 1980. "It makes a great story for a TV film," Kloner told the Jerusalem Post. "But it's completely impossible. It's nonsense."

Joe Zias, who was the curator for anthropology and archeology at the Rockefeller Museum in Jerusalem from 1972 to 1997 and personally numbered the ossuaries at the center of the film, was even harsher. "Simcha has no credibility whatsoever...He's pimping off the Bible...Projects like these make a mockery of the archeological profession."

Hebrew University archeologist and epigraphist Leah DiSegni said that the names found in the tomb, Mary, Joseph, and Jesus were among the most common names of the day. It would be like finding a tomb with the name George on it in the future and asserting that it must have been the tomb of President George Bush, DiSegni told the Cybercast News Service. In addition, biblical scholar Stephen Pfann has questioned even the actual inscription on the tomb, claiming it’s “scratchy” and hard to read. For all we know, it’s Johnny, Mabel and Jerry.

How do the producers defend themselves against the avalanche of criticism? It’s so, so typical. On the “Today” show Jacobovici and Cameron the “Titanic” director finally were pressed to respond to critics like Zias. They quickly fell back on the laughable concept that they weren’t – surprise! – experts. Both said they weren’t archaeologists. One insisted he was filmmaker, the other a journalist. Cameron found it “compelling” as a layman.

In other words, neither has credibility, and neither does the non-fiction Discovery Channel.

When it comes to ancient Christian sites, the Discovery Channel already had a huge credibility problem on its hands. Discovery aired a 2002 special on the alleged “Ossuary of James,” which was declared a forgery in 2003 by the Israel Antiquities Authority. Its promoter, Oded Golan, is currently on trial for forging part of the inscription. Jacobovici produced that badly flawed documentary, too.

The Discovery Channel, like most of the national TV elite, display a dramatic bias in target selection when it comes to religion. There are no controversies over the historical claims of Islam, Judaism, or any other religious faith. But Christianity is another story. It is routinely the subject of sensationalistic TV exposes, complete with breathless claims about how Jesus “might be” the son of a Roman soldier, or he might have survived the Crucifixion. And now he’s a dad, with kids.

What’s worse is that these shoddy alleged exposes always air in the most sacred Christian seasons, like Lent. Last year during Lent, on April 2, 2006, “Dateline NBC” offered part of its show to alleged Jesus-debunker Michael Baigent, even as reporter Sara James declared: “Baigent acknowledges there’s no proof of his theory, but points out that it was possible to survive crucifixion.”

If the Discovery Channel fails to cancel this slanderous ‘documentary,’ it will have to explain why it is intentionally misleading the public. This network should be embarrassed by this plunge into sensational speculation masquerading as ‘science.’ To slander Christianity at the start of the Lenten season is unconscionable. This isn’t news. It’s sensationalism on a stick. Or in this case, on a cross.
 
Let me preface this by making the following assertions:

1.) I am a Christian
2.) I do believe that Jesus is the Son of God, sent to save humankind from their sins by dying on the cross and rising on the third day.

That being said, I have found the implications behind both this and "The DaVinci Code" to be quite fascinating to consider.

The reason being: There's little Biblical evidence against most - if not all - of the claims made in The Da Vinci Code, and by James Cameron here.

There's a lot that I'd like to go into covering most of the bases in each field, but I'm saving it for a blog post after I actually see this documentary.

One thing I would like to address is here:

RRocket said:
1) For there to be ANY bones at all, this has to mean that Jesus was never resurrected from the dead. So the whole cornerstone of Christianity must be tossed out the window. There are passages in the bible that say the whole body was resurrected and not just the "spirit". People also saw Christ after he died and Thomas touched his flesh and wounds. If merely a spirit was resurrected, Thomas wouldn't have been able to touch him. Don't ask for the passages..I don't remember where they are. Ask Fossten. He's knows his $hit about this.
Click to expand...

This is not correct at all. In the hypothetical situation that this actually is Jesus' Christ's body found, it is relatively easy to still believe that Jesus died on the cross and rose again. It just means he died again later.

The only part of the Bible - which is hardly at all a "cornerstone of Christianity" - that you would have to get around is his Ascension into heaven. Even that can be explained with a little creative thinking, but I won't go into it here.

RRocket said:
5) DNA evidence will prove nothing. Upwards of 98% of the DNA would match any person from that era. It would also match a great portion of people alive today. The only one who it would match completely is the family themselves. If in fact the DNA from the tomb matches each other, it proves nothing except the people in the tomb are related. There is no way to tell from DNA that this is Jesus Christ since we have no reliable marker to compare it to. This DNA test would fail in a court of law.
Click to expand...

I would like to state my agreement, and re-enforcement of this item. DNA evidence (as well as any other evidence) only tells as much and is reliable as the evidence that corroborates it.

Here we have several bodies in a grave, each labeled with a name and some with a parent's name. The names written designate the bodies as being one "Jesua, son of Joseph", two "Mary"s, a "Mathew", a "Jofa", and one "Judah, son of Jesua". Without DNA, we can only guess that the label on Judah's grave is referring to the same Jesua that is buried here and that the rest of the people in this grave are somehow related by blood or close friendship to each other.

However, we do not know who this "Joseph" is, nor do we even know the source of the writings that label these graves. While we may be able to determine how old the writings are, there is nothing (unless it is to be revealed in the documentary video) to corroborate these names as describing the actual people in Jesus' life. And still, there has yet to be presented (again, pending any revelations in the film) any documentation that authenticates the names that are on those tombs as actually belonging to the people that are buried in them!

Further, while DNA evidence may prove that Jesua is in fact the child of one of the Marys, and that Judah is the child of Jesua and Mary, that is all it tells us! There is still yet to be shown any definitive evidence to link any of these people to their Biblical counterparts other than by name.

In the end, Mr. Cameron will be very hard-pressed to definitively prove that these people are who he claims them to be. And after that, he will still likely have a hard time proving that Christ did not in fact live his life as it was described in the Bible. Again, the only inaccuracy that is truly left to speculate over is whether or not (or how - bodily or spiritually - and when) Jesus did ascend into heaven after his post-resurrection interactions with the disciples.
 
Let's all not forget (and for you Bible illiterates, let's all learn for the first time) that the owner of the tomb as spelled out in the Gospels was one Joseph of Arimathea. It is very possible that he and his family were buried in his own tomb, especially since it wasn't occupied for more than three days.
 
Another thing to note,
The Roman empire was desperate to find a way to disprove Jesus and Christianity. Had there been a convenient, neatly presented tomb sitting outside of town, and the guy had lived a full life fathering children, don't you think they might have recorded this?

The Roman empire wasn't suffering any lack of resources .
 
Ted Olsen of Christianity Today interviews James Cameron

An Exclusive Interview with James Cameron
"I think you have the wrong guy!" he admits.
Interview by Ted Olsen | posted 2/27/2007 01:12PM


James Cameron is the producer of "The Lost Tomb of Jesus," a Discovery Channel documentary that claims a tomb outside Jerusalem once held the remains of Jesus, Mary Magdalene, a "son of Jesus," and family members. We reached him at his home in Redding, California.


So, tell us about your interest in the historical Jesus.

Um, I guess I'm interested in Jesus, yeah. Where did you say you were from, again?

Christianity Today magazine.

Are you selling subscriptions or something?

No, we want to talk about your documentary.

What?

The one about Jesus' tomb.

Um, yeah, I think you have the wrong guy. I think you want the other James Cameron.

You're not James Cameron?

No, I am, but not …

… And your wife's name is Suzy?

Susanna.

Right. We found your number online. We figured the chances of you not being the filmmaker James Cameron are, like, a jillion to one. And you live in California, so that pretty much clinches it.

We're in Redding. Do you know where Redding is? It's, like, 500 miles from …

Let's get back on topic. What's your response to the criticism that no actual New Testament scholar supports your thesis?

Okay. We're done here. Don't call me ever again.

In the tie-in book, you say that "some of the most respected experts in biblical history and archaeology have contributed to this investigation." Could you name one who actually supports the argument that this is "the greatest archaeological story ever"? Just one? Hello? Mr. Cameron?

Ted Olsen is the former solicitor general of the United States.
 
Calabrio said:
Another thing to note,
The Roman empire was desperate to find a way to disprove Jesus and Christianity. Had there been a convenient, neatly presented tomb sitting outside of town, and the guy had lived a full life fathering children, don't you think they might have recorded this?

The Roman empire wasn't suffering any lack of resources .
Click to expand...

Not so sure about that one... historically the Roman Empire allowed it's conquered nations/people to keep their own traditions and religions; as long as they were subservient to Roman law first.
 
95DevilleNS said:
Not so sure about that one... historically the Roman Empire allowed it's conquered nations/people to keep their own traditions and religions; as long as they were subservient to Roman law first.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree with your statement.
 
Not so.

Initially that was the case, the Romans simply ignored the growing Christian populations. But Christianity expanded even more quickly than it otherwise might have, had it not been for the roads throughout the continent built by the Romans. Christianity quickly made it's way into Europe, gaining support among the poor and the soldiers.

The spreading, growing Christian populations refused to worship the Emperor as a God in defiance of the law. This led to many of them being tortured and burned. Every hear the stories of defiant Christians being thrown to the lions for entertainment? There's even a story of 600 Christians set on fire above the Colosseum to light the stadium.

So the Christians were blamed for problems in the city, Nero blamed them for the fires in Rome, and eventually they were driven underground.

It wasn't until Constantine at the beginning of the 4th century that Christians were allowed to practice their religion throughout the Empire freely.
 
Calabrio said:
Not so.

Initially that was the case, the Romans simply ignored the growing Christian populations. But Christianity expanded even more quickly than it otherwise might have, had it not been for the roads throughout the continent built by the Romans. Christianity quickly made it's way into Europe, gaining support among the poor and the soldiers.

The spreading, growing Christian populations refused to worship the Emperor as a God in defiance of the law. This led to many of them being tortured and burned. Every hear the stories of defiant Christians being thrown to the lions for entertainment? There's even a story of 600 Christians set on fire above the Colosseum to light the stadium.

So the Christians were blamed for problems in the city, Nero blamed them for the fires in Rome, and eventually they were driven underground.

It wasn't until Constantine at the beginning of the 4th century that Christians were allowed to practice their religion throughout the Empire freely.
Click to expand...

If you look closely into Roman history, much of that is said to be greatly exaggerated, it's true that Christians did suffer many blows at the hands of Roman Empire, but it greatly depended on which emperor was in power, Tiberius is one of the most notable for having a great dislike of Christians. But the stories of defenseless Christians being throw to the lions in mass is mostly B.S.

E.g. Some accounts do indeed have Nero using Christians as a scapegoat for the fires; then again some accounts show that Nero was the arsonist himself and danced while playing the lyre in utter glee as the fires raged while others show that despite being a lunatic, he cared greatly for his city and personally financed a rescue operation himself.
 
95DevilleNS said:
But the stories of defenseless Christians being throw to the lions in mass is mostly B.S.
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You need to read Foxe's Book of Martyrs and Martyrs of the Catacombs. Then you would know how incorrect that statement was.
 
ok.. Someone explain something to me...

They have all this DNA "evidence" that says these are the bones of Jesus. Fair enough.

My question is, how do they know this? What control DNA sample did they match this DNA to? Last I checked, the technology for DNA mapping was not available in those times. Is there a DNA sample that is CONFIRMED to have come from Jesus?
 
Frogman said:
ok.. Someone explain something to me...

They have all this DNA "evidence" that says these are the bones of Jesus. Fair enough.

My question is, how do they know this? What control DNA sample did they match this DNA to? Last I checked, the technology for DNA mapping was not available in those times. Is there a DNA sample that is CONFIRMED to have come from Jesus?
Click to expand...

EXACTLY.
 
I've also heard that the so-called "Jesus" casket was empty...
 
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