John Roberts and SCOTUS comes through in a big way

fossten

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International Law, and Order

[from The Wall Street Journal]

March 26, 2008; Page A14

Everyone waxing outraged about the big Medellín decision yesterday is focusing on the death penalty, but the Supreme Court did something else entirely: It insulated American law from the international variety. And this modest and limited ruling should help restore those two qualities to U.S. courts, which is no doubt one of the reasons the Roberts Court's political opponents are so livid.

Though the case became a global cause célèbre, its sordid origins trace to 1993, when José Medellín, a Mexican national, murdered two Houston teenagers. He was sentenced to death by a Texas jury, but his lawyers argued on appeal that he hadn't had access to Mexico's consulate before he confessed to his crimes.

This was a violation of the 1963 Vienna Convention, which holds that diplomats are supposed to be notified when their nationals are arrested. In response, the U.S. government took steps to ensure states better comply in the future, both to fulfill its treaty obligations and serve the reciprocal interests of U.S. citizens detained abroad.

But Mexican authorities made the case a referendum on capital punishment and international legal norms, ultimately suing the U.S. in the International Court of Justice at The Hague. The ICJ ruled in Mexico's favor, ordering states to give Medellín and some 51 other nationals new hearings. The question before the Supreme Court was whether such international dictates must be enforced by sovereign state courts. An affirmative answer might have gone a long way toward validating the expansive claims of liberal legal theorists that U.S. courts take instruction from the U.N., among other moral oases.

Chief Justice John Roberts, writing for the 6-3 majority, ruled that the ICJ finding was not binding because the Vienna Convention is an understanding between governments, a diplomatic compact. It was never intended to automatically create new individual rights enforceable domestically by international bodies. Texas's violation was of diplomatic protocols, and calls for a diplomatic remedy.

Treaty obligations, in other words, do not necessarily take on the force of law domestically. Rather, Congress must enact legislation for whatever provisions -- such as consular notification -- that it wants to make the formal law of the land. This distinction matters because it establishes a fire wall between international and domestic law. It also protects the core American Constitutional principles of federalism and the separation of powers. As Justice Roberts points out, the courts must leave to the political branches "the primary role in deciding when and how international agreements will be enforced."

Medellín v. Texas also swatted away a claim of Presidential power. While the Bush Administration did not agree with Mexico's choice of venue, or the intrusion on U.S. sovereignty, it attempted to allay the diplomatic ruckus by directing states to comply with the ICJ ruling in a 2005 executive order. The Court ruled that the President's power, too, was limited by the Constitution. The authority to make treaty commitments did not extend to unilaterally asserting new state responsibilities or legal duties. Again, the executive could only make new laws in conjunction with the legislature.

Devotees of using foreign law to overrule American politicians will squawk. But the Medellín majority has delivered a victory for legal modesty and the U.S. Constitution.
 
THAT is why it is critical for the Republicans to get to pick the next SCOTUS's.

With 20% of the disaffected Dems (the ones who don't get their nominee) going to vote for McCain, I am hoping for a pickup in the House and Senate.
 
Um- are you aware it was GW they ruled against?

That's an extremely narrow view, if that is all you see...
There is much more to it then that, as spelled out in the article; thr ruling against Bush is a very minor thing in comparison to the whole picture
 
That's an extremely narrow view, if that is all you see...
There is much more to it then that, as spelled out in the article; thr ruling against Bush is a very minor thing in comparison to the whole picture
But it is mentionable, and acknowledgeable. Look, conservatives who voted for Bush can and will be intellectually honest in acknowledging when he's wrong about something; that's what separates us from liberals.

Bush has been wrong about many things, namely Shamnesty, the DC Gun Ban case, and this case, just to name a few. He's also wrong to handcuff our soldiers while decrying Islamofascism and at the same time kissing up to Saudi Arabia. His energy bill was a disaster of pork-laden monstrosity and notably banned the light bulb.

So yeah, Bush has been wrong many times.

So what, Joey?
 
Great ruling! Finally, we have some justices that understand the United States is a sovereign nation that doesn't have to kowtow to international law.
 
Treaty obligations, in other words, do not necessarily take on the force of law domestically. Rather, Congress must enact legislation for whatever provisions -- such as consular notification -- that it wants to make the formal law of the land.

Show us were the Constitution says that?
 
Show us were the Constitution says that?
Actually, the very absence of any language stating that we are subject to foreign law means that we are not.

Please show me in the Constitution where it says that we have to obey the laws of other countries.
 
Well, it isnt about obeying the laws of other countries. Its about giving our federal government the ability to negotiate treaties with other countries.

Now, one state can choose to follow the treaty and the next state wont. In return, Mexico will likely punish american citizens from ALL states and no longer grant them the same courtesy.

So, when one of our citizens is denied access to our consulate - remember this decision.

Great ruling! Finally, we have some justices that understand the United States is a sovereign nation that doesn't have to kowtow to international law.



The United States MADE the agreement (treaty) - where do you people get the idea that we were forced to do anything? We agreed by treaty to do things.

The whole decision is that the individual states do not have to abide by the treaty now f they choose not to. Only the Federal Government has to.
 
...all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land.

--U. S. Constitution
 
Show us were the Constitution says that?

He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

Article II, Section II.

Yes, it is the law of the land so long as it has been approved by the Senate.
 
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He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

Article II, Section II.

Yes, it is the law of the land so long as it has been approved by the Senate.
Did two thirds of the Senators concur with the treaty in question?
 
Did two thirds of the Senators concur with the treaty in question?

You guys seem to be missing the point of this. It wasn't about weather the Treaty was or wasn't constitutonal. The article and the ruling never even humor the idea that the Treaty wasn't violated.

From the article:

Mexican authorities made the case a referendum on capital punishment and international legal norms, ultimately suing the U.S. in the International Court of Justice at The Hague. The ICJ ruled in Mexico's favor, ordering states to give Medellín and some 51 other nationals new hearings. The question before the Supreme Court was whether such international dictates must be enforced by sovereign state courts.

"International dictates" does not mean treaties. In this case, the "international dictates" being refered to is the issue of "international legal norms" in regards to capital punishment, as well as ICJ rulings over states and American courts. Capital punishment has nothing to do with the treaty on it's own, and only tagentally in this case. If the case of Medellin had been a treaty issue, it never would have gone to a state court; it would have gone directly to the federal court, as treaty issues are a federal matter and beyond the states jusrisdictions.

Also a part of this ruling was the issue of weather the International Court of Justice has any jurisdiction over state courts here in the united states, (or any courts for that matter). The constitution specifically sets up the justisdiction of the various courts and doesn't give any "international court" justisdiction over the states or the court system here. No Treaty can change that; only a constitutional amendment can change that legally (or activist judges illegally).

This ruling shows the obvious; that the ICJ has no jurisdiction over the United States. It has nothing to do with the treaty, but who can or cannot "enforce" the treaty.
 

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