Merry Christmas ALL

LOL ^ Happy Holidays to you and yours ... and of course all LVC'er here.
 

Wishing all of you the very best in 2017

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Joegr for all his top notch well informed knowledge and much appreciated contributions.








When do we do the "Airing of Grievances" ?​
 
Quote BigRig:

" When do we do the "Airing of Grievances" ? "

Really??? You know how that went last year... and you still have to ask??? :)

Please don't keep tempting me. Shouldn't be about the airing of grievances... but instead about forgivness.
 
04_Sport_LS said:
Quote BigRig:

" When do we do the "Airing of Grievances" ? "

Really??? You know how that went last year... and you still have to ask??? :)

Please don't keep tempting me. Shouldn't be about the airing of grievances... but instead about forgivness.
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I'd rather air the grievances as apposed to forgiving these Lincoln LS'es.



Frank: ... at the Festivus dinner you gather your family around and tell them all the ways they have disappointed you over the past year.
Kramer: And is there a tree?
Frank: No. Instead there's a pole. Requires no decoration. I find tinsel distracting.
 
I can forgive the LS. However... if I ever meet an engineer/designer for the cooling system on the LS,,, he's gonna get beotch slapped. Really??? Another 1-2 grand on the sticker price wouldn't have covered most of the cooling system components being made out of aluminum???

There BR... I "greived",,, are you happy now? :)
 
04_Sport_LS said:
I can forgive the LS. However... if I ever meet an engineer/designer for the cooling system on the LS,,, he's gonna get beotch slapped. Really??? Another 1-2 grand on the sticker price wouldn't have covered most of the cooling system components being made out of aluminum???

There BR... I "grieved",,, are you happy now? :)
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It's not about cost... It's about WEIGHT! Having had a chance to talk to the engineers I understand the compromises that MUST be made to meet gummint regulations. The reason the 1st gen starts in 2nd gear when using SST was to prevent the gas-guzzler tax. Starting in 2nd saved a whooping (IIRC) .3mpg. That's right 3/10 of a mile per. Do you really have any idea just how much plastic is used on engines? How about the intake manifold (on the V8)? ANYTHING that can be plastic will be in order to save weight. They dropped the "LS" on the rear door sills on the 2nd gen to save something like $4.35 per car (according to the VP of Marketing in the fall of 2003).

ANY engineer can design a "perfect" car. Just try it while meeting stupid gummint regs (CAFE, pedestrian safety, idiot-proof driving nannies, etc.).
 
^ how bout them full spares in the trunk! LOL Damn Sub and rear deck speakers had to go cuz it weighted too much. also LOL
 
RigsLS said:
^ how bout them full spares in the trunk! LOL Damn Sub and rear deck speakers had to go cuz it weighted too much. also LOL
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Both of mine came with the small (in width) spares. I bought a couple of full size rims and swapped the small ones out for full sized spares.
 
The wiper arm cowl seals, the coils that keep going bad and water in the trunk ... these are our "grievances" :mad:
 
As far as the additional weight of aluminum over plastic on the cooling system parts... I doubt the difference would be more than 25lbs. Much worth it considering the headaches we go through!!! Not that would have been able to pay $40k or $42k on a new LS anyway. Granted... some parts would still have been plastic,,, but our pain would have been less. Just replacing o-rings or a few separate hoses and clamps... instead of whole parts.

I don't mind the intake being plastic... but again, (under normal circumstances), it only takes gaskets to fix a leak there... not complete replacement.
 
04_Sport_LS said:
As far as the additional weight of aluminum over plastic on the cooling system parts... I doubt the difference would be more than 25lbs. Much worth it considering the headaches we go through!!!
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They don't really care about our headaches. They want Lincoln owners to take their cars in for all repairs. Checked the OM on how to replace a tail light? If not, check it out. Don't you think that since they took out the subs and associated electronics which saved all of 5 pounds that a 25# (5 times as much) savings would be HUGE? What's the weight difference between the space-saver and full size spares? Probably your 24 pounds. Remember, they are looking to save grams, not ounces!

It's like these stupid electric cars. They only make them to lower their CAFE. They sure don't make much, if any, money on them. Due to a discussion with some friends I "planned" out a trip between San Diego and San Antonio using a Tesla P90. It took almost twice as long (35 hours vs. 18 hours) and over 500 miles longer in order to follow their supercharging stations. IMHO, electric vehicles are great for putting around town but as a "family truckster" not so much. If I could afford a Griswold Family Truckster, Home Depot runner and around-town runabout I would have all three. As I (and I suspect many others) can't, I need a vehicle that can handle all our needs.

Off my soapbox.....
 
You're fine... stay on your soapbox. I have no problem with it. Been there a few times on this forum. But... you will still have a hard time convincing me,,, that Ford cut corners on the LS to save weight... instead of $$$. The LS was never cheap,,, and even though at the time there was a joint venture between Ford and Jaguar... they were still in competition with each other. In my mind,,, Ford cut costs in an attempt to undercut Jag sales on the same DEW98 platform. Of course,,, we all know how that worked out. Jag took Ford's money,,, and is still using the DEW98 platform to this day. Ford walked away... because Jag bled them dry.

So there is another grievance. You happy again BR??? :)
 
BR,

As far as the cowl seals. I lube mine twice a year, (spring and fall), to keep them "soft and supple". You may as well run with your coil covers off, (if you don't already), because obviously it doesn't make a difference if the cowl seals go bad. 100K miles on my aftermarket coils and plugs without the coil covers. I still say all the coil covers do... is make the engine look pretty,,, and trap heat... shrotening the life of the coils. Never had a problem with the 4.6 Merc in my sig,,, and those didn't have coil covers, (given... a different cowl setup too).

I can still try the water test on the coil boots if you are interested. I won't dump water directly on the coils or connectors,,, but I can check the boots to see if they seal well enough. Always been an issue with the cowl seals on the LS. When the water leaks into the engine compartment... it dripps onto the main coil wiring harness, (both/either side)... and migrates under the coil covers because of the wrap on the wiring.
 
04_Sport_LS said:
You're fine... stay on your soapbox. I have no problem with it. Been there a few times on this forum. But... you will still have a hard time convincing me,,, that Ford cut corners on the LS to save weight... instead of $$$. The LS was never cheap,,, and even though at the time there was a joint venture between Ford and Jaguar... they were still in competition with each other. In my mind,,, Ford cut costs in an attempt to undercut Jag sales on the same DEW98 platform. Of course,,, we all know how that worked out. Jag took Ford's money,,, and is still using the DEW98 platform to this day. Ford walked away... because Jag bled them dry.

So there is another grievance. You happy again BR??? :)
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Lincoln and Jaguar were never in real competition just as the T-Bird wasn't in competition with the LS. The Jag was for the staid, British type and the LS was for the BMW crowd. The LS was to go worldwide until Ford realized they would be competing with themselves; not a profitable position. The LS and S-Type never competed with each other anywhere other than the US. Even then, just as buyers didn't cross-shop the 5-Series and LS (like Lincoln wanted) they also didn't cross-shop the S-Type and LS. The LS and Jag share most of their suspension parts (notice Jaguar is stamped on some control arm parts). Jag didn't bleed Lincoln dry any more than did Land Rover, Volvo or Aston Martin. The LS was always expensive to build and the profit margin was minimal. Just because a supplier sent Lincoln a sub-standard part doesn't mean the engineering was faulty. The window regulators are a prime example. BMW have been using the design for years and years without any problems. Have a supplier use a cheap plastic and voilá. Lincoln gets the black eye. Once manufacturers started subbing-out the "small" parts instead of producing everything in-house problems started. Once control is lost no telling what kind of quality corners are cut.

Having access to the suits until mid-'04 was pretty priceless. I learned a TON about the industry and the compromises they have to make to answer to the gummint and bean-counters. Like why Lincoln now competes with Buick instead of Cadillac. I've seen a few of the new Continentals on the road. It's marginally larger than the MkZ and, IMHO, has absolutely no road presence. Lincoln doesn't manufacture driver's cars, they make the quintessential land yacht; albeit with enough gadgets to make 007 envious.

I'm definitely not a Lincoln sycophant. I just have a little knowledge of the industry and the LS is pretty much the only Lincoln I would ever buy. Once my wife's '06 goes (probably this year) I will no longer be in the Ford family; after 45 years.
 
Quote LS4:

" Lincoln doesn't manufacture driver's cars, they make the quintessential land yacht; albeit with enough gadgets to make 007 envious."

I'll agree with this. Lincoln was always know in the past for luxury and features. Same as Cadillac used to be also. With the advent of the CTS, (and with the version that was to compete against the LS... Cadillacc left lincoln in the dust as far as performance. Especially with the CTS-V. If I were a GM fan, (don't hate me people), I would probably own a CTS-V.

However... with some careful research on the internet,,, it became obvious, (despite what certain Ford executives will admit), Jag whined and cried that they wanted lead... and larger finances to develop the DEW98 platform. To the best of my understanding,,, Bill Ford gave approval... and when Jag bled Ford dry,,, this is partially what led to Bill Ford resigning. A good portion of why Ford ran into financial troubles back when GM and Chrysler were suffering financial woes,,, was Not for the same reason GM and Chrysler were also suffering.

Yes... Land Rover,,, and other besides Jag were to blame for much of Fords prolems at the time. But Land Rover, Jag... and others,,, all share similar heritage and ownership... plus parts too.... IIRC. If Bill Ford had stuck to his guns... Ford would have had lead on the LS,,, and Jag would have taken 2nd fiddle. Either way... Jag saw a good thing,,, and is STILL using the platform the LS was designed on. The Mustang,,, and possibly the Fusion... may have adopetd SOME of the LS platform,,, but neither were the full upgrade from what the LS was. While Jag has gone on to fully use the DEW98.

Not sure what plastic parts you are talking about that were faulty,,, but if they have anything to do with the suspension... then they were either made by ZF or Lemforder... or possibly subed to Beck/Arnley. So if this is true,,, then Jag may have ordered LS parts to a different spec than what the Jag got. Of course though... You will never hear anyone from Ford admit this possibility.
 
LS4me said:
... The window regulators are a prime example. BMW have been using the design for years and years without any problems. ...
Click to expand...

I partially disagree with this. My 2002 325i has now been through all four window regulators, one of those twice. I can't blame BMW for one of the replacements failing, as I didn't use BMW branded parts, but the original four are on them. A check of the BMW E46 forum indicates that window regulator failure is about as common for them as for the LS. In my case, I've actually had better luck with the LS regulators.

I would hope that BMW has since improved on the design or on the plastics used, just as I hope that is true for Ford/Lincoln. I had to replace all the regulators on my 94 Grand Marquis, more than once. From that, it does seem that Ford had already improved a good bit by the time they got to the LS.
 
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joegr said:
I partially disagree with this. My 2002 325i has now been through all four window regulators, one of those twice. I can't blame BMW for one of the replacements failing, as I didn't use BMW branded parts, but the original four are on them. A check of the BMW E46 forum indicates that window regulator failure is about as common for them as for the LS. In my case, I've actually had better luck with the LS regulators.

I would hope that BMW has since improved on the design or on the plastics used, just as I hope that is true for Ford/Lincoln. I had to replace all the regulators on my 04 Grand Marquis, more than once. From that, it does seem that Ford had already improved a good bit by the time they got to the LS.
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Thanks! I sit corrected.
 
Could stand instead .... you sat a lot at your last job.
 
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