More of the truth re: Katrina comes out.

MonsterMark

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Hey, what happened to the 10,000 dead Mayor Hagin?

And I love how the term Refugee has now be redirected to Evacuee. Nice.



Complete article here



The federal response to Katrina was not as portrayed

Sunday, September 11, 2005

It is settled wisdom among journalists that the federal response to the devastation wrought by Hurricane Katrina was unconscionably slow.

"Mr. Bush's performance last week will rank as one of the worst ever during a dire national emergency," wrote New York Times columnist Bob Herbert in a somewhat more strident expression of the conventional wisdom. But the conventional wisdom is the opposite of the truth.

Jason van Steenwyk is a Florida Army National Guardsman who has been mobilized six times for hurricane relief.

He notes that:

"The federal government pretty much met its standard time lines, but the volume of support provided during the 72-96 hour was unprecedented. The federal response here was faster than Hugo, faster than Andrew, faster than Iniki, faster than Francine and Jeanne."

For instance, it took five days for National Guard troops to arrive in strength on the scene in Homestead, Fla. after Hurricane Andrew hit in 2002. But after Katrina, there was a significant National Guard presence in the afflicted region in three.

Journalists who are long on opinions and short on knowledge have no idea what is involved in moving hundreds of tons of relief supplies into an area the size of England in which power lines are down, telecommunications are out, no gasoline is available, bridges are damaged, roads and airports are covered with debris, and apparently have little interest in finding out.

So they libel as a "national disgrace" the most monumental and successful disaster relief operation in world history.

I write this column a week and a day after the main levee protecting New Orleans breached. In the course of that week: More than 32,000 people have been rescued, many plucked from rooftops by Coast Guard helicopters.

The Army Corps of Engineers has all but repaired the breaches and begun pumping water out of New Orleans.

Shelter, food and medical care have been provided to more than 180,000 refugees.

Journalists complain that it took a whole week to do this. A former Air Force logistics officer had some words of advice for us in the Fourth Estate on his blog, Moltenthought: "We do not yet have teleporter or replicator technology like you saw on 'Star Trek' in college between hookah hits and waiting to pick up your worthless communications degree while the grown-ups actually engaged in the recovery effort were studying engineering.

"The United States military can wipe out the Taliban and the Iraqi Republican Guard far more swiftly than they can bring 3 million Swanson dinners to an underwater city through an area the size of Great Britain which has no power, no working ports or airports, and a devastated and impassable road network.

"You cannot speed recovery and relief efforts up by prepositioning assets (in the affected areas) since the assets are endangered by the very storm which destroyed the region. "No amount of yelling, crying and mustering of moral indignation will change any of the facts above." "You cannot just snap your fingers and make the military appear somewhere," van Steenwyk said.

Guardsmen need to receive mobilization orders; report to their armories; draw equipment; receive orders and convoy to the disaster area. Guardsmen driving down from Pennsylvania or Navy ships sailing from Norfolk can't be on the scene immediately.

Relief efforts must be planned. Other than prepositioning supplies near the area likely to be afflicted (which was done quite efficiently), this cannot be done until the hurricane has struck and a damage assessment can be made. There must be a route reconnaissance to determine if roads are open, and bridges along the way can bear the weight of heavily laden trucks.

And federal troops and Guardsmen from other states cannot be sent to a disaster area until their presence has been requested by the governors of the afflicted states.

Exhibit A on the bill of indictment of federal sluggishness is that it took four days before most people were evacuated from the Louisiana Superdome. The levee broke Tuesday morning. Buses had to be rounded up and driven from Houston to New Orleans across debris-strewn roads. The first ones arrived Wednesday evening. That seems pretty fast to me.

A better question -- which few journalists ask -- is why weren't the roughly 2,000 municipal and school buses in New Orleans utilized to take people out of the city before Katrina struck?

 
Actually sounds like more people with no idea of what's going on talking about other people with no idea of what's going on... It's all supposition and bluster except for the two statements that buses were there by Wednesday evening (and probably could have been there faster had the effort been coordinated properly) and there was a 'significant' national guard presence by three days after Katrina's land fall...which I don't agree with, but either way it seems like a long time since the Coast Guard was in there the next day!
 
raVeneyes said:
Actually sounds like more people with no idea of what's going on talking about other people with no idea of what's going on... It's all supposition and bluster except for the two statements that buses were there by Wednesday evening (and probably could have been there faster had the effort been coordinated properly) and there was a 'significant' national guard presence by three days after Katrina's land fall...which I don't agree with, but either way it seems like a long time since the Coast Guard was in there the next day!
Now you're the one guilty of tit for tat. The Coast Guard was doing what they always do. It's like comparing a trained emt with someone who has had a 4 hour class in first aid. Helicopter rescue is their bread and butter. And the detailed analysis of the situation seems like anything but "people with no idea of what's going on".
 
Bush Bashing

I work with a person who has directly admitted that if she stubs her toe in the middle of the night it will be blamed on Bush. She hates him that much. This is the same mentality as those who seem to be placing the blame for all of this mess on Bush's shoulders. If he had prestaged in the path of the storm, he would have been blamed for poor planning. If he had deployed without waiting to be asked for help, he would have been accused of usurping state and local powers. Come on people, if you are so much better than what we have and have all of the answers, run for office. In the mean time, give the man a break.
 
raVeneyes said:
Actually sounds like more people with no idea of what's going on talking about other people with no idea of what's going on... It's all supposition and bluster except for the two statements that buses were there by Wednesday evening (and probably could have been there faster had the effort been coordinated properly) and there was a 'significant' national guard presence by three days after Katrina's land fall...which I don't agree with, but either way it seems like a long time since the Coast Guard was in there the next day!

Actually the people who know the least about what's going on are people like you and me WHO WEREN'T THERE. It is ignorant to criticize these actions and events that you or I did not witness.

Funny how you'd take the media's word for it instead of the person who was actually in charge and involved. Who's drinking the Kool-Aid now?
 
If I may,
I believe the City is responsible for itself. City Governments across the nation have disaster recovery plans. Followed by the State and finally the Federal Gov't. From what I had seen from my dry and comfortable chair is, the city of New Orleans abandoned their own people. Followed by their State Gov't. Outside of the those who choose to stay, the rest didn't have the means to leave. Of all the under water school buses shown on TV, how many were used to evacuate the needy? NO one can convince me that those people and their situations were not known of. They are wards of the State Welfare system, (insert heated political opinions in another thread). Their names and addresses are on file. Whether it is for Meds or funding, they are known. They were left for dead.
That last statement may vilify me. That’s how I have witnessed this disaster. History has shown how the poor are left out, time and time again. I see this as another example.
The Hard question remains; Did New Orleans City Government see this hurricane as another potential disaster? Or, as a real threat. As the media had shown how city officials were "trickling" back into the city days after the levee broke. It is my opinion that they saw it a serious threat and had gotten themselves and their families out of town. Willfully choosing to neglect their constituents and disregard their disaster plan.
I also have to say that I am saddened and heart fully dismayed at the Mayor of New Orleans. His actions as an elected Official representing the City, with such a foul mouth on the radio, attempting to deflect and redirect his negligence and inept leadership on the President of the United States is deplorable.
However, should he have been a Man and a Leader, how much of this suffering and death would have been averted?
Or, did his political handlers advise him that it is better ask for forgiveness than for permission? Meaning it would be cheaper and easier to clean up this mess and play on the heartstrings of his surrounding states to take these people after a disaster. Than to ask them in advance to take their poor knowing that these people may stay indefinitely and prove taxing to the local gov'ts.
Hard and nasty questions to consider, given we are talking about fellow human beings in the 21st century.
 
MonsterMark said:
Hey, what happened to the 10,000 dead Mayor Hagin?

And I love how the term Refugee has now be redirected to Evacuee. Nice.



Complete article here



The federal response to Katrina was not as portrayed

Sunday, September 11, 2005

It is settled wisdom among journalists that the federal response to the devastation wrought by Hurricane Katrina was unconscionably slow.

"Mr. Bush's performance last week will rank as one of the worst ever during a dire national emergency," wrote New York Times columnist Bob Herbert in a somewhat more strident expression of the conventional wisdom. But the conventional wisdom is the opposite of the truth.

Jason van Steenwyk is a Florida Army National Guardsman who has been mobilized six times for hurricane relief.

He notes that:

"The federal government pretty much met its standard time lines, but the volume of support provided during the 72-96 hour was unprecedented. The federal response here was faster than Hugo, faster than Andrew, faster than Iniki, faster than Francine and Jeanne."

For instance, it took five days for National Guard troops to arrive in strength on the scene in Homestead, Fla. after Hurricane Andrew hit in 2002. But after Katrina, there was a significant National Guard presence in the afflicted region in three.

Journalists who are long on opinions and short on knowledge have no idea what is involved in moving hundreds of tons of relief supplies into an area the size of England in which power lines are down, telecommunications are out, no gasoline is available, bridges are damaged, roads and airports are covered with debris, and apparently have little interest in finding out.

So they libel as a "national disgrace" the most monumental and successful disaster relief operation in world history.

I write this column a week and a day after the main levee protecting New Orleans breached. In the course of that week: More than 32,000 people have been rescued, many plucked from rooftops by Coast Guard helicopters.

The Army Corps of Engineers has all but repaired the breaches and begun pumping water out of New Orleans.

Shelter, food and medical care have been provided to more than 180,000 refugees.

Journalists complain that it took a whole week to do this. A former Air Force logistics officer had some words of advice for us in the Fourth Estate on his blog, Moltenthought: "We do not yet have teleporter or replicator technology like you saw on 'Star Trek' in college between hookah hits and waiting to pick up your worthless communications degree while the grown-ups actually engaged in the recovery effort were studying engineering.

"The United States military can wipe out the Taliban and the Iraqi Republican Guard far more swiftly than they can bring 3 million Swanson dinners to an underwater city through an area the size of Great Britain which has no power, no working ports or airports, and a devastated and impassable road network.

"You cannot speed recovery and relief efforts up by prepositioning assets (in the affected areas) since the assets are endangered by the very storm which destroyed the region. "No amount of yelling, crying and mustering of moral indignation will change any of the facts above." "You cannot just snap your fingers and make the military appear somewhere," van Steenwyk said.

Guardsmen need to receive mobilization orders; report to their armories; draw equipment; receive orders and convoy to the disaster area. Guardsmen driving down from Pennsylvania or Navy ships sailing from Norfolk can't be on the scene immediately.

Relief efforts must be planned. Other than prepositioning supplies near the area likely to be afflicted (which was done quite efficiently), this cannot be done until the hurricane has struck and a damage assessment can be made. There must be a route reconnaissance to determine if roads are open, and bridges along the way can bear the weight of heavily laden trucks.

And federal troops and Guardsmen from other states cannot be sent to a disaster area until their presence has been requested by the governors of the afflicted states.

Exhibit A on the bill of indictment of federal sluggishness is that it took four days before most people were evacuated from the Louisiana Superdome. The levee broke Tuesday morning. Buses had to be rounded up and driven from Houston to New Orleans across debris-strewn roads. The first ones arrived Wednesday evening. That seems pretty fast to me.

A better question -- which few journalists ask -- is why weren't the roughly 2,000 municipal and school buses in New Orleans utilized to take people out of the city before Katrina struck?


You post an article by Jack Kelly in the Post Gazette to defend Shrub? He's a RWW and so's that paper. No credibility. Oops, thought I was fossten for a second.
Sorry.
 
97silverlsc said:
You post an article by Jack Kelly in the Post Gazette to defend Shrub? He's a RWW and so's that paper. No credibility. Oops, thought I was fossten for a second.
Sorry.

Actually, that paper is NOT a RWW paper and Jack Kelly is NOT a RWW. I know this because I have read his articles. He's actually ex-military, the former deputy assistant secretary of the Air Force in the Reagan Administration. You don't know what you're talking about. Nice try, Phil, but you are

*owned*
 
But Fossten, you forget...anything or anyone that doesn't have the Ted Kennedy stamp of approval is labeled as RWW.
 
fossten said:
Actually, that paper is NOT a RWW paper and Jack Kelly is NOT a RWW. I know this because I have read his articles. He's actually ex-military, the former deputy assistant secretary of the Air Force in the Reagan Administration. You don't know what you're talking about. Nice try, Phil, but you are

*owned*
Owned nothing. I was poking fun at the way you respond to ANY article that is critical of Shrub.
 
97silverlsc said:
Owned nothing. I was poking fun at the way you respond to ANY article that is critical of Shrub.

Har de har...you forget that I only respond to YOUR articles that way, since they ALL are op-eds, and not fact-oriented.
 
fossten said:
Har de har...you forget that I only respond to YOUR articles that way, since they ALL are op-eds, and not fact-oriented.

No actually you respond to anything from anyone you think is on the *other side*

You really have to have the last word?
 
raVeneyes said:
No actually you respond to anything from anyone you think is on the *other side*

You really have to have the last word?

Maybe I do. But if you respond to this, then that may indicate that you feel you must have the last word as well.
 
fossten said:
Maybe I do. But if you respond to this, then that may indicate that you feel you must have the last word as well.

Actually I think the high percentage of "fossteen" in the "last posted" column speaks pretty well to the fact that I don't.
 
raVeneyes said:
Actually I think the high percentage of "fossteen" in the "last posted" column speaks pretty well to the fact that I don't.

Who's "fossteen"?
 
fossten said:
Actually, that paper is NOT a RWW paper and Jack Kelly is NOT a RWW. I know this because I have read his articles.

:bowrofl: :bowrofl: Good thing for Jack Kelly that you read his articles, otherwise he might be considered a RWW?? LOL. I can see Jack's article lead-ins now, "Now Fossten-Approved!!" :bowrofl: :bowrofl: Get over yourself.
 
JohnnyBz00LS said:
:bowrofl: :bowrofl: Good thing for Jack Kelly that you read his articles, otherwise he might be considered a RWW?? LOL. I can see Jack's article lead-ins now, "Now Fossten-Approved!!" :bowrofl: :bowrofl: Get over yourself.

Nice try, once again you miss the point.

I see you are back posting again, after whining about me and going away for a while. Can't stay away from the personal stuff, can you.
 
I'm so flattered to be missed by you! :Beer

Yep, I just live for each minute of each day when I can come on here and nit-pick your posts and take personal jabs at you! :dj: NOT!
 

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