Need help/advice with pats issue on 2003 Lincoln LS 6 cylinder model

[Ron Sircar]

Hi

I recently bought a 2003 lincoln ls v6 which had a no start
Condition, the previous owner had replaced the front body
Module with one from a wreckers, unsure of why this was done but it resulted in a PATS no start condition. I had the car taken to the local ford dealership and requested they reprogram the PATS codes to get the car to start, long story short they didn't resolve the issue and charged me 1200 for the work they allegedly did.

I managed to buy all the body modules, gage cluster and ECU from a 2001 v6 ls lincoln which I confirmed worked prior to removing myself, however I didn't realize the 2003 uses variable valve timing, if I use the 2001 ECU with corresponding body modules gage cluster and ignition switch do I need to lock out the variable Valve timing? And if so how do I do it? I realize I won't have drive by wire throttle control either but I will just run the old throttle body and cable and pedal from the 2001 to get around that. If anyone has an idea on the valve timing and how to lock it in a fixed position please email me at Ron_sircar@hotmail.com or on here

Thanks

 

[joegr]

This won't work!
The gen II modules speak a different language than the gen I modules.
The gen I PCM will not be able to talk to the REM to turn the fuel pump on. It also can't control the gen II transmission (it's a bit different on the inside), nor will it correctly read the gen II engine sensors. There is also a whole bunch of other stuff that won't work. (Climate control, SRS, ABS, speedometer, and on and on...) The valve timing is the least of your issues.

I assume that by "front body module" you mean the FEM. The FEM is not involved with PATS at all and was never the problem. PATS is strictly the PCM, the cluster, the transponder, and the keys.

 

[G-RELL]

how much $$$ do you have into this 03 v6?!?!?!?

 

[1LoudLS]

interesting that $1200 and the dealer still could fix the problem...

 

[G-RELL]

did you tow it to the dealer... pay $1200.. and tow it out?!?!

 

[RigsLS]

Honestly I don't get this handing over of money for services not rendered. I don't care what they did or didn't. Why is it not running yet they looking to collect.

 

[joegr]

Honestly I don't get this handing over of money for services not rendered. I don't care what they did or didn't. Why is it not running yet they looking to collect.

I guess it depends on what he asked for and agreed to. Simplified example:

1. "My LS won't start. Fix it." Certainly this should not have resulted in his having to pay when it still didn't work.

2. "I need you to replace X, Y, and Z on my LS." I can see that resulting in a charge, even if X, Y, and Z weren't the problem, or weren't the whole problem.

 

[G-RELL]

option 2 seems likely... saw it a lot in my few years.

 

[RigsLS]

Yeah, diagnosis and commitment to repair.

They'll try a couple of it needs this and it needs that where you remind them it needs to be working when all said and done.

 

[Ron Sircar]

This won't work!
The gen II modules speak a different language than the gen I modules.
The gen I PCM will not be able to talk to the REM to turn the fuel pump on. It also can't control the gen II transmission (it's a bit different on the inside), nor will it correctly read the gen II engine sensors. There is also a whole bunch of other stuff that won't work. (Climate control, SRS, ABS, speedometer, and on and on...) The valve timing is the least of your issues.

I assume that by "front body module" you mean the FEM. The FEM is not involved with PATS at all and was never the problem. PATS is strictly the PCM, the cluster, the transponder, and the keys.

Yes it is the FEM that the previous owner changed, I replaced all this stuff basically because he told me he had someone troubleshoot the issue and traced it to that module. The only thing the dealership told me was they could not get the cluster to communicate and they wanted to replace it with a used one and then keep going with no promise of how long or how much money it would cost. When I came to get the car towed to my home they claimed they couldn't even get it to roll up the windows although I had no issue doing that once I boosted the battery with another car.

Wow so I guess the parts I bought from the first gen v6 car was a waste too then I did install the modules and ignition switch with key from donor car, haven't installed the PCM but tried cranking over I think 1st gen cluster is working at least looks like it, pats light blinks obviously and motor doesn't catch of course.

I have one other option but more time consuming I have a complete running 1st gen 2002 v8 Ls parts car that starts and drives but has Abs and advance track warnings, the body is shot on it, I could pull all the wiring, modules, ecu engine and trans basically everything and transfer over to the 2003 v6 car, just a time consuming tedious task I was trying to avoid

 

[Ron Sircar]

Yes unfortunately

 

[Ron Sircar]

how much $$$ do you have into this 03 v6?!?!?!?

I paid $750 for the car, wasted $1200 for the dealership to "attempt to reprogram and cut a second key" and the $300 for a bunch of 1st gen v6 parts which I am just learning now are not going to work

I guess my best option now is yanking everything
From my running 2002 parts car (v8 model) and converting the 2003 over with the V8 powertrain and electronics

 

[Ron Sircar]

I guess it depends on what he asked for and agreed to. Simplified example:

1. "My LS won't start. Fix it." Certainly this should not have resulted in his having to pay when it still didn't work.

2. "I need you to replace X, Y, and Z on my LS." I can see that resulting in a charge, even if X, Y, and Z weren't the problem, or weren't the whole problem.

the dealership told me no guarantees how long or even a rough idea on cost before they started, I presumed with the factory tools and diagnostic software should have been easy to pinpoint and repair

 

[G-RELL]

I paid $750 for the car, wasted $1200 for the dealership to "attempt to reprogram and cut a second key" and the $300 for a bunch of 1st gen v6 parts which I am just learning now are not going to work

I guess my best option now is yanking everything
From my running 2002 parts car (v8 model) and converting the 2003 over with the V8 powertrain and electronics

oh ok.... WAIT WHAT!?!??!?!?! isnt the 03 a v6???? THIS WILL NOT WORK EITHER!!!! are you crazy!!!!! ... (oh just cana.... JK)

 

[LS4me]

oh ok.... WAIT WHAT!?!??!?!?! isnt the 03 a v6???? THIS WILL NOT WORK EITHER!!!! are you crazy!!!!! ... (oh just cana.... JK)

Sure it will. But in the end he could buy a new 'Vette with the money he spent! And if he wanted a 4-door he could get a low-mileage pre-owned M5 with a warranty!

 

[1LoudLS]

I guess my best option now is yanking everything From my running 2002 parts car (v8 model) and converting the 2003 over with the V8 powertrain and electronics

no ruining a running car for all the work is a wast of time, your best option would be to sell the non working turd, and the running but falling apart car and just buying one car that works and is not falling apart...

 

[Ron Sircar]

This won't work!
The gen II modules speak a different language than the gen I modules.
The gen I PCM will not be able to talk to the REM to turn the fuel pump on. It also can't control the gen II transmission (it's a bit different on the inside), nor will it correctly read the gen II engine sensors. There is also a whole bunch of other stuff that won't work. (Climate control, SRS, ABS, speedometer, and on and on...) The valve timing is the least of your issues.

I assume that by "front body module" you mean the FEM. The FEM is not involved with PATS at all and was never the problem. PATS is strictly the PCM, the cluster, the transponder, and the keys.

Please forgive me because I am new to working on Lincoln LS's, however I mechanically and electrically capable of a fair bit

Going back to the guage cluster, is the gen 1 cluster and PATS module compatable with the gen II ECU and transponder? I can easily swap back in the FEM and REM that I put in from the gen 1 V6 car, Do I require 2 keys before reprogramming the PATS module in this scenario? One thing I should note and not sure if it makes any diffrence, but the parking brake was stuck on and would not disengage with the original FEM and REM, however when I plugged in the gen 1 modules it is off now.

Another question is are the wiring harnesses significantly different between gen 1 and 2 V6, and gen 1 V8 in terms of dash harness and body harness, the ECU harness I expect to be different

If the gen 1 V6 guage cluster I put in, is compatible with the original gen 2 ECU, and I put back in the original ignition switch, then I should theoretically only need to reprogram the PATS module to the correct code to get the car to start? is this correct?

please advise, and thank you for the information

 

[joegr]

...Going back to the guage cluster, is the gen 1 cluster and PATS module compatable with the gen II ECU and transponder? ...

No. (Gen II is CAN bus, gen I is not. None of the modules can communicate between generations. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear before.)

...Do I require 2 keys before reprogramming the PATS module in this scenario? ...

PATS always requires two keys to program.

...Another question is are the wiring harnesses significantly different between gen 1 and 2 V6, and gen 1 V8 in terms of dash harness and body harness, the ECU harness I expect to be different...

This depends on your definition of significant.

...If the gen 1 V6 guage cluster I put in, is compatible with the original gen 2 ECU, and I put back in the original ignition switch, then I should theoretically only need to reprogram the PATS module to the correct code to get the car to start? is this correct?...

It is not compatible.

 

[Ron Sircar]

No. (Gen II is CAN bus, gen I is not. None of the modules can communicate between generations. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear before.)



PATS always requires two keys to program.



This depends on your definition of significant.



It is not compatible.

Hi thanks have a few more questions

is the pats module able to be swapped from the gen 1 v6 cluster I have onto the gen 2 original cluster? I have not been able to find any gen 2 parts readily close to me

as for the wiring harness question what I wanted to know is the body and dash harness and power distribution harness on my 2003, if I go to the trouble of pulling the V8 and trans and computer/wiring/cluster and ignition/transponder from my running 2002 v8 car and put all of that into the non running v6 car turning it into essentially from an electrical stand point a first gen v8 car would I need to replace body and dash harnesses? All the plugs seem to be the same except the FEM on second gen v6 had one plug on side facing the driver where the first gen FEM had a second grey port with 4 pins that there was no harness plug to put in? Other than that everything else appears to be the same in regards to FEM and REM