New and HOT brakes!

altitude_19

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So I just rebuilt the front brakes on my Mark. I installed slotted Summit Racing disks, standard Duralast pads, and remanufactured calipers. I greased the slider pins, seated the pads before it came off the lift, and used high-temp brake fluid. I drove it about 10 miles to a restaurant tonight, averaging about 50 MPH. When I got there, the front disks were HOT. Not smoking, or sticking engaged, but hot enough to where I could only stand to touch them for less than a second at a time. Rear brakes were very warm, but cool enough to where I could keep my finger to them.
So, is it normal for front disks to get that hot? Is it a break-in thing? Will they run cooler after a few hundred miles?
 
Pads could be dragging a bit. I usually use that disc brake quiet stuff that glues the pads to the caliper do the pads pull away from the rotor when the caliper relaxes.
 
You got to remember that 70% roughly of your braking effort comes from the front and the remainder comes from the back. That being said of course your fronts may be hotter than the rears. And gases and friction causes a good amount of brake heat. I would not think much of it, if you start to feel a shudder when you apply the brakes or a pedal abnormality then I would check into it.
 
yea, i ran into the same problem. my brakes started by heating up like that, then they started making a CHIT TON of noise. now then heat up to the point where the heat of the rim its self is hot enough to where you cant hold your finger on the rim for very long. and they make a ton of nose with stopping, i think that the brake pads are rubbing against my rotors when im not applying my brakes.... any ideas guys?

unless a bad wheel bearing sounds like like brake squeal.. my dad keeps trying to say it could be a bad bushing in the front end... but this is a brake noise, i only get it when i first apply the brakes or after i come to a complete stop you can hear it still like the pads are still trying to apply to the rotor...

idk, maybe i just have super hearing.... LOL
 
First thing I would do is jack up the front and turn the wheels by hand to see if you have drag
 
Did this happen on it's own, or after you worked on them?

this happend after i redid my whole brake system. new brakes lines from the ABS to the wheels, new calipers (from napa, "midnight premium" or something like that they are black calipers) and new pads from napa "premium semi-metallic" (just a side note here, NEVER BUY SEMI METALLIC PADS) and new rotors from napa.

after putting 1k miles on her in about a year.

my rotors are very very shiny, i can see my reflection in them, and my pads have glazing all over them.... im going to buy a nice set of drilled or slotted rotors for her, and a nice set of ceramic pads.

just me thinking here, but there is no way for the pad its self to attach to the caliper. so i think that they are not being pulled back when the caliper moves back.
 
Do not get drilled rotors, they crack.

You can not seat in pads before a vehicle leaves a rack, impossible, all brake pads have a specific "break-in" procedure that needs to be done after doing a re-friction (ie replacing/or machining old rotors and replacing pads)
Semi-met pads will typically be noisier than ceramics

Spin yours wheels as directed above to check for dragging, if dragging is occurring, remove wheel and open the bleeder valve on the caliper, if this frees up the drag, you've got bad hoses or a restriction in the line or elsewhere. If opening the bleeder does not free the drag, replace the caliper

What did you "grease" the caliper guide pins with?

The "anti-squeek" spray or whatever that you put on pads is a load of crap, go ahead and waste your money masking a problem if you must. Ive only been working in a brake specific shop for 4 years- I may be wrong

Lastly- "Duralast" pads are by far the worst you can use.. The only thing they're good for is throwing them at the idiots at AutoZone that sell them.. If you're going to try and save money on the ONLY system on your car designed to help it not smash into things.. Then learn to deal with imperfections
 
did you clean the oil off the rotors before you drove it? what i mean is did you use brake cleaner before you drove it? It could be the residual oil burning off, and the pads seating. I cant imagine new calipers, and greased sliders hanging up, but you never know.
 
Yep, used brake cleaner to get all the factory junk off the disks. I've done some googling, it seems it's fairly common for new components to get hot or even smoke during bedding.
Somebody want to experiment for me? Drive your Mark around and jam your finger to the front brakes. Tell me if you have a burn. If front brakes get intolerably hot to the touch on a regular basis, I won't be worried about mine.
 
the "oil" substance on most new rotors is called Cosmoline, used for the sole purpose to protect the rotor from rusting while in storage prior to you purchasing it.

front brakes will run hotter than the rears as long as everything is working properly, ive lit cigarettes on front rotors before. "heat spots" and glazing are warning signs that you have an issue. rotors should not be shiney like mirrors or spotted, these symptoms are caused by over heating. once a rotor glazes it will also glaze the friction surface of the pad, and over time cook the pad much like placing potting clay in a kiln, which will harden the pad and in often cases make it harder than the rotor, which will then allow the pad to start bedding into the rotor, which is why alot of rotors have those lips on the outter edge, you then run the risk if the rotor cracking or shattering.

if youve over heated the rotor, you can also damage the square cut seal and phenolic pistons in the caliper which will cause it to bind and not relax normally. phenolic is a plastic resin, if you know anything about plastic..heat is not its best friend
 
Yep, used brake cleaner to get all the factory junk off the disks. I've done some googling, it seems it's fairly common for new components to get hot or even smoke during bedding.
Somebody want to experiment for me? Drive your Mark around and jam your finger to the front brakes. Tell me if you have a burn. If front brakes get intolerably hot to the touch on a regular basis, I won't be worried about mine.
No. Nobody here is dumb enough to jam their fingers on their brake rotors after driving them. We undderstand friction and metal surfaces.
I dont touch the burners on my stove to see how hot they are as well.
I bought a laser temp gun for a reason, I dont know how well my finger is calibrated.
 
No. Nobody here is dumb enough to jam their fingers on their brake rotors after driving them. We undderstand friction and metal surfaces.
I dont touch the burners on my stove to see how hot they are as well.
I bought a laser temp gun for a reason, I dont know how well my finger is calibrated.

LOL, yea... i learned the hard way. had a 3rd degree burn on my middle finger for about 2 weeks... :mad:
 
No. Nobody here is dumb enough to jam their fingers on their brake rotors after driving them. We undderstand friction and metal surfaces.
I dont touch the burners on my stove to see how hot they are as well.
I bought a laser temp gun for a reason, I dont know how well my finger is calibrated.

your tongue and peen are more sensitive than your finger tip, use those
 
Still waiting on that answer about semi-metallic pads. What's their downside?

They are just that, mettalic, they wear faster, they create more friction, they create more brake dust and old technology. Ceramic is what I buy, but we are not here to tell you what you need to do, but to inform you of the good and bad.

Who in the world ever taught you to gauge brake heat by sticking your finger on the rotor? That is totally idiotic for you to do that. If you read my first post, you would realize why your fronts are hoter than your rears.
 
Do not get drilled rotors, they crack.

I think it depends on the application. These are rear disks that had about 65K miles on the when I replaced them.

The fronts, I agree with you. Even the factory $1,300 dollar rotors were starting to show signs of cracking around a couple of the holes after 65K miles. But I must say, you had to look hard to see the cracks.

20091213_018.jpg
 
Lastly- "Duralast" pads are by far the worst you can use.. The only thing they're good for is throwing them at the idiots at AutoZone that sell them.. If you're going to try and save money on the ONLY system on your car designed to help it not smash into things.. Then learn to deal with imperfections

I wouldn't necessarily agree, their "C-Max" line of ceramics seem to be pretty good. I've had a set on the front of my Crown Vic that I have abused for 50k miles, including trips to the autocross and many instances where I've repeatedly "tested" them, they've always done fine. Their regular pads are just run of the mill budget parts store pads.
 
Who in the world ever taught you to gauge brake heat by sticking your finger on the rotor? That is totally idiotic for you to do that. If you read my first post, you would realize why your fronts are hoter than your rears.
Stop being a D$%* and educate me then. I'm not here for you to dance on the grave of what I don't know. I DON'T KNOW HOW HOT THESE THINGS NORMALLY GET. Are you saying it's normal for them to stay too hot to touch? If you go easy on me for not knowing brakes, I won't give you a hard time for not knowing jet engines. Deal?
 
I am gonna make a wild assumption here and guess you work on jet engines? Now while I could talk jet engines all day with you (they are the simplest of all engines) I have to wonder even more why you would use your finger to test brake temps.

Are they hotter then you can touch after normal driving? Yes. Why? Friction. You say you didnt use them? How did you come to a stop to put the car in park?
 
ok, semi metallic brake pads have chunks of metal in them. Hence the name metallic, the down side to them is that they wear down your rotors quicker, also they can make more noise. (metal on metal contact)



Ceramic pads still cause dust, it's just not black so you can't see it. Besides the lack of black dust, ceramic pads have several benefits that make them worth the extra cost. Here is a snippet from this ARTICLE that discusses the advantages of installing ceramic pads and other brake issues with your vehicle:

Keith Reinhardt wrote:
Although first introduced as far back as 1985 on some new vehicles, mass after-market applications for ceramic-based disc brake pads are just now becoming widely available. Approximately 33 percent of all new vehicles, domestic and foreign combined, now have ceramic-based disc brake pads. The newest generation of ceramic brake lining compounds contain no chopped steel fibers or steel wool as found in earlier semi-metallic linings, but instead substitute ceramic compounds and copper fibers. These changes provide modern ceramic-based lining materials the capability of handling today's high brake temperatures with less heat fade, faster recovery time, and less wear on both the pads and rotors.'

Of even more value to brake repair facilities is the ability of ceramic lining compounds to significantly reduce annoying brake noise or squeal, which is the No. 1 consumer complaint relating to brake service. Ceramic compounds dampen noise and move brake pad vibrations to a frequency outside of our human hearing range, 20 Hz through 20,000 Hz. As with earlier disc brake pad designs, some ceramic pad applications may also incorporate other noise-reducing features such as chamfers, slots and insulator shims. One leading after-market manufacturer has gone as far as naming its line of ceramic brake pads "Quiet Stop."

Another positive characteristic associated with ceramic brake lining materials is the absence of visible brake dust, a feature that any vehicle owner with stylish wheels will appreciate. All brake materials, ceramic included, will produce some brake dust. Earlier semi-metallic and organic brake compounds left a brownish black dust on wheels. In comparison, ceramic compounds produce a light-colored dust that is much less noticeable and does not attach itself to wheels.

Although an increase in product cost will more than likely be associated with ceramic-based brake linings, their benefits may be worthwhile for consumers. Based on their own durability tests, lining manufacturers say these compounds will outlast most other premium pad materials by a considerable margin. However, after-market brake pads with ceramic materials should only be used on those applications where the OEM specified a similar formula.

Additionally, you may hear (or see, if online) complaints about poor stopping power with cold brakes. This is typically true about older ceramic pads and ceramic pads designed for racing, but today's consumer grade ceramic pads have great stopping power. In fact about 33% of new vehicle today come stock with ceramic pads. What is important though is that car's rotors are designed for ceramic pads, otherwise the rotors will typically wear faster. Check with the vehicle manufacturer about this.
 
Stop being a D$%* and educate me then. I'm not here for you to dance on the grave of what I don't know. I DON'T KNOW HOW HOT THESE THINGS NORMALLY GET. Are you saying it's normal for them to stay too hot to touch? If you go easy on me for not knowing brakes, I won't give you a hard time for not knowing jet engines. Deal?

I do not give a sh*t about jet engines.

Oh and by the way, for 13 yrs I rebuilt turbine engines in the military, from the air splitter (nose cone) to the reduction gear box, and everything inbetween, was trained by the Department of Logistics. And did it well, so if you want to quiz me about how one works and the simplicity of it, then go ahead, I would hate to embarrass you in public.

So you want a education do ya?

Here it is in a nut shell, first thing first, you unlock vehicle, open door, enter vehicle, close the door, put key into ignition, turn to start position then release key, put your seat belt on, apply brake, looks in all four directions, put shifter into reverse, look back thru rear view mirror and proceed to back out of driveway, stop to be sure no oncoming traffic is coming your way, continue to back out, apply brake again, put shifter in drive position, take foot off of brake pedal, put same foot on gas pedal, proceed forward, drive 50 mph till you hit red light, take foot of accelerator pedal and use same foot and apply the brake till you stop, repeat these couple of steps remaining at a constant speed of 50 as you stated until you arrive at diner, turn your turn signal on, take foot off accelerator and apply brake softly to slow down, turn into diner, while turning into diner keep applying brakes to stay at a low speed but not to a complete stop, find parking space, while still dragging brake, once you find parking space turn into such space while still dragging the brakes, to apply fully once you are in parking space completely, while brakes are still applied, put shifter into park position, then release brake pedal. roll up windows, undo seat belt, open door, rotate body sideways till feet are out of vehicle and touching solid ground, step out of vehicle, close door, use transmitter to lock vehicle, step to the front of the car, kneel down, stick finger on front rotor till you can not stand it any longer, with a quick motion bring finger to tongue and suck on it from extreme rotor burn (may blister), stand up after cussing at one self saying to one self damn that is hot, stand up, proceed to rear of vehicle, kneel down, stick same finger on rear rotor, (NOW, I would think that one would of learned lesson from just doing this not 1 minute ago and the pain felt from burning said finger) noticing no burn, get up, go into diner, eat and pay, leave, go reverse route that it took to get to diner to go home, once in house, sit in front of computer, still sucking on swollen finger, thinking to oneself if I should post this to thread asking should my rotors be hot to the touch.

In this explanation you applied brakes about 15-20 times from soft apply to full stop, the vehicle wt 2 tons, one metal object and metallic pad x4 are responsible to bring said vehicle to a stop quickly if needed, two objects joined and are to remain joined for a period of time, friction creates heat, heat is hot, will always be hot, sometimes hotter than normal, depends on variables. Front brakes are your primary source of stopping to up wards of 70% of the demand to stop, the rears make up the difference, so with this in mind, fronts would tend to be hotter than rears and would most likely burn your little finger. How much more tutoring do you want, I am available all day and night if need be. Just let me know if I can be more of assistance.


One more thing, if you are trying to bash me with your so called jet mechanic skills, then I would assume that the theory behind brake heat, friction, and gases emitted would be a simple mind tease. But since you keep asking the same question over and over tells me you are not too well versed in mechanical theory.
 
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ok, semi metallic brake pads have chunks of metal in them. Hence the name metallic, the down side to them is that they wear down your rotors quicker, also they can make more noise. (metal on metal contact)

interesting. thanks for posting that.
 
I would hate to embarrass you in public
So you keep embarrassing yourself? Most of us would be embarrassed if we were half the D@#$ you are. See, this is the sorta place where people go for help. And you aren't helpful. You're a D#$%. And no, I'm not a wrench-turner, that was a random example to illustrate that NOBODY knows everything, despite an apparent illusion that you do. I used it because I don't talk about my job.
I asked you a simple yes/no question (SHOULD THEY BE THAT HOT?). All I got back was "idiot, stupid, limited understanding" high-and-mighty crap. Doesn't matter if it's true. You're probably fat, ugly, or an A$$hole, but the public at large has the decency not to tell you so. Try it out, and you might have more friends (cue the "got enough friends" "don't want more friends" line...I've heard it from your type plenty of times).
I don't care what you did in the military. I will say we're glad every time we see someone like you go out the door. Do us a favor and stay there.

I'd be awful happy if a mod closed this thread now. Too much ego. Not enough info.
 

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