Newt Gingrich And The Reductio Ad Hitlerlum

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Newt Gingrich And The Reductio Ad Hitlerlum

Yesterday on Fox News Sunday, Newt Gingrich became the latest politician to compare the Obama Administration to the Nazis:
Wallace: You also write this on the screen: “The secular socialist machine represents as great a threat to America as Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union once did.” Mr. Speaker, respectfully, isn’t that wildly over the top?
Gingrich: No, not if by America you mean….Just listen to President Obama’s language. He gets to decide who earns how much. He gets to decide when it’s too much.
Wallace: We’re not talking about any company. We’re talking about companies that the government has put billions of dollars in…
Gingrich: No, no..he has said publicly and generically. Some Americans earn too much. So now he’s going to decide that?
Wallace: No, he’s not. He has said that some Americans earn too much.
Gingrich: …As a threat to our American way of life. The secular-socialist left represents a fundamental replacement of America, a very different world view, a very different outcome. I think is a very serious threat to our way of life.
Trotting out the “Nazi” insult has become such a common part of the American political lexicon that it’s hardly a surprise anymore. The left put a Hitler moustache on George W. Bush while he was in office, and now, the right does the same to Obama. Its become so common, in fact, that seems like it’s starting to lose it’s emotional resonance. If everything your opponent does is “Nazi-like,” then using the word just becomes part of the regular background chatter of the political world.
As Kathleen Parker argued nearly a year ago when the Nazi analogy was a common part of the town hall protests and counter protests, what it really displays is massive intellectual weakness:
Invocations of Hitler usually mean two things: one, a poverty of imagination, and two, a paucity of good arguments. It is nearly axiomatic that any protest against government action will feature Hitler in some form. Left and right are equally guilty. Trivializing such evil is an insult to the memory of millions who suffered and died by his order, as well as to the intelligence of all sentient beings.
It may no longer be possible in this country to have a serious debate about anything. Inevitably, substance devolves into silliness. Even the most dignified of statesmen become caricatures when juxtaposed with the ridiculous.
It seems like it would be possible to have a vigorous political debate without comparing one’s opponents to one of the most evil regimes in history. For one thing, it trivializes the evil that the Nazis did and insults the memory of their victims. For another, it’s not really a political argument, it’s a way of shutting your opponents up.
Ideally, people who do things like this, whether their name is Newt Gingrich, Glenn Beck, Keith Olbermann, or Michael Moore, would be laughed out of the political arena. The fact that they aren’t indicates that we’ll be hearing Nazi analogies for some time to come.

_______________________________________________________________

So now it's the republicans turn to visit the hitler tree for nourishment and show their lack of imagination and good arguments.
 
That little diatribe conviniently dodges the fact that the policies the Obama administration is proposing stem from the same fundamental worldview, which is the point Gingrich is making.

National socialism is collectivism towards the end of social justice and progressivism is collectivism towards the end of social justice. There are a whole host of assumptions behind that viewpoint that both share.

The little line saying, "The left put a Hitler moustache on George W. Bush while he was in office, and now, the right does the same to Obama." is an out and out lie because it is in fact not the right but the left that is "putting a Hitler moustache on [Obama]". It also ignores the fact that there is a fundamental worldview that Obama's Administration shares with National Socialism or Communism.

to try and dismiss the argument as Reductio Ad Hitlerlum is to dishonestly ignore those facts.
 
That little diatribe conviniently dodges the fact that the policies the Obama administration is proposing stem from the same fundamental worldview, which is the point Gingrich is making.

National socialism is collectivism towards the end of social justice and progressivism is collectivism towards the end of social justice. There are a whole host of assumptions behind that viewpoint that both share.

The little line saying, "The left put a Hitler moustache on George W. Bush while he was in office, and now, the right does the same to Obama." is an out and out lie because it is in fact not the right but the left that is "putting a Hitler moustache on [Obama]". It also ignores the fact that there is a fundamental worldview that Obama's Administration shares with National Socialism or Communism.

to try and dismiss the argument as Reductio Ad Hitlerlum is to dishonestly ignore those facts.


So what are you saying?
Obama brought it upon himself that he's being called Hitler like?
How is the left putting a hitler moustache on Obama when it's the right that has been parading around in swastikas until recently.
You're learning how to spin now....
 
The little line saying, "The left put a Hitler moustache on George W. Bush while he was in office, and now, the right does the same to Obama." is an out and out lie because it is in fact not the right but the left that is "putting a Hitler moustache on [Obama]". It also ignores the fact that there is a fundamental worldview that Obama's Administration shares with National Socialism or Communism.

So shag - I see you are saying one of three things...

1. There is some big conspiracy theory (as Cal proposed) and Obama is a front man or a fall man for a larger group - and that group is looking to further its National Socialism or Communism agenda, while using Obama as a scapegoat. Obama will take the fall - and it will happen faster if the Hitler connection is fostered, perhaps by the same background group.

2. That it was the left that really drew the mustaches on the posters of Obama, and that the left infiltrated those groups (tea party) to make the right look ridiculous.

3. Obama has basically placed that mustache there himself. That the correlation between one of the most vile humans to ever walk the planet and Obama is a correct one, and it is only just and right that we view Obama in the same 'light'. His policies, and therefore the policies of the American left, are exactly those of the National Socialist Party, and the connecting of Obama and the Nazis are correct?

Or do you have a magical 4th possibility Shag...

And more about the subject at hand. I recently spent some time with a friend who was here from Europe and he was shocked at all the Nazi/Hitler references that are being thrown about here in the states. That doesn't really happen anywhere else because they sort of know what really lies behind the swastika, it seems to have become somewhat diluted here. Maybe time, maybe distance...
 
Hitler's atrocities and evilness towards jews and other inferior races and groups as he considered them completely overshadows the rememberance of national socialism as it related to governing the country for the pure german race.
Hitler is synonymous with genocide on a mass produced industrial scale in pursuit of the genetic master race and this is why most people tune out when these ludicrous comparisons are brought up.

Hitler and his circle dabbled in the occult and considered themselves the new gods with Hitler as the christlike figure.They steamrollered over europe with their amphetamine stimulated shock troops in one of the darkest nastiest pieces of world history so far.
The europeans suffered it first hand living through it and remember it much more clearly than we do.
Since we were over here none of us had to live under nazism which may help explain why politicos here take mentioning it so much more lightly and frivolously.
The europeans are shocked because they consder that we here don't know what we are talking about.
My grandparents had to leave their cushy life (they had servants) in academia (my grandfather was dean of the Lvov university)
take a few possesions and run in the night to avoid being exterminated as part of the intelligencia.
It was a good thing they spoke perfect german as there were some terrifying moments.
My father was out on his own when he was 10 years old surviving in the Hitler hell making booze from discarded sugar beats from behind a factory to trade for food.
People beclown themselves when they make hitler comparisons like these.
 
So what are you saying?
Obama brought it upon himself that he's being called Hitler like?

Are you really that ignorant?

How is the left putting a hitler moustache on Obama when it's the right that has been parading around in swastikas until recently.

Now you are flat out LYING and you know it.

You're learning how to spin now....

No, I don't need to. You are the one LYING here.
 
People beclown themselves when they make hitler comparisons like these.

You really have no clue what you are talking about, do you.

I would go into detail in disproving your points but A) there is hardly any point to disprove and B) you have shown that the truth is irrelevant to you
 
Are you really that ignorant?



Now you are flat out LYING and you know it.



No, I don't need to. You are the one LYING here.

Yes I am.
Please clear up my ignorance.
You seem to have a reluctance expressing opinion.
It's easy to produce pics of Tea Partiers sporting Obama as Hitler and other swastika pictures. I did it in a previous post you must have forgotten about. :rolleyes:

You're the one with the pants on fire :p
So again I'm supposed to believe you instead of my own eyes.
 
So shag - I see you are saying one of three things...

Only one of the three things you are accusing me of is even close to what I am saying. The others are misleading lies. Typical for you.

1. There is some big conspiracy theory (as Cal proposed) and Obama is a front man or a fall man for a larger group - and that group is looking to further its National Socialism or Communism agenda, while using Obama as a scapegoat. Obama will take the fall - and it will happen faster if the Hitler connection is fostered, perhaps by the same background group.

It seems to be the new propaganda technique with you to label anything that threatens your agenda as a "conspiracy theory". Never mind that it has no basis in reality.

You are intentionally setting up a straw man and you know it.

2. That it was the left that really drew the mustaches on the posters of Obama, and that the left infiltrated those groups (tea party) to make the right look ridiculous.

To make them look ridiculous? Infiltrating and smearing the tea parties by leftist has been documented to happen and has happened with with regards to the Nazi stuff.

However, I was specifically referring to LaRouche Democrats.


3. Obama has basically placed that mustache there himself. That the correlation between one of the most vile humans to ever walk the planet and Obama is a correct one, and it is only just and right that we view Obama in the same 'light'. His policies, and therefore the policies of the American left, are exactly those of the National Socialist Party, and the connecting of Obama and the Nazis are correct?

Again this is not at all what I said and you know it. Your lies are very transparent today. Did you not get your coffee this morning?
 
It's easy to produce pics of Tea Partiers sporting Obama as Hitler and other swastika pictures. I did it in a previous post you must have forgotten about. :rolleyes:

Well, they were people you ASSUMED were tea partiers. Doesn't make them tea partiers. The fact is that these things have been coming from the left. That is a well documented fact that has been proven and linked to multiple times in the forum.

If you are not aware of that, you have only yourself to blame.

You're the one with the pants on fire

No, that would still be you.

So again I'm supposed to believe you instead of my own eyes.

How about doing some research instead of listening to the Daily Show and other lying leftist sources and accepting what they say at face value. In other words; CRITICAL THOUGHT. Something you have demonstrated you are incapable of.
 
The disingenuous double standard here is amazing, the left compared Bush to Hitler for close to a decade, and compared the right to Nazism for much, much longer. However, when one of their own gets compared to National Socialists (and Hitler, specifically), even in genuine, reasonable ways, all of a sudden that comparison of "off limits" and anyone spouting it is a moron.
 
Well, they were people you ASSUMED were tea partiers. Doesn't make them tea partiers. The fact is that these things have been coming from the left. That is a well documented fact that has been proven and linked to multiple times in the forum.

If you are not aware of that, you have only yourself to blame.



No, that would still be you.



How about doing some research instead of listening to the Daily Show and other lying leftist sources and accepting what they say at face value. In other words; CRITICAL THOUGHT. Something you have demonstrated you are incapable of.

There's too many pics of this to all be agent provocateurs which there are undoubtedly a few of.
And they get acknowledged and not asked to leave.
 
The disingenuous double standard here is amazing, the left compared Bush to Hitler for close to a decade, and compared the right to Nazism for much, much longer. However, when one of their own gets compared to National Socialists (and Hitler, specifically), even in genuine, reasonable ways, all of a sudden that comparison of "off limits" and anyone spouting it is a moron.

People glaze over the hitler comparisons because he's synonymous with genocide and the master race.
His regular politics are unknown by most people and that is why these comparisons are ill conceived.
Bush launched a war and invaded a country which is more likely why there were hitler comparisons but even they weren't as pervasive as this time.
 
There's too many pics of this to all be agent provocateurs which there are undoubtedly a few of.
And they get acknowledged and not asked to leave.

So that is your tactic now, simply raise the goalposts beyond any reasonable standard? That speaks volumes about your lack of intellectual integrity.

Astroturfing like that is what the left specializes in. The entire protests in front of the houses of AIG execs is precisely that. It is hardly out of the realm of possibility (as you wrongly infer) when Accorn can simply bus people in or unions can (and have onl mulitple occasions) send an army of people.

I would tell you to look up crashtheteaparty.org, but we all know you won't do that, or will simply try to find some other means to dismiss it.

The fact is, what you said was a lie and you are now attempting to defend that lie through equally dishonest means.
 
His regular politics are unknown by most people and that is why these comparisons are ill conceived.

So we shouldn't learn from history? People are ignorant so we shouldn't try to educate them?

even they weren't as pervasive as this time.

Oh, they were much more pervasive. Enough so that it became common place. However, the MSM didn't feel the need to get all outraged about it as they do with Obama. In fact they were even engaging in the comparison with Bush at times.

Just because the media coverage was difference does not, in any way, mean that it wasn't as pervasive.
 
Only one of the three things you are accusing me of is even close to what I am saying. The others are misleading lies. Typical for you.
To make them look ridiculous? Infiltrating and smearing the tea parties by leftist has been documented to happen and has happened with with regards to the Nazi stuff.

However, I was specifically referring to LaRouchehttp://www.larouchepac.com/ Democrats

shaggy - I was trying to guess - I put out 3 possibilities and lo and behold I was right!!!!

We have a winner - #2

2. That it was the left that really drew the mustaches on the posters of Obama, and that the left infiltrated those groups (tea party) to make the right look ridiculous.

So, who knows about making the tea party look ridiculous - but we are going with the left is the cause behind the posters.... And certainly with some, the LaRouche PAC is where they were downloaded from.

I have no idea of who is carrying those signs - you can download them - I can download them - any one who owns a tea bag can download one.

Why create your own poster, when one is so readily available?

But, I would imagine at least a few of those protesters are LaRouche followers... maybe because they knew they would get a little exposure.

However, this goes back to my supposition that the socialist - or extreme left ain't too happy with Obama. And boy, oh boy, LaRouche is wayyyyyy left. Although he could be right - homophobic, anti semitic, but, those things change daily as well... Well, how about a wingless nut... I think that best describes LaRouche.

What exactly does the LaRouche PAC try to achieve... well one tidy tidbit is...
"a just new world economic order"​
Guess why they are mad at Obama - because he isn't trying to achieve point 1 - "a just new world economic order". And he isn't fighting the British (yes this is true - they hate the unholy alliances between the Brits and the USA) and he is taking money away from NASA, he didn't push universal healthcare, oh, there is a whole wacky list like this. You guys have Alex Jones, we have Lyndon LaRouche...

As I said, they could be LaRouche followers at the actual tea party events., however the LaRouche bunch certainly would feel out of place at any tea party gathering - they are for socialism, big unions, universal healthcare - I guess they just wouldn't clap when S Palin came on stage. :)

But, they did just win a primary in Texas - of all places...

They are certifiable.... Cultists actually...

But, once again - it doesn't really matter where the signs were downloaded from - it is who is carrying them.

And I have this odd feeling that many tea party people could be carrying LaRouche signs and not have a clue on who LaRouche is.

Oh, you can tell Foss it is safe to come out and play - I am gone for a week...;)
 
So we shouldn't learn from history? People are ignorant so we shouldn't try to educate them?

The general population is notoriously uninterested in history.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
As an example many americans can hardly find their own state on a map never mind having an interest in the rest of the world.
We live in a soundbite culture.
When someone says hitler, genocide comes to mind.
The rest of it with national socialism not so much.
Thoughtful hitler discussions and comparisons are better suited to colleges and universities.
People who have some clue generally think of hitler as a monster first and explaining why Obama's policies have some similarities to national socialism gets lost in their minds.
Remember we're generally dealing with people who have a 100 iq or less.
 
So, who knows about making the tea party look ridiculous - but we are going with the left is the cause behind the posters.... And certainly with some, the LaRouche PAC is where they were downloaded from.

I have no idea of who is carrying those signs - you can download them - I can download them - any one who owns a tea bag can download one.

So that is the angle you are going with now? Muddy the waters so Democrats can't be identified with this?

Ever the propagandist.

And I have this odd feeling that many tea party people could be carrying LaRouche signs and not have a clue on who LaRouche is.

And I have an odd feeling that you are intentionally misleading. Again.
 
So we continue to pander to the lowest common denominator?
And are people uninterested in history, or historic comparisons, really sitting down to listen to Newt Gingrich speak?

It's not like Ryan Seacrest or Kanye West made the statement.
 
Absurd

I wade through this and come to one conclusion---
Left=drivel

And regarding the try at erudition in the header, you can't even spell. Since the Latin is Reductio Ad Absurdum you'd have been better off if you'd have made it 'Hitlerdum' instead of your 'Hitlerlum' attempt.

KS
 
I wade through this and come to one conclusion---
Left=drivel

And regarding the try at erudition in the header, you can't even spell. Since the Latin is Reductio Ad Absurdum you'd have been better off if you'd have made it 'Hitlerdum' instead of your 'Hitlerlum' attempt.

KS

I didn't make up the title.
You're not paying attention again.
If you click on the link you'de see that and not embarass yourself.
 
You or someone else, the observation remains the same. Drivel is still drivel and the sciolism is still obvious. Shag or others formally learned in debate would probably point out your use of a red herring.
KS
 

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