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JohnnyBz00LS

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Posted on Tue, Nov. 08, 2005

Bush defends detention of suspects, balks at torture ban

By Deb Riechmann

Associated Press


PANAMA CITY, Panama – President Bush on Monday defended U.S. interrogation practices and called the treatment of terrorism suspects lawful.

“We do not torture,” Bush declared in response to reports of secret CIA prisons overseas. Bush supported an effort spearheaded by Vice President Cheney to block or modify a proposed Senate-passed ban on torture.

“We’re working with Congress to make sure that as we go forward, we make it possible, more possible, to do our job,” Bush said. “There’s an enemy that lurks and plots and plans and wants to hurt America again. And so, you bet we will aggressively pursue them. But we will do so under the law.”

Cheney is seeking to persuade Congress to exempt the Central Intelligence Agency from the proposed torture ban if one is passed by both chambers.

Bush spoke at a news conference with Panamanian President Martin Torrijos on the same day the U.S. Supreme Court agreed to consider a challenge to the administration’s military tribunals for foreign terror suspects.

Since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, U.S. military forces have held hundreds of suspects at known installations outside the United States, including at the Guantanamo Bay naval base.

Bush was asked about reports that the CIA was separately maintaining secret prisons in eastern Europe and Asia to interrogate al-Qaida suspects – and demands by the International Red Cross for access to them.

Without confirming or denying the existence of such prisons, Bush said, “Our country is at war, and our government has the obligation to protect the American people.”

He pointedly noted that Congress shares that responsibility with the administration.

“We are finding terrorists and bringing them to justice. We are gathering information about where the terrorists may be hiding. We are trying to disrupt their plots and plans. Anything we do ... to that end in this effort, any activity we conduct, is within the law. We do not torture,” Bush said.

In Washington, Senate Democrats pressed for the creation of an independent commission to investigate detainee abuse. They hope to attach the proposal to a defense bill the Senate is considering this week.

Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan, the senior Democrat on the Armed Services Committee, said there are areas that have not been reviewed, such as the CIA’s interrogation of prisoners and the exporting of prisoners to countries that engage in torture.
 
Is it right to torture? No. Is it necessary to torture? Yes. If we want to stay alive it is.
 
Then we should NEVER make it public policy, NO EXCEPTIONS!! Then if it truly becomes "necessary", do it behind closed doors amongst only those who have classified clearances to do so. "Plausable deniability".
 
I would say torture is more 'necessary' now than at any time in history. We face a different enemy. They use different tactics than in the past. They use different weapons. Satellites and such are not effective on combating this enemy. The ONLY way to defend ourselves is to stop them BEFORE they cause the harm. The ONLY way you can STOP them is to know who they are and what they PLAN to do. Torture is about the only way to get that intel. I am not saying cruel torture. There are plenty of effective ways to torture without inflicting great bodily harm. Heck, just ask my wife.:rolleyes:
 
How can we make it policy with the intention of breaking that law?
See, unlike those third world and socialist countries you may aspire us to become, America has a moral obligation to abide by it's laws.

The effectiveness of torture isn't an issue. I don't want to see it taken off the table. And I don't want the already emboldened terrorist to be any more confident they won't be tortured when interegated in the future. There is a value in the uncertainty.

In addition, I don't like the wording of the definition of torture. To the liberals, make a person stand up, or sleep with the lights on, constitutes torture. Pulling out finger nails, bursting ear drums- these are torture. Making a person sit in a warm room...not torture.
 
JohnnyBz00LS said:
Then we should NEVER make it public policy, NO EXCEPTIONS!! Then if it truly becomes "necessary", do it behind closed doors amongst only those who have classified clearances to do so. "Plausable deniability".

It WAS behind closed doors. At least until some low-level pond scum leaked it to the low-life pond scum Washington Post.
 
fossten said:
It WAS behind closed doors. At least until some low-level pond scum leaked it to the low-life pond scum Washington Post.

This was a matter of public record fossten. Cheney is seeking this special exemption in the congress which is all a matter of public record
 
I don't see how America can set an example of freedom and civility for the entire world if torture is now ok. If we're in Iraq to free them from oppression and torture, which Saddam used very effectively to ensure obedience from his people, we need to be the example and lead by example.

There’s plenty of footage of Bush denouncing Saddam for brutalizing and torturing his people. Now the world learns we are torturing people and trying to make exemptions to make it lawful to do so. Just doesn’t go well.
 
Ugh. I feel like I'm standing hip-deep in liberal, hand-wringing 5H!7.

edit
 
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Hey, If you don't feel like America should lead by example, thats fine, disagree and say you disagree.
 
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fossten said:
Ugh. I feel like I'm standing hip-deep in liberal, hand-wringing 5H!7.

Mindless conservative personal attack.
 
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If you a captured Al-Queda operative has the information available to prevent an attack that may cost hundreds of lives, do you want him to fear torture?

If you could prevent the murder of a child by blasting a terrorist in the ear with a high pressure hose, would you do it?

And those are the extremes. When torture is mentioned, they include things like forcing a guy to stay up, or sleep with the lights on, or to listen to bad music, or to sit in a hot room.... Are these "too" extreme for you also?
 
MonsterMark, you didn't have to edit out Fossten's 'insult'. I can shrug it off easily. No worries here in that department.
 

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