Open discussion---comment---rant

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cammerfe

Dedicated LVC Member
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Your replies are welcome.

I have noticed an alarming trend from some of the newer members to diss the cars that bring us here---and to perpetuate myths that simply don't apply.

To speak first of the dissing---If you have nothing good to say about the LS platform---go somewhere else. Sarcastic comments may let you blow off a little steam but do nothing to advance this forum.

I'll come back and address the myths later today. Right now I have errands to run.

KS
 
cammerfe said:
Your replies are welcome.

I have noticed an alarming trend from some of the newer members to diss the cars that bring us here---and to perpetuate myths that simply don't apply.

To speak first of the dissing---If you have nothing good to say about the LS platform---go somewhere else. Sarcastic comments may let you blow off a little steam but do nothing to advance this forum.

I'll come back and address the myths later today. Right now I have errands to run.

KS
Click to expand...

Agreed. It's as if every LS that left the factory was a lemon. And that is the reason it was discontinued. Neither is correct.
 
but what do you mean i have to do general maintenance on a $39k luxury car!
 
Great thread! I hear every one of you! People forget that every single make and model has known issues, and you get these people who buy these cars like 10 years old for like $6,000 and think they can do $6,000 car maintenance on them and expect to run them into the ground like a Buick. I like to say, if you can't afford to buy it new, then don't expect to be able to pay for the proper care and maintenance!
 
WOW.

It's not a myth that some years of the LS require more maintenance and attention than comparable cars. If anything, the resale value can attest to this..

However this is a public forum, I think we all have to right to say what we want regardless if it's good or bad. I would hate to come to the point where every negative aspect of a car must be censored. If you don't like something just ignore it, accept it, lie to yourself. Whatever makes you feel better.
 
stugots said:
... I would hate to come to the point where every negative aspect of a car must be censored. If you don't like something just ignore it, accept it, lie to yourself. Whatever makes you feel better.
Click to expand...

Not censoring, there's just no point in the bashing.
 
joegr said:
Not censoring, there's just no point in the bashing.
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Would agree, but most of what I've seen recently I wouldn't consider bashing. Everyone has a right to their opinion though.
 
stugots said:
WOW.

It's not a myth that some years of the LS require more maintenance and attention than comparable cars. If anything, the resale value can attest to this.......
Click to expand...

It is a myth. The ONLY recall on the LS was for a possibly incorrectly torqued lower ball joint (TSBs aren't ANYTHING like a recall; they're just an advisory to the technicians). The LS doesn't require any more maintenance than any other $45K+ (mine stickered closer to $50K) luxury car. Like eots said, if one can't afford the car new, one can't afford the upkeep on the car used. I can easily go get a used Ferrari..... I could NEVER afford the upkeep ($800 oil changes, $1500 brake changes, etc.)!!

The reason the LS is cheap used is because of its orphan car status. There were a TOTAL of less than 290K LSes produced in the 6 1/2 years of production. Ford produces more Mustangs in a SINGLE YEAR!!!! Lincoln couldn't afford to sell the LS for enough to recover development costs and was doomed when European sales were axed. Lincoln left the LS to die as all the dealers wanted was to sell Land Yachts to blue hairs.
 
LS4me said:
It is a myth. The ONLY recall on the LS was for a possibly incorrectly torqued lower ball joint (TSBs aren't ANYTHING like a recall; they're just an advisory to the technicians). The LS doesn't require any more maintenance than any other $45K+ (mine stickered closer to $50K) luxury car. Like eots said, if one can't afford the car new, one can't afford the upkeep on the car used. I can easily go get a used Ferrari..... I could NEVER afford the upkeep ($800 oil changes, $1500 brake changes, etc.)!!

The reason the LS is cheap used is because of its orphan car status. There were a TOTAL of less than 290K LSes produced in the 6 1/2 years of production. Ford produces more Mustangs in a SINGLE YEAR!!!! Lincoln couldn't afford to sell the LS for enough to recover development costs and was doomed when European sales were axed. Lincoln left the LS to die as all the dealers wanted was to sell Land Yachts to blue hairs.
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Yes I've seen your speech on here many many times. I never said anything about production numbers or any of that and I'm fully aware of the history. While I could argue the reliability of some years of the ls.. I'll let it do the talking.
 
stugots said:
Yes I've seen your speech on here many many times. I never said anything about production numbers or any of that and I'm fully aware of the history. While I could argue the reliability of some years of the ls.. I'll let it do the talking.
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Well, I still have a 2000 in the family. My daughter has it with over 185K miles. I'll let that speak for itself.....
 
LS4me said:
Well, I still have a 2000 in the family. My daughter has it with over 185K miles. I'll let that speak for itself.....
Click to expand...

and according to the TV, over 80% of every camry ever built is still on the road

I also had a 94 Mark VIII that made it to 189,000 before I ended giving up on repairing it, doesn't make it a reliable car, it just means that i have the ability to take care of my stuff...





while I don't think there needs to be any bashing (it is after all a very well designed (but getting to be) older car...) there is plenty to complain about. lets face it, jags have never been known for their reliability, and we got the joys of having one of the least reliable cars to have been cross bred with.

the biggest problem is that it is a dead line of car, where most forums always have a new model coming out, ours just keeps getting older and older. sadly its to the point now (with a rare exception) where almost every person that is buying these cars are buying old worn out models (hell even the few for sale with low miles are still old enough to start needing some major maintenance cough cough plastic cooling parts* cough) and well for the most part, a lot of them are right, they bought a piece of sh!t car that is going to cost them more in repairs than they paid for the car. what all these newer guys need to realize is that this is not a problem with the LS itself, but more of a problem with buying ANY car for a few thousand that is not a simple honda with nothing on it to break!
 
There are always those who aren't happy unless they're bitching or running something down.

When I spoke of myths, I was thinking primarily of the comment, regularly offered, that there's no way to improve the power significantly because of the design being 'maxed-out' in some fashion or other. I'd note that later versions of the AJ engine, particularly those used in the Land Rover and Aston Martin offer about 500 horsepower. Normal hot-rodding techniques, well-known since flathead days, will give excellent results. (Since you can't buy parts to do so at the local Auto Zone you will have to know what you're doing.)

Another myth is the impossibility of installing into an LS an AJ engine from another car line. I won't go into the details here but it's really not much more complicated than other engine swaps. In order to use the original LS electronics it will simplify to use some external parts from your original powerplant. (But my Jag engine harness will plug right into the receptacle on the lower passenger firewall on my '02 LS).

Your comments are welcome.

KS
 
Yep, agreed and I'm a brand new user, I was almost scared off from buying the LS after lurking here for a month or so before I found one but decided to pick it up anyway. It was such a good deal. I picked up mine in a lien sale for 1800 bucks, 2000 LS V8 with 120k. I bought it in California to use as a winter car here in Rochester, NY. I immediately put $900 into it before leaving California, coils, window regulator, and transmission solenoids, so $2700 for what I consider a great car.

My previous car was also a very old over $40k car (1998 Audi A6 I purchased for $4k with 170k miles) and it also needed some substantial maintenance, I think I ended up spending over 3k on maintenance for that car in the 35,000 miles I drove it.

Nothing better than spending 10% of sticker for a car but if you think you can spend nothing on it I think you might be just wishful thinking.

Rick
 
cammerfe said:
There are always those who aren't happy unless they're bitching or running something down.

When I spoke of myths, I was thinking primarily of the comment, regularly offered, that there's no way to improve the power significantly because of the design being 'maxed-out' in some fashion or other. I'd note that later versions of the AJ engine, particularly those used in the Land Rover and Aston Martin offer about 500 horsepower. Normal hot-rodding techniques, well-known since flathead days, will give excellent results. (Since you can't buy parts to do so at the local Auto Zone you will have to know what you're doing.)

Another myth is the impossibility of installing into an LS an AJ engine from another car line. I won't go into the details here but it's really not much more complicated than other engine swaps. In order to use the original LS electronics it will simplify to use some external parts from your original powerplant. (But my Jag engine harness will plug right into the receptacle on the lower passenger firewall on my '02 LS).

Your comments are welcome.

KS
Click to expand...

Don't think it's a matter of "if it can be done", more of "if it's worth it". The money to reward ratio just isn't there.
 
I suppose 'worth' is in the eye of the beholder.

I bought my '02 Sport V8 new. Well actually I leased it for the first two years but then bought it at the end of the lease. I suppose I've put about $5K into it for such things as the roll cage, the belly pan, and the power improvements. A bit over 3K was the cost of the cage alone.

For that money I have had an excellent daily driver for the past 12 years and to top it off I've set four National Land Speed records in ECTA racing. I still hold the fastest one.

The return on the dollars spent in the last 12 years and 152K miles is far beyond any comparable expenditure I've made. And I'm not yet done.

KS
 
stugots said:
Don't think it's a matter of "if it can be done", more of "if it's worth it". The money to reward ratio just isn't there.
Click to expand...

In my opinion, It's more then the money to reward ratio. These days members like Cammerfe who bought their LS new are very rare. The average LVC member is roughly a ~3rd/4th owner of their LS. And while there is nothing wrong with that, the demographic the depreciated values attract often times can barely afford the upkeep let alone to drop serious money on custom modifications.
 
Bullschmidt said:
In my opinion, It's more then the money to reward ratio. These days members like Cammerfe who bought their LS new are very rare. The average LVC member is roughly a ~3rd/4th owner of their LS. And while there is nothing wrong with that, the demographic the depreciated values attract often times can barely afford the upkeep let alone to drop serious money on custom modifications.
Click to expand...

Another issue with buying new instead of used is this. I bought mine new. I experienced six or so nearly to completely trouble free years before the first repairs on each. I repair problems as they come up and it doesn't seem too bad. If instead I were to go buy one used with none of the repairs done along the way, I can see how it would seem to be a much less reliable car than it has been.
 
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