Pelosi: Jail time “very fair” for failing to buy your patriotic ObamaCare coverage

fossten

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Nowhere does the Constitution give the government the authority to FORCE citizens to buy anything. This is tyranny, plain and simple, folks.

We have a feral government. Welcome to 17th Century England.

Link to video
 
Ironically you'de be covered for healthcare while in jail :p
 
I wonder who they would send to jail. If my wife and I both work and we don't carry the ($15,000 annual premium) insurance, and we don't pay the penalty, do we both go to jail?
 
I wonder who they would send to jail. If my wife and I both work and we don't carry the ($15,000 annual premium) insurance, and we don't pay the penalty, do we both go to jail?

I don't think it will come to pass that the government would actually throw someone in jail over this.
They're just trying to cow people with a stick.
 
I don't think it will come to pass that the government would actually throw someone in jail over this.
They're just trying to cow people with a stick.
Think again. They're going to treat it like tax evasion. Has anyone ever been imprisoned (or shot) for not paying taxes?

And your second sentence is very telling. You don't think 'trying to cow people' (intimidation) is tyranny?

The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. -Ayn Rand
 
Here is the beginning of the Wiki for Debtor Prison:

Medieval Europe
During Europe’s Middle Ages, debtors, both men and women, were locked up together in a single large cell, until their families paid their debt.[2] Debt prisoners often died of disease contracted from other debt prisoners. Conditions included starvation and abuse from other prisoners. If the father of a family was imprisoned for debt, the family business often suffered while the mother and children fell into poverty. Unable to pay the debt, the father often remained in debtors’ prison for many years. Some debt prisoners were released to become serfs or indentured servants (debt bondage) until they paid off their debt in labor.
 
Think again. They're going to treat it like tax evasion. Has anyone ever been imprisoned (or shot) for not paying taxes?

And your second sentence is very telling. You don't think 'trying to cow people' (intimidation) is tyranny?

Holding someone in jail would probably cost more than just somehow giving them the money for the premium through some legislative slight of hand sophistry.

It would be a pr fiasco to actually put someone in jail.
It would give faces and stories to rally around.
Sarah would run with it.



It's a trial balloon.
Lets see how long it takes to be shot down or rendered toothless.

I don't know if you ever read a book called "Winning Through Intimidation"
but it would fit in well with Ayn Rand's philosophies.

Amazon.com: Winning Through Intimidation (9780449207864): Robert J. Ringer: Books

25 of 25 people found the following review helpful:
An excellent book with a misleading title, April 1, 2002
By Daryl R. Gibson "Writer, Editor, Technology Geek" (Las Vegas, NV USA) - See all my reviews


Some potential readers of this excellent book (I first read it in
1976) will, as Ringer says, come away thinking they've just read a book about how to sell real estate. Others will never read the book since they will be turned off by the title.
This book is a book about how to deal with life: rationally, reasonably, and dynamically. It's a book about dealing with life's challenges and problems, and most importantly, about how to find yourself in the business world.

All these years later, I still find myself referring to one of Ringer's theories, and applying them in the everyday business world. They are as true today as they ever were.

Highly recommended.
 
Holding someone in jail would probably cost more than just somehow giving them the money for the premium through some legislative slight of hand sophistry.
The entire bill is a sham, designed to take over the health care industry, not to insure people. The bill still leaves millions uninsured.

You could insure all the uninsured in this country for about $40 billion. So why a $1 trillion bill? You think costs matter to this bunch? That's naive.

It would be a pr fiasco to actually put someone in jail.
It would give faces and stories to rally around.
Sarah would run with it.
Nope. The media would be compliant and label them 'tax evaders' or 'terrorists' or 'child molesters.' Remember David Koresh?

You think PR matters to this bunch? They just want it passed, and the hell with the majority of Americans who DO NOT WANT THIS BILL. Pelosi has willingly risked her Speakership by forcing the bluedogs to vote for this bill, knowing they might lose their seats in 2010. Get it through your skull - she doesn't care.

Besides, they can use ACORN to secure the 'votes' they need. They don't need voters.

It's a trial balloon.
Lets see how long it takes to be shot down or rendered toothless.
THE. BILL. PASSED. THE. HOUSE. Try and keep up.
 
Will Reid Tax the Rich?The Senate majority leader develops a case of House envy.

By Timothy NoahPosted Thursday, Nov. 12, 2009, at 6:13 PM ET

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is reportedly reconsidering tax options for health care reform. According to the Associated Press, Reid is thinking about raising the part of the payroll tax that pays for Medicare on families whose incomes exceed $250,000, the magic number below which President Obama has promised not to raise taxes. According to Bloomberg, Reid is also considering an alternative proposal that, rather than raise the Medicare tax, would apply it to investment income (currently exempt) for families earning more than $250,000.
Apparently Reid has woken up to the fact that the Senate finance committee's excise tax on so-called "Cadillac" health insurance plans (i.e., family plans worth more than $21,000) has a couple of serious drawbacks. These should be familiar to regular readers of this column:
● It raises only $201 billion over 10 years. That's less than half the $460 billion that the House bill would raise through a 5.4 percent surtax on incomes above $500,000 for individuals and $1 million for families.
● The finance committee—at the prodding of Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va.—acknowledged that many people have expensive health insurance not because they're pampered by their bosses but because their jobs put them at higher risk of physical injury. Consequently, it raised the threshold for the untaxed portion of these people's plans by $5,000. But the committee was pretty stingy in defining what these high-risk professions were. The threshold was raised for law enforcement, firefighting, rescue work, ambulance services, construction, mining, agriculture, forestry, and fishing. It was not raised for anyone who works in heavy manufacturing. If this tax is to be maintained in the final bill, it will have to be whittled down further. According to the Dow Jones newswire, Reid has already raised the family threshold by $2,000 for everybody.

Policy wonks tout the Cadillac-plan excise tax—which taxes every dollar above the designated value ($21,000 under the finance committee bill, $23,000 under Reid) at a hefty 40 percent—mainly as measure to reduce medical spending. The thinking goes that since insurers really won't want to pay that 40 percent tax (or pass it along to their customers), they'll work very hard to keep their policies below the threshold. But to whatever extent that proves true, the tax's value as a revenue-raiser will be diminished. If all insurerskeep the value of their policies below the threshold, the tax will raise no money at all.
And so it's back to the drawing board. The two Medicare taxes under consideration are a bit more progressive than the Cadillac-plan excise tax. The current Medicare tax is 2.9 percent, of which half is paid by the employer and half by the employee. It is therefore not progressive at all—rich and poor pay the same percentage—though not outright regressive, as is the Social Security part of the payroll tax, which stops at incomes above $106,800.* It isn't known how high Reid is considering raising the Medicare tax, but Citizens for Tax Justice, a labor-affiliated nonprofit, has calculated that raising the employee half from 1.45 percent to 2.5 percent for families earning more than $250,000 would raise $7.2 billion in 2012, the year the tax would likely take effect.
The second tax under consideration would keep the Medicare tax at 1.45 percent for employers and employees but would subject investment income to the tax for families earning more than $250,000. According to Bloomberg, White House Budget Director Peter Orszag says this proposal is the one that's "in play." One likely reason is that it's a little harder for opponents to peg it as a tax increase because it isn't a rate increase. Another likely reason is that it raises a lot more money: $19 billion in 2012, according to Citizens for Tax Justice, and $160 billion through 2019.
Raising or (ahem) extending the Medicare tax is not without peril. With many senior citizens already up in arms about health reform's proposed cuts to the Medicare program, adding a tax-rate increase that has the word Medicare in it might pour gasoline on the fire, even if the tax increase doesn't target the elderly. (Indeed, it would largely exempt them, since a high proportion of the elderly are retired, and pensions would be exempt.) Choosing the Medicare tax on investment income instead would likely rile the elderly still further because (as Citizens for Tax Justice notes scrupulously) "people age 65 and older are more likely to have unearned income that would be newly subject to the Medicare tax." On the other hand, the group observes, elderly people earning more than $250,000 annually, most if not all of it through their investments, aren't exactly poor.
A wiser course would be simply to adopt the House's millionaire tax. Senate moderates who sputter about "class warfare" might perhaps be reminded that over the past 30 years this group saw its inflation-adjusted income increase by 226 percent while the share of its income that it paid in taxes fell from 37 percent to 31 percent. If that doesn't do the job, Reid could promise to maintain the tax on Cadillac health plans, too—for a lot of moderates it's a badge of seriousness—but if he does so he must the threshold for a lot more professions. Universal health insurance ain't free.
Update, 8:50 p.m.: The Wall Street Journal reports that the Medicare-tax increase Reid is considering for incomes above $250,000 is not to 2.5 percent, as contemplated by Citizens For Tax Justice, but to 1.75 percent.
 
From the Cartoonists

Lets see what the senate does before we draw our conclusions.

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