r1 concepts rotors reliability

[jdmans101]

Im in the business for some new rotors now and seeing that many of you talk about r1 I was considering getting some.

I have 3 options that I like. All of them are the set of 4 and all pads included. I do need some new pad so figured I would buy the set seeing that they are ceramic pads. Anyone have any review on how well the pads from r1 is, or should I just buy the rotors and get the pads somewhere else?

I really like the look of the drill/sloted rotors and these were my first choice, but after reading all the negative things said about cracking and what not I may not pull the trigger on them so fast. Has anyone got drilled/sloted rotors from r1 and had them on long term, if so how well are they holding up? This is my dd so I don't want to risk anything, but the quality looks good from r1 and I dont take the ls to the track or drive it hard. Would slotted be a better choice? i figure since I have to replace them anyways I mind as well upgrade other than getting blanks.

here's the ones I was looking at.

*drilled/slotted*
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ELIN...n|Model:LS&hash=item519b24b11a#ht_3877wt_1165

*slotted only*
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ELIN...n|Model:LS&hash=item519b25dd5f#ht_3878wt_1165

*blanks*
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ELIN...n|Model:LS&hash=item56464eaa7c#ht_3415wt_1165

 

[BlackLS06]

I have the same question....i saw these http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/00-0...its=Make:Lincoln|Model:LS&hash=item43aa025d71

And then theres the rotorpros package which i like a lot because of the black painted center plus the lines for $150 more.

 

[jdmans101]

I have the same question....i saw these http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/00-0...its=Make:Lincoln|Model:LS&hash=item43aa025d71

And then theres the rotorpros package which i like a lot because of the black painted center plus the lines for $150 more.

those ones seem a bit cheap, idk about how good they are lol. I'd rather spend more on the better one. I was looking at rotorpros too, just have to many options

 

[Thirdworlddoug]

ive had slotted rotors for a while and never had a problem with them. I have heard of drilled rotors crack...

 

[Alax7]

I have the same question....i saw these http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/00-0...its=Make:Lincoln|Model:LS&hash=item43aa025d71

And then theres the rotorpros package which i like a lot because of the black painted center plus the lines for $150 more.

It was pretty pointless to get them painted. I installed mine and took the wheels off the next day to chech out a brake issue and the paint had come off where the wheels make contact.

 

[TooManyToys]

I’ve left this subject alone for the time I’ve visited this site, but maybe it’s time.

The most important characteristics of a brake rotor are the quality of the casting and the quality of the machining. As far as the casting goes, you need good dispersion within the iron, no core sifts in the vanes which leads to inconsistent heating and hot spotting (pulsation), and proper cooling post pour to also avoid the later development of hard spotting. As far as machining, the rubbing surfaces need to be relatively smooth, around 50 micro-inch, the rubbing surfaces as parallel as possible, and the relationship between the hub mounting surface and rubbing surfaces to be parallel.

Without a lot of expensive measuring equipment and casting analysis, the only thing you have to go on is cost and the history of others. Rotor “warping” isn’t so much about the rotors moving around as the installed runout. And that you will never know unless you index the rotors during install. Indexing involves measuring the rubbing surface runout with the rotors tightened down and possibly indexing the rotor one stud at a time until it meets the service manual runout spec or better. High runouts will cause thickness variation (non-parallel rubbing surfaces) that will manifest as pulsation and hard spotting as well.

Drilling rotors is a crack waiting to happen. Slots are beneficial under two situations. The first is wet rotor brake application when the water is wiped from the mating surfaces under low-pressure applications. If the brake pressure is high, there is no benefit. The second situation is degassing IF there is a good amount of high heat decomposition of the friction material organics.

Every friction material compound is going to have a different temperature knee when and if the organics overwhelm the braking event. Some is based on the type of phenolic resin and organic constituents or the quantity of organics in the compound. Unless you are using a sintered metallic compound, there will be organics.

Ceramic type pads refer to the type of fiber reinforcement used in the compound. Usually Potassium titanate fiber if the product is expensive, otherwise some aftermarket “ceramics” just use a slight ceramic component in a semi-metallic compound to classify it as a “wow” product.

High organic compounds are usually a lower cost product. As you get more into the metallic and ceramic types of friction materials, price goes up. Price also goes up depending on the extent of a materials post baking cycle, when friction is placed into an over after being pressed to further cure and heat treat the compound. Nothing takes the place of how a friction material changes during braking events, however, as the boundary layer at the friction material and rotor rubbing surface exceeds a few thousand degrees at the molecular level. It’s this carbonization of the friction material ingredients that is the true “friction material”, not the composite itself.

Where is this leading? Most friction materials that we would classify as performance materials don’t degas until temperatures are exceeding 800-900°F, rarely seen in street driving unless you are aggressive in the mountains. So if you are using a performance pad the use of slots really is not necessary. It is better to invest the money in a quality smooth surface rotor then spend the money that slotting costs.

The company I worked for was a supplier of friction material on the DEW98 chassis and LA city traffic was one of the tests we performed. With an LS fully loaded to GVW, through the city and canyons of LA (in a spirited manner) our tests never exceeded 600°F, and only occasional went over 500°F in certain sections.

 

[Ancillery]

Awesome info, thanks!

 

[jmtiseo]

Thank you sir for giving an explained explanation behind all this. I'm saying this for reasons that might not be justified.

 

[BlackLS06]

Well all I know is plenty of vehicles come with drilled rotors stock from the factory such as Ferrari, Porsche, AMG, and the list goes on.

The rotorpros rotors are made by centric and they're made for many vehicles and have seen them used on plenty of forums.

 

[TooManyToys]

And the factory rotors are processed in a different manner then aftermarket rotors in order to relieve stress risers, otherwise you would be paying OE prices for the aftermarket prices.

Centric appears to do a better job then most providing a radius at the rubbing surface, but that goes away to some extend as the rotor wears down. Also people who do not really get rotors that hot tend to not develop cracks, but then the whole purpose of the holes or slots is not necessary anyway.

 

[jdmans101]

wow man, you really explained that very well! thanks. I was only considering sloted/drilled rotors for the look and wow factor when people look at my brakes, I know they really don't improve any performance under normal driving conditions. But I think I'm going to stay away from drilled ones and just get slotted.

 

[LeaSr77]

I have R1 Concepts drill and slotted rotors with the zinc coating but haven't put them on yet. They have been sitting in my garage for months. Just waiting to do my springs and shocks before I put them on. From some research that I did once, drill and slotted rotors usually crack when there is a lot of pressure on them. One of the examples that was used in the material that I was reading was on a truck towing a load.

 

[TooManyToys]

It really tends to be more of a thermal issue, and trucks, especially with a trailer that doesn't have brakes working for it's additional load will cause havoc.

Some examples of drilled from mountain or autocross workloads. Didn't matter if they were chamfered or not:

Slotted rotors can develop stress risers too:

Even non-dressed rotors will have issues with enough thermal strain:

The common denominator in all of these examples if you look closely at the rubbing surface is they have been thermally worked!

 

[mespock]

R1 use to sell here on LVC ... and offered some good deal. I have their rotors on 2 of my cars. Very good quality from my experience. I'll buy from them again next time I need rotors.

 

[jdmans101]

them are some pretty scary pictures and why I am now staying away from drilled rotors now... I understand that under any situation any rotor no mater what modification has been done can fail, but drilling them just makes it more pron to happen. Thanks for your input.

 

[TooManyToys]

Before I scare you away too much, let me say again that even with drilled rotors if the heat is not extensive they may not crack, especially if chamfered. All those examples have bluing and thermal spotting or bands within the rubbing surface. And while cracked, none had a catastrophic failure before the cracking was noticed.

Slotted rotors have less of a tendency to develop cracks while still giving a "performance" look to a vehicle if you are looking for some "wow".

 

[BlackLS06]

Seeing as we don't tow with the ls it shouldint be an issue.