Slight shudder on the 1-2 shift?

[Dominus]

Alright ladies and gentlemen. I came across what was claimed to be one of the nicest LSCs left out there, but it has a bit of an illness. When I drove the car, there was a slight shuddering on the shift from first to second. Upon further inspection, I found both the brake fluid and the transmission fluid to be dirty. The transmission fluid smelled burnt.

Now, this is a no-brainer. The transmission is obviously going to need some type of repair in the future, but this is more of a personal question: Should I ask the seller to chop off the price because the car will need repair, or should I just skip the whole thing altogether?

I also noticed that the car has an aftermarket stereo, which is NEVER a good sign for a car. Otherwise, the car tested and inspected fine.

 

[JoeyLincolnMK8]

what year is the LSC and how many miles does it have?

 

[Dominus]

1998 Black on Black LSC, 60k miles.

 

[JoeyLincolnMK8]

hmm.... well that year has the upgraded 1-2 shift springs in the tranny. so it might be something else like torque converter maybe? but i would just do a complete flush of the the tranny fluid and of course use Mercon V.

 

[67Continental]

I also noticed that the car has an aftermarket stereo, which is NEVER a good sign for a car. Otherwise, the car tested and inspected fine.

why is that never a good sign for a car? My car when I bought it had a beautiful Eclipse system installed, far better than any stock car stereo. I don't understand your comment.

 

[Dominus]

why is that never a good sign for a car? My car when I bought it had a beautiful Eclipse system installed, far better than any stock car stereo. I don't understand your comment.

An untouched car is always far more likely to have been treated well than a car that was messed around with. A car that was simply driven lightly by an old man as his transportation is far more likely to be in good condition than a car that was somebody's toy.

It's a correlation I have seen in living proof many many times over the years. If the car has an aftermarket stereo in the dash, it almost always has signs of mistreatment on it. This car happens to have a transmission in poor shape, and a mirror that is oddly warped. Yes, the mirror is warped. Coincidence? I think not. These problems would not be out of place on a car with maybe 40k more miles, but 60k? Something ain't right here. It's obvious this car has never had a transmission service in its life.

I decided to pass this one over. A car as "well maintained" as the owner claims it was would at least have had a transmission service done to it. Hell, he should at least make the effort to have it serviced recently and lie to me about it so I would have at least seen some good colored fluid. He didn't even replace the mirror. So much for "well maintained".

This car seems more like a nice looking problem child somebody never loved, and is looking to get rid of, more than it does a well maintained car driven by a caring driver.

 

[Chaoticbastard]

I disagree with a car having an aftermarket stereo making it a problem child.My grandfather has a flip DVD MP3 Player in his Caddy.50K original and runs excellent.That doesnt make it a problem child.Even the elderly upgrade

 

[chris]

I Concur

I agree with Chaotic, All my cars are meticulously maintained. But with that being said I am a gadget nut. Remote starters, aftermarket stereo systems, custom exhaust etc, etc. My last car was a black 98 Crown Vic, always serviced on time or early with synthetic oil and mercon V was never ever dirty even in the middle of winter in RI. It had all of the above mention mods plus some I'm sure I forgot. But it wasn't abused or neglected, so mods are not a guarantee of misuse.

 

[Dominus]

Perhaps you both should actually read what I wrote. You're both disagreeing with something I never even said.

I never said that an aftermarket stereo was a guarantee of misuse. I said that it is more likely it was misused, and experience has shown me that this is most certainly true. Cars that have been treated to electronics upgrades and are in general good shape are in the minority.

 

[fossten]

An untouched car is always far more likely to have been treated well than a car that was messed around with. A car that was simply driven lightly by an old man as his transportation is far more likely to be in good condition than a car that was somebody's toy.

It's a correlation I have seen in living proof many many times over the years. If the car has an aftermarket stereo in the dash, it almost always has signs of mistreatment on it. This car happens to have a transmission in poor shape, and a mirror that is oddly warped. Yes, the mirror is warped. Coincidence? I think not. These problems would not be out of place on a car with maybe 40k more miles, but 60k? Something ain't right here. It's obvious this car has never had a transmission service in its life.

I decided to pass this one over. A car as "well maintained" as the owner claims it was would at least have had a transmission service done to it. Hell, he should at least make the effort to have it serviced recently and lie to me about it so I would have at least seen some good colored fluid. He didn't even replace the mirror. So much for "well maintained".

This car seems more like a nice looking problem child somebody never loved, and is looking to get rid of, more than it does a well maintained car driven by a caring driver.

Good decision. It might have been just fluid, but it could have been a TC which would have meant rebuilding the tranny.

 

[67Continental]

An untouched car is always far more likely to have been treated well than a car that was messed around with. A car that was simply driven lightly by an old man as his transportation is far more likely to be in good condition than a car that was somebody's toy.

It's a correlation I have seen in living proof many many times over the years. If the car has an aftermarket stereo in the dash, it almost always has signs of mistreatment on it. This car happens to have a transmission in poor shape, and a mirror that is oddly warped. Yes, the mirror is warped. Coincidence? I think not. These problems would not be out of place on a car with maybe 40k more miles, but 60k? Something ain't right here. It's obvious this car has never had a transmission service in its life.

I am going to have to completely disagree with you here. I have put 20k miles on my mark since I bought with the aftermarket stereo, and i have had to do nothing buy basic maintenance. The person who owned my car before me treated it very well. Honestly, I can't agree that the presence of an aftermarket stereo is indicative of anything other than an owner who enjoys quality music reproduction. I have put an aftermarket stereo in every car I have ever owned. In addition, I base my evaluation of how a car was treated on actual mechanical signs, such as fluid colours, belt condition, interior condition, smoothness of tranmission, idle, driveline noise, etc. Not what to me seems to be the "hocus pocus" of aftermarket stereos.

As for old men taking good care of cars, a lot of old men only drive their cars occasionally, once or twice a week, and these cars sit in garages, or in driveways, and rot. Do you think an old man regularly services his car? It's one of those myths like "lady driven" (again, lack of proper service intervals).

Finally, a quality stereo install is not "messing around" with a car. There are aftermarket pros who do their jobs very well. I guess a stainless steel exhaust system or higher quality non-stock tires would also qualify as "messing around" with a car.

Anyways, it;s all good - more cars for me!

 

[67Continental]

Perhaps you both should actually read what I wrote. You're both disagreeing with something I never even said.

I never said that an aftermarket stereo was a guarantee of misuse. I said that it is more likely it was misused, and experience has shown me that this is most certainly true. Cars that have been treated to electronics upgrades and are in general good shape are in the minority.

honestly, this is just your singular personal prejudice - I am sorry you have had bad experiences with aftermarket stereos but don't paint everything with the same brush.

 

[Dominus]

I am going to have to completely disagree with you here. I have put 20k miles on my mark since I bought with the aftermarket stereo, and i have had to do nothing buy basic maintenance.

Which is why I said likely, not GUARANTEED.

The person who owned my car before me treated it very well. Honestly, I can't agree that the presence of an aftermarket stereo is indicative of anything other than an owner who enjoys quality music reproduction. I have put an aftermarket stereo in every car I have ever owned.

Which is why I said likely, not GUARANTEED.

In addition, I base my evaluation of how a car was treated on actual mechanical signs, such as fluid colours, belt condition, interior condition, smoothness of tranmission, idle, driveline noise, etc. Not what to me seems to be the "hocus pocus" of aftermarket stereos.

Yeah, and cars with cheap aftermarket stereos tend to exhibit all of these problems in one way or another.

As for old men taking good care of cars, a lot of old men only drive their cars occasionally, once or twice a week, and these cars sit in garages, or in driveways, and rot. Do you think an old man regularly services his car? It's one of those myths like "lady driven" (again, lack of proper service intervals).

A car does not rot unless it sits still for a VERY LONG TIME.

Old men do service their cars more regularly. It's a statistic. Just like how we know that they vote more.

Finally, a quality stereo install is not "messing around" with a car. There are aftermarket pros who do their jobs very well. I guess a stainless steel exhaust system or higher quality non-stock tires would also qualify as "messing around" with a car.

Anyone installing a high-flow exhaust system on their car is probably planning on using it, which is why all of the greatest experts on any specific model of old car, including Ford, advises finding a car that has not been modified is such a way.

"Aftermrket pro" is a bit of an exaggeration. Becoming a stereo installer hardly requires an engineering degree, and I have seen some bad setups in my life. Most of them know very little about stereo equipment, hence the popularity of Sony Xplod and Bose equipment.

Anyways, it;s all good - more cars for me!

To each their own. I've purchased 8 vehicles in my life, and all are exceptional examples.

 

[Dominus]

honestly, this is just your singular personal prejudice -

2 car dealers in the family, 3 mechanics, and 2 electronics experts, but nice try anyway. Prejudice is a heavy word to be used in ignorance.

I am sorry you have had bad experiences with aftermarket stereos but don't paint everything with the same brush.

Multiple experiences from multiple parties> your singular experiences. I'm glad we could agree.

I didn't paint everything in the same light. I spoke of the majority, not the totality, but thanks once again for exaggerating what i said.

 

[torquemonkey]

I also noticed that the car has an aftermarket stereo, which is NEVER a good sign for a car. Otherwise, the car tested and inspected fine.

Good call, most people have either the "one dollar install" fire hazard or a friend or cousin that knows all about car stereo installation. Definitely one good rule of thumb to have, when purchasing a used car.

However the Lincoln and Cadillac crowd as owners tend to have the money to do the job right at a reputable shop or have the skills to do it right themselves. Whether it is a socioeconomic deal or a maturity issue, cars of these brands tend to have owners that take better care of their ride. Any change from factory design ought to be considered a red flag to question. Should you be satisfied by the answer, then by all means proceed.

My example of a red flag; A person selling a car w/ a performance tranny and a chip? The car was ragged on, low oil pressure, bad brakes and needs major maintenance. Who would upgrade a car and then sell it while it ran good with no issues? (Outside of monetary or loss of license issue) My personal VIII experience; the kid I bought my car from told me of the good maintenance he did. Lots of receipts from oil changes and He had a new alternator and a set of sub woofers installed. A new Alt? I found that the cigar lighter didn’t work, A/C kept blowing fuses. Whoever did the amp install had done a crappy job under the dash and kept shorting stuff out. Now why do you think he sold it?

 

[Dominus]

Good decision. It might have been just fluid, but it could have been a TC which would have meant rebuilding the tranny.

Thank you, fossten.

 

[Dominus]

Good call, most people have either the "one dollar install" fire hazard or a friend or cousin that knows all about car stereo installation. Definitely one good rule of thumb to have, when purchasing a used car.

However the Lincoln and Cadillac crowd as owners tend to have the money to do the job right at a reputable shop or have the skills to do it right themselves. Whether it is a socioeconomic deal or a maturity issue, cars of these brands tend to have owners that take better care of their ride. Any change from factory design ought to be considered a red flag to question. Should you be satisfied by the answer, then by all means proceed.

My example of a red flag; A person selling a car w/ a performance tranny and a chip? The car was ragged on, low oil pressure, bad brakes and needs major maintenance. Who would upgrade a car and then sell it while it ran good with no issues? (Outside of monetary or loss of license issue) My personal VIII experience; the kid I bought my car from told me of the good maintenance he did. Lots of receipts from oil changes and He had a new alternator and a set of sub woofers installed. A new Alt? I found that the cigar lighter didn’t work, A/C kept blowing fuses. Whoever did the amp install had done a crappy job under the dash and kept shorting stuff out. Now why do you think he sold it?

That's the single factor that makes things like this so important:

If it is so good, why sell it?

Also, everyone knows that you never get your money back on a part when you sell a part with a car. There's no KBB value for aftermarket stereo. Every person who ever traded a car into my uncle's lot who had a system worth having at all, removed it before they traded the car in. You only leave something behind if you really couldn't care about it. People will take their battery cables, change, lipstick, beads, CDs, 50 cent sunshades, steering wheel covers, plastic change holders, old air freshener, and just about anything when they sell their car. However, my uncle has a pile 2 feet high of "the club" in the corner of his service area. All left behind by their previous owners.

 

[67Continental]

2 car dealers in the family, 3 mechanics, and 2 electronics experts, but nice try anyway. Prejudice is a heavy word to be used in ignorance.

Multiple experiences from multiple parties> your singular experiences. I'm glad we could agree.

I didn't paint everything in the same light. I spoke of the majority, not the totality, but thanks once again for exaggerating what i said.

my singular experiences? You've bought 8 cars....no clue how old you are, but i'm only 25 and i've bought well more cars than you.....Again with making assumptions....I am glad you have car dealers and mechanics in the family, I don't see what that proves, my dad just finished restoring his 30th some odd car....I didn't feel the need to mention my family's car history, but I guess I could if I thought it would bolster my argument.

Anyways, I'm not going to convince you, so I won't bother continuing. Good luck with your Mark search, they are great cars. I am sure you will find one with the stock stereo.

 

[Dominus]

my singular experiences? You've bought 8 cars....no clue how old you are, but i'm only 25 and i've bought well more cars than you.....Again with making assumptions....I am glad you have car dealers and mechanics in the family, I don't see what that proves, my dad just finished restoring his 30th some odd car....I didn't feel the need to mention my family's car history, but I guess I could if I thought it would bolster my argument.

The only person maing assumptions is yourself. You've been doing so from the start of this thread by making up things I never even said. Backpedalling and calling me prejudiced hasn't reinforced your argument anymore. I can't understand why it means so much to you in the first place. If you knew anything about sound equipment, which you either do not, or are pretending not to, you would know 2 things:

1. Most sound equipment out there is crap, and the installations are no better.

2. People don't hand you an expensive professional system for nothing.

Since your father restores cars, perhaps you might ask him if a car is worth more with its stock radio equipment, or with the dash hacked to pieces and an aftermarket system shoved in there. I already know the answer, but it seems you might be surprised.

Anyways, I'm not going to convince you, so I won't bother continuing.

Not by name-calling and exaggeration.

Good luck with your Mark search, they are great cars. I am sure you will find one with the stock stereo.

Oh, that's pretty easy. Most Mark VIII's haven't been modified at all. At least not the second gens. The first gens have a tendency to have been around the block a few more times due to their age.

 

[Chaoticbastard]

What about the trans shudder??:facesjump

 

[67Continental]

If you knew anything about sound equipment, which you either do not, or are pretending not to, you would know 2 things:

1. Most sound equipment out there is crap, and the installations are no better.

2. People don't hand you an expensive professional system for nothing.

Since your father restores cars, perhaps you might ask him if a car is worth more with its stock radio equipment, or with the dash hacked to pieces and an aftermarket system shoved in there. I already know the answer, but it seems you might be surprised

actually, I own a record label, am out on vinyl, toured extensively over the last 2 or 3 years, and am currently producing another artist in my studio - so I do know a little bit about sound equipment. And I am willing to wager that I know more about it than you do.
As for "handing over" a professionally installed system, you can't recoup the money you spent having a system installed by removing it from the car...as was written earlier, car audio equipment usually has resale much lower than retail. Maybe removing head units or subs, but components and wiring usually stays in the car, if it was a very clean pro install.
But honestly, this conversation has gotten way out of hand, and my professional audio equipment opinion has nothing to do with your vehicle quest. If you have any questions about "real" top of the line audio equipment, send me a pm

As for the value of my car, it's not a collectible, so I could care less about the OEM state of it's equipment. Although I did leave the stock stereo in my 76 Benz when I restored it.

 

[67Continental]

sigh.

 

[scott9050]

I used to buy and resell cars for a living (did so for 10 years) and made pretty decent money doing so. Out of the couple of hundred cars I have bought and sold over the years I can say that it does not make a hill of beans difference whether the car has an aftermarket stereo or not, I have seen cars well taken care of and ragged on with both types of stereos in them. I have seen low mile cars totally neglected and high mile cars that were taken care of. Not everyone who installs a stereo is deficient in skills to do so nor are they all teenagers. And why is this suddenly turning into the pissing match forum on the board?

 

[Dominus]

actually, I own a record label, am out on vinyl, toured extensively over the last 2 or 3 years, and am currently producing another artist in my studio - so I do know a little bit about sound equipment. And I am willing to wager that I know more about it than you do.
As for "handing over" a professionally installed system, you can't recoup the money you spent having a system installed by removing it from the car...as was written earlier, car audio equipment usually has resale much lower than retail. Maybe removing head units or subs, but components and wiring usually stays in the car, if it was a very clean pro install.
But honestly, this conversation has gotten way out of hand, and my professional audio equipment opinion has nothing to do with your vehicle quest. If you have any questions about "real" top of the line audio equipment, send me a pm

As for the value of my car, it's not a collectible, so I could care less about the OEM state of it's equipment. Although I did leave the stock stereo in my 76 Benz when I restored it.

Yes, this has gotten way out of hand. A simple comment was taken directly to heart.

And with that, this is over.

 

[Dominus]

I used to buy and resell cars for a living (did so for 10 years) and made pretty decent money doing so. Out of the couple of hundred cars I have bought and sold over the years I can say that it does not make a hill of beans difference whether the car has an aftermarket stereo or not, I have seen cars well taken care of and ragged on with both types of stereos in them. I have seen low mile cars totally neglected and high mile cars that were taken care of. Not everyone who installs a stereo is deficient in skills to do so nor are they all teenagers. And why is this suddenly turning into the pissing match forum on the board?

I think we can all agree that the crap really hit the fan on this thead, and for no good reason at all. Apparently this forum has a few too many hotheads on it, which is quite a shame.

I'm not going to bother replying any further, as I have already requested that this thread be deleted. I already came to my decsion about this car well before this thread exploded, and so it comes to an end.

Everyone is free to believe what they want, but what I know has served me and a 2 multi-million dollar businesses well.