Socialist Ideas - Some are good, some not so good

Mick Jagger

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Presented below are the programs proposed in the Socialist Party Platform of 1912.

Those in red are ideas I don't like.
Those in blue are ideas I like.
Those in purple are ideas I am ambivalent about.

Collective Ownership

1. The collective ownership and democratic management of railroads, wire and wireless telegraphs and telephones, express service, steamboat lines, and all other social means of transportation and communication and of all large scale industries.
2. The immediate acquirement by the municipalities, the states or the federal government of all grain elevators, stock yards, storage warehouses, and other distributing agencies, in order to reduce the present extortionate cost of living.
3. The extension of the public domain to include mines, quarries, oil wells, forests and water power.

4. The further conservation and development of natural resources for the use and benefit of all the people . . .
5. The collective ownership of land wherever practicable, and in cases where such ownership is impracticable, the appropriation by taxation of the annual rental value of all the land held for speculation and exploitation.
6. The collective ownership and democratic management of the banking and currency system.


Unemployment

The immediate government relief of the unemployed by the extension of all useful public works. All persons employed on such works to be engaged directly by the government under a work day of not more than eight hours and at not less than the prevailing union wages. The government also to establish employment bureaus; to lend money to states and municipalities without interest for the purpose of carrying on public works, and to take such other measures within its power as will lessen the widespread misery of the workers caused by the misrule of the capitalist class.

Industrial Demands

1. The conservation of human resources, particularly of the lives and well-being of the workers and their families:
2. By shortening the work day in keeping with the increased productiveness of machinery.
3. By securing for every worker a rest period of not less than a day and a half in each week.
4. By securing a more effective inspection of workshops, factories and mines.
5. By the forbidding the employment of children under sixteen years of age.
6. By the co-operative organization of the industries in the federal penitentiaries for the benefit of the convicts and their dependents.
7. By forbidding the interstate transportation of the products of child labor, of convict labor and of all uninspected factories and mines.

8. By abolishing the profit system in government work and substituting either the direct hire of labor or the awarding of contracts to co-operative groups of workers.
9. By establishing minimum wage scales.
10. By abolishing official charity and substituting a non-contributary system of old age pensions, a general system of insurance by the State of all its members against unemployment and invalidism and a system of compulsory insurance by employers of their workers, without cost to the latter, against industrial diseases, accidents and death.


Political Demands

1. The absolute freedom of press, speech and assemblage.
2. The adoption of a graduated income tax and the extension of inheritance taxes, graduated in proportion to the value of the estate and to nearness of kin-the proceeds of these taxes to be employed in the socialization of industry.

3. The abolition of the monopoly ownership of patents and the substitution of collective ownership, with direct rewards to inventors by premiums or royalties.
4. Unrestricted and equal suffrage for men and women.
5. The adoption of the initiative, referendum and recall and of proportional representation, nationally as well as locally.

6. The abolition of the Senate and of the veto power of the President.
7. The election of the President and Vice-President by direct vote of the people.
8. The abolition of the power usurped by the Supreme Court of the United States to pass upon the constitutionality of the legislation enacted by Congress. National laws to be repealed only by act of Congress or by a referendum vote of the whole people.
9. Abolition of the present restrictions upon the amendment of the constitution, so that instrument may be made amendable by a majority of the voters in a majority of the States.

10. The granting of the right of suffrage in the District of Columbia with representation in Congress and a democratic form of municipal government for purely local affairs.
11. The extension of democratic government to all United States territory.
12. The enactment of further measures for the conservation of health. The creation of an independent bureau of health, with such restrictions as will secure full liberty to all schools of practice.

13. The enactment of further measures for general education and particularly for vocational education in useful pursuits. The Bureau of Education to be made a department.
14. The separation of the present Bureau of Labor from the Department of Commerce and Labor and its elevation to the rank of a department.

15. Abolition of an federal districts courts and the United States circuit court of appeals. State courts to have jurisdiction in all cases arising between citizens of several states and foreign corporations. The election of all judges for short terms.
16. The immediate curbing of the power of the courts to issue injunctions.
17. The free administration of the law.
18. The calling of a convention for the revision of the constitution of the U. S.


I note that all but one of the ten industrial demands are now American Institutions.
 
The question is; how many of those ideas/policy proposals were based primarily in socialist philosophy and geared toward truly socialist ends (and can thus truly be considered socialist in nature), and how many of those ideas were based in primarily in political pragmatism of the time?

Many of those ideas are based in populism, which was very popular at that time in history, but which is not really a part of Marxist orthodoxy.

There is also the fact that most of those ideas sound real good in theory, but have been shown throughout history to not work as expected in the real world (especially when it comes to the economy). In fact, many of them end up hurting the "Proletariat" more then they end up helping them; especially in the long term.

While I do not have the time or the interest to go line by line, I will say that the socialist ideas are flawed at the fundamental, philosophical level. This is due to the major inherent flaws in Marxist philosophy which include; a flawed understanding of human nature and a belief that it can substantively change at the societal level, a focus more on community then on the individual, a heavily flawed and naive understanding of how economies work, a utopian vision that inherently makes "the perfect" the enemy of "the good", and many other reasons. The flawed understanding of human nature is the most substantive of those flaws, in my view. All other flaws in the theory extend from there.
 
The Republican party has no other reason for existence than to serve capitalism. It has accomplished one great historical fact—it has freed the negro. That was done, not for humanitarian reasons, but because chattel slavery was incompatible with modern capitalism.

--The Necessity Of A Workingman's Party; Victor L. Berger, M. C.; July 18, 1912
 
Why do some Republicans/Conservatives contend that some things are Socialism when it is obvious that they don't involve collective ownership of the means of production?

For example: Why does Michael Steel say that President Obama's Heath Care Reform Plan is "Socialism", when the plan doesn't propose collective ownership of the means of delivering medical care?
 
Why do some Republicans/Conservatives contend that some things are Socialism when it is obvious that they don't involve collective ownership of the means of production?

Now, there you are misusing and distorting what socialism is.

It is not simply an economic system where "the collective owns the means of production". It is a philosophy with both economic and political components. The prescribed means to achieve certain goals and promote certain principles in the philosophy is in the collective ownership of the means of production, but that is not what defines the philosophy, nor is it what determines weather or not a program is socialist in nature.

A program based on uniquely socialist philosophical assumptions and principles can be defined as "socialist" in nature.
 
Now, there you are misusing and distorting what socialism is.

It is not simply an economic system where "the collective owns the means of production". It is a philosophy with both economic and political components. The prescribed means to achieve certain goals and promote certain principles in the philosophy is in the collective ownership of the means of production, but that is not what defines the philosophy, nor is it what determines weather or not a program is socialist in nature.

A program based on uniquely socialist philosophical assumptions and principles can be defined as "socialist" in nature.

socialism definition

so·cial·ism (sō′s̸həl iz′əm)

noun

1. Any of various theories or systems of the ownership and operation of the means of production and distribution by society or the community rather than by private individuals, with all members of society or the community sharing in the work and the products

2. The doctrines, methods, etc. of the Socialist parties

3. The stage of society, in Marxist doctrine, coming between the capitalist stage and the communist stage, in which private ownership of the means of production and distribution has been eliminated
 
socialism definition

so·cial·ism (sō′s̸həl iz′əm)

noun

1. Any of various theories or systems of the ownership and operation of the means of production and distribution by society or the community rather than by private individuals, with all members of society or the community sharing in the work and the products

2. The doctrines, methods, etc. of the Socialist parties

3. The stage of society, in Marxist doctrine, coming between the capitalist stage and the communist stage, in which private ownership of the means of production and distribution has been eliminated

Again, you cannot understand socialism by going to a dictionary. All that gives you is definitions dictated by the appearances of socialism; the style of socialism. It is superficial at best and only leads to an oversimplified and distorted view of socialism.

Also, look at the other definitions. They indicate that socialism is based in various doctrines and methods. The distortion you are running with doesn't discount those doctrines but simply ignores their existence; it ignores the philosophical roots of socialism in favor of only looking at the superfluous.

Besides, all the claims you made earlier of of this country being strongly socialist would not fit under the definition you are now running with. So you are being inconsistent here. Why?

And, no, your claims, as they were worded, did not hinge on a supposed "right wing misunderstanding" of socialism.

As is to be expected, the Jagger-bot is spreading lies. Again.

If you want to understand socialism, you should at least start out in an encyclopedia; not a dictionary.
 

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