The Conservative 'Red' Herring: Socialism in America

[Mick Jagger]

Conservative politicians and business leaders in the United States argue that allowing socialist policies to enter into the American marketplace is incompatible with capitalism, and will lead to the country’s destruction.

Despite well over a century of increasing governmental market intervention in the United States, conservatives use misinformation and fear-mongering to falsely conflate socialism with communism in order to attack government social policies and encourage the American people to resist those policies that they would otherwise resoundingly support.

The conservative argument is not only false, but has led directly to the current financial crisis, and can only be repaired through a full restructuring of our business and social sectors towards a regulated marketplace, with strong social safety-nets and structures to ensure that all citizens have equality of opportunity.

-John S. Cline, March 1, 2009

http://elementalescapes.com/Docs/The_Conservative_Red_Herring_Socialism_in_America.htm

 

[Calabrio]

You really are a retarded one trick pony.....

If I respond to this argument, will you ignore it and just post another crap thread of the same theme an hour later?

 

[shagdrum]

conservatives use misinformation and fear-mongering to falsely conflate socialism with communism

Communism is the end goal of socialism. You would know this if you had actually read Marx.

So, conservatives are "fear mongering" and "falsely conflat[ing]" by accurately interpreting Marx' ideas?

 

[taylor414ce2003]

I think these quotes are timeless


Our country is now geared to an arms economy bred in an artificially induced psychosis of war hysteria and an incessant propaganda of fear.
Douglas MacArthur

Our government has kept us in a perpetual state of fear - kept us in a continuous stampede of patriotic fervor - with the cry of grave national emergency.
Douglas MacArthur

 

[JohnnyBz00LS]

"A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question about it. "
George W. Bush

 

[Mick Jagger]

Communism is the end goal of socialism.

Explain to us how the end goal of Social Security is Communism, dude?

 

[Mick Jagger]

You would know this if you had actually read Marx.

Show us where Marx said the goal of the Social Security Act is Communism?

 

[shagdrum]

"A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question about it. "
George W. Bush

Can you say, "quoting out of context"?

 

[Mick Jagger]

So, conservatives are "fear mongering" and "falsely conflat[ing]" by accurately interpreting Marx' ideas?

Explain to us how the Social Security Act can be interpreted to have Communism as it's goal?

 

[shagdrum]

Show us where Marx said the goal of the Social Security Act is Communism?

Can you stop asking loaded and intentionally misleading questions?

Marx had been long dead before social security was even thought of. You know that. You also know that socialism is an ideology. You are, as usual, intentionally misleading.

 

[shagdrum]

Explain to us how the Social Security Act can be interpreted to have Communism as it's goal?

A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.

Loaded question, also known as complex question, presupposition, "trick question", or plurium interrogationum (Latin, "of many questions"), is an informal fallacy or logical fallacy. It is committed when someone asks a question that presupposes something that has not been proven or accepted by all the people involved. This fallacy is often used rhetorically, so that the question limits direct replies to those that serve the questioner's agenda.

 

[Mick Jagger]

Can you stop asking loaded and intentionally misleading questions?

Marx had been long dead before social security was even thought of. You know that. You also know that socialism is an ideology. You are, as usual, intentionally misleading.

I use the word "socialism" the way the right wing whack jobs use the word to include the great American Institution of the Social Safety Net.

 

[shagdrum]

I use the word "socialism" the way the right wing whack jobs use the word to include the great American Institution of the Social Safety Net.

No, as usual. You created a straw man. Just because you say it is "the way the right wing whack jobs use it" doesn't make it so. And you clearly don't have any understanding of reasons why someone might think such a think. Ideology is a foreign thing to you (or something you are clearly ignoring). If you don't understand and acknowledge that, then you are absolutely clueless on what you are talking about.

 

[Mick Jagger]

No, as usual. You created a straw man. Just because you say it is "the way the right wing whack jobs use it" doesn't make it so. And you clearly don't have any understanding of reasons why someone might think such a think. Ideology is a foreign thing to you (or something you are clearly ignoring). If you don't understand and acknowledge that, then you are absolutely clueless on what you are talking about.

I've conducted an in depth study of the use of the word "socialism" by right wing nut jobs.

 

[shagdrum]

I've conducted an in depth study of the use of the word "socialism" by right wing nut jobs.

Sure you have. Dude.

I doubt you are even capable of that. You would have to have a basic knowledge of what socialism, ideologically, is and what most conservatives understand it to be. You have demonstrated a clear lack of that knowledge.

 

[Mick Jagger]

Sure you have. Dude.

I doubt you are even capable of that. You would have to have a basic knowledge of what socialism, ideologically, is and what most conservatives understand it to be. You have demonstrated a clear lack of that knowledge.

The former head of the Republican Party, Rush Limbaugh, has stated that Socialism is whatever Barrack Obama advocates. How silly is that?

 

[Mick Jagger]

Glenn Beck, the current leader of the Republican Party, believes that for the government to provide health insurance for its employees is Socialism.

 

[Calabrio]

The former head of the Republican Party, Rush Limbaugh, has stated that Socialism is whatever Barrack Obama advocates. How silly is that?

Obviously, Limbaugh isn't the head of any political party, but regarding your claim- do you have a source for that "quote" that includes the context?

But do you think that the administration is supporting many socialist policies?
Do you think that Obama is a capitalist?

Glenn Beck, the current leader of the Republican Party, believes that for the government to provide health insurance for its employees is Socialism.

Glenn Beck isn't the leader of any political party and certainly isn't happy with the Republican party. But do you have a quote, with the context, where he said that "for the government to provide health insurance to its employees is socialism."

That doesn't seem like something he'd have said. Glenn Beck provides health insurance to his employees. That's not socialism, that is a benefit offered by an employer to attract and retain the best workforce.

 

[Mick Jagger]

Obviously, Limbaugh isn't the head of any political party, but regarding your claim- do you have a source for that "quote" that includes the context?

Yes.

But do you think that the administration is supporting many socialist policies?

Beats me, dude. You use many words other than in their usual sense. What exactly do you mean by "socialist policies?"

Do you think that Obama is a capitalist?

What is a capitalist?

Glenn Beck isn't the leader of any political party and certainly isn't happy with the Republican party. But do you have a quote, with the context, where he said that "for the government to provide health insurance to its employees is socialism?"

He stated that a particular government health insurance program was Socialism. I assumed that he believes any sort of government health insurance is Socialism. After all, that's what right wing nut jobs believe. Isn't it?

 

[Calabrio]

Yes.

Perhaps you should provide it.

Beats me, dude. You use many words other than in their usual sense. What exactly do you mean by "socialist policies?"

I asked you your opinion.
If the question is too difficult, perhaps you should do some research.

What is a capitalist?

Again, I asked you your opinion.
If the question was too difficult for you, then I suggest you do a little research.

He stated that a particular government health insurance program was Socialism. I assumed that he believes any sort of government health insurance is Socialism.

So, you're acknowledging that you lied by misrepresenting what he said?
Which "particular government health insurance program" that you specifically said was offered to EMPLOYEES was he speaking of?
If the government EMPLOYER is providing insurance as a form of compensation, that isn't socialist.

I request that you post the source of this "quote" as well.

After all, that's what right wing nut jobs believe. Isn't it?

I can't speak for "right wing nut jobs" any better than you can speak for any "intelligent, educated, and articulate person."

 

[Mick Jagger]

Perhaps you should provide it.

I'm too busy, dude. Remind me later.

I asked you your opinion.

It was too vague and ambiguous, dude. I don't answer vague ambiguous questions.

 

[Mick Jagger]

So, you're acknowledging that you lied by misrepresenting what he said?
Which "particular government health insurance program" that you specifically said was offered to EMPLOYEES was he speaking of?
If the government EMPLOYER is providing insurance as a form of compensation, that isn't socialist.

Beck didn't reveal why the government insurance program was socialism. I inferred that he believes socialism is government provided health insurance. That was a reasonable inference.

 

[shagdrum]

It was too vague and ambiguous, dude. I don't answer vague ambiguous questions.

Nice dodge.

You apparently don't understand what socialism is and are simply trying to discredit a critique against your politics that has been very effective...

 

[Calabrio]

I'm too busy, dude. Remind me later.

Yet you had time to respond now?

It was too vague and ambiguous, dude. I don't answer vague ambiguous questions.

That wasn't vague or ambiguous at all.
It might be a little confusing for you since you apparently don't know what the terms mean.

It is interesting that a character with a reputation for spamming long winded, plagiarized posts all over the internet is so utterly clueless and unable to participate in even the most basic of discussions.

 

[shagdrum]

Beck didn't reveal why the government insurance program was socialism. I inferred that he believes socialism is government provided health insurance. That was a reasonable inference.

That is an inference that only makes sense if you don't understand what socialism is and have no interest in reasonable figuring out why Beck might feel that way.

You are setting up your straw men again. Do you get tired fighting them all day?