The Great Orator stumbles again

And people made fun of Bush for being a bumbler.

Obama is 10 times worse. :eek:
 
..in fairness to both of those guys-
the 24 media, the relentless news camera men, the advent of Youtube and nearly EVERYONE having video recording devises on themselves-
it's a very different world for a public figure now than it was even 10 or 20 years ago.

No person or politician is perfectly eloquent at every moment. That's just an idealized concept that been created in the media- by careful control of the politicians image, or an accommodating press corp.

There are a few of these charges that are being repeated by those that don't support Obama's politics that I think do far more harm than good.

The first is that he was born in Kenya. The "birthers" like that might as well be working for the administration.

And the other is the repeatedly claim that the guy is an idiot. Or that he actually can't speak without a prompter. That couldn't be farther from the truth.

The guy is extremely intelligent (intelligence/wisdom contrast) and speaks extremely well- when discussing things HONESTLY about things that he's passionate about.

The significant gaffes he makes come when he's trying to speak off script about subjects that are not important to him, political issues that he has to misrepresent, or things of that nature.

I don't think that Obama is a gifted politician, like a Bill Clinton. His political career is the work of his handlers.
 
Calabrio said:
..in fairness to both of those guys-
the 24 media, the relentless news camera men, the advent of Youtube and nearly EVERYONE having video recording devises on themselves-
it's a very different world for a public figure now than it was even 10 or 20 years ago.

No person or politician is perfectly eloquent at every moment. That's just an idealized concept that been created in the media- by careful control of the politicians image, or an accommodating press corp.

There are a few of these charges that are being repeated by those that don't support Obama's politics that I think do far more harm than good.

The first is that he was born in Kenya. The "birthers" like that might as well be working for the administration.

And the other is the repeatedly claim that the guy is an idiot. Or that he actually can't speak without a prompter. That couldn't be farther from the truth.

The guy is extremely intelligent (intelligence/wisdom contrast) and speaks extremely well- when discussing things HONESTLY about things that he's passionate about.

The significant gaffes he makes come when he's trying to speak off script about subjects that are not important to him, political issues that he has to misrepresent, or things of that nature.

I don't think that Obama is a gifted politician, like a Bill Clinton. His political career is the work of his handlers.
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Disagree about cutting Obama slack vis a vis the media. He's a creation of the media, and he is a camera whore.

He's the one who went on Letterman, first president ever. He's the one who used a press conference to call the Cambridge police 'stupid.' His entire career, which is about seven minutes long, is a result of him speaking on camera. He would be nowhere if it weren't for the media.

Thus, you live by the sword, you die by the sword.

I have no sympathy.
 
fossten said:
Disagree about cutting Obama slack vis a vis the media. He's a creation of the media, and he is a camera whore.
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No disagreement regarding cutting him slack.

But the propagation of cameras and video and 24 hour news and Youtube means that public figures are exposed to a greater scrutiny that those of the past.

In Obama's case, these images are most often distributed by going around the mainstream media, rather than by the media as was the case during the past administration.

My only point was that everybody messes up when they speak. And the perception that Bush was a boob, or Obama is a moron, is done because we're comparing them o a perfect ideal- one that was created by image makers and earlier generations of the media when attempting to glorify "their" candidate.

For example, the far left media back in the 30s and 40s, because of their fondness for FDR, failed to see the significance of reporting the fact that he was half dead and cheating on his wife.

Thus, you live by the sword, you die by the sword.

I have no sympathy.
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Fair enough. But I always want to be careful because when you make one argument based on a misleading perception, when it's discovered, it calls into questions the solid arguments made as well.
 
My point is that Obama was made by the camera. Now he has to suffer by it. That's what happens when you have no substance. Bush had substance - he had a spine. Obama has as much depth as an old Hollywood Western town set.
 
There certainly isn't a lack of footage of Bush's gaffs. And I do agree with Cal. The presidents are feeling more and pressure to be available to the press, as well as the 'victims' of everyone having instant media at their finger tips. Up until Clinton there was only a few hours a day that any network had to devote to news. Now, with the advent of networks dedicated to only news the pressure is on to constantly have sound bites, commentary, etc 24/7 on 1/2 dozen channels, along with the nightly news on the major networks. Media scrutiny has gone from one extreme (there were many people who didn't know that FDR had polio, let alone was confined to a wheelchair most of the time), to now we know what type of underwear Obama favors. There needs to be a medium somewhere, or we will lose good candidates who aren't willing to be the victim of constant media scrutiny.
 
foxpaws said:
There certainly isn't a lack of footage of Bush's gaffs. And I do agree with Cal. The presidents are feeling more and pressure to be available to the press, as well as the 'victims' of everyone having instant media at their finger tips.
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Oh really? How many actual press conferences has Obama held in the last 6 months?
 
I thought you were complaining that you saw too much of him Foss - now you don't see enough of him? I don't think he has done a full on press conference since end of July/first of August... could be wrong. I think he should be doing more - I believe he mentioned at one time he would like to do a press conference every 1 or 2 months. Perhaps a good campaign promise to 'make good' on. However, then you would no doubt complain that he was just being a media hog...

I believe Obama has had 5 so far (so at this rate-40 if he goes for 8 years), I believe Bush II had 28, Clinton had 43.

I know Obama likes the format dubbed Q&A, sort of informal press conferences and has well over 30 of those so far.

So, did you like all of Clinton's press conferences? He adored them (well, until later in his presidency ;) )
 
Calabrio said:
..in fairness to both of those guys-
the 24 media, the relentless news camera men, the advent of Youtube and nearly EVERYONE having video recording devises on themselves-
it's a very different world for a public figure now than it was even 10 or 20 years ago.
Click to expand...

It's clouding the issue to say that media coverage, etc. can give the public an inaccurate view of politicians. It's not like Obama has been caught making a rare gaffe and that overall he's an eloquent speaker. Rather, Obama is an eloquent speaker when he has a teleprompter. Otherwise, he often sounds like a bumbling idiot, which is not to say that he is one. However, if Obama isn't an idiot despite his gaffes then neither is Bush.

Most liberals will accept that Obama is intelligent and reject the same for Bush because they only see him as a Texas hick who doesn't make speeches like JFK. Obviously, despite the media-manufactured Obama persona, Obama is also far from the kind of eloquent speaker that JFK was. In fact, Obama isn't even as good as a public speaker as Bush without a teleprompter. Why?

Because he's really not that great of a public speaker. But also, because he is such a phony that his brain is in consent gridlock trying to parse words and find the right deceptive and politically correct wording that half the time his brain crashes. Obama has been mentored by socialists and communists and he tries desperately to reconcile his defective communist philosophy with democratic principles because he knows that if he is honest, Americans would outright reject his vision for the United States.
 
MAC1 said:
It's clouding the issue to say that media coverage, etc. can give the public an inaccurate view of politicians.
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I guess you'll have to define what the issue is.
ANY public figure now is on camera or being recorded far more than public figures of even 10 years ago. I don't think the number of gaffes is changing, I think it's the fact that so many of them are not caught on video.

To contrast Bush and Obama, when Bush made mistakes it was often SHOWCASED in the main stream news and entertainment media. These outlets tend to remain quite when Obama or someone who shares their worldview make similar mistakes.

But with the advent of "new" media, including internet, some cable news, and the "old" format of talk radio- it's more difficult for the spin doctors, image consultants, and MSM to control what we see of Obama.

It's not like Obama has been caught making a rare gaffe and that overall he's an eloquent speaker. Rather, Obama is an eloquent speaker when he has a teleprompter. Otherwise, he often sounds like a bumbling idiot, which is not to say that he is one. However, if Obama isn't an idiot despite his gaffes then neither is Bush.
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I certainly don't think George W. Bush is an idiot.
Nor do I think that Obama is an idiot.
Nor do I think he sounds like a "bumbling idiot."

Obama is actually a quite eloquent and effective speaker- with or without a teleprompter. However, he is not the most POLITICALLY gifted President. When he is talking on point, something he actually cares about or believes, he's very good. He usually gets in trouble when he's trying to engage in double speak, place emphasis on an issue that he has no interest in, or things of that nature. He needs the script in order to effectively deceive.

Most liberals will accept that Obama is intelligent and reject the same for Bush because
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Republicans and Conservatives are "Stupid" has been the talking point from the Democrats for the past century. Every Republican leader has been called "stupid" by the MSM since Woodrow Wilson.

W. stupid.
Clinton- genius. masterful politician. Gifted liar.
Bush stupid, wimp.
Quayle- retarded, stupid.
Reagan- senile and stupid. actor.
Ford- bumpling, clumsy, stupid.
Nixon- this is a hard one to synopsis since his career was fairly long. He was stupid, nervous, crooked, drunk.... it depends on when they made the attack.
LBJ- brilliant politician, charismatic
JFK- messianic genius.
Eisenhower- stupid.
Truman- under-appreciated genius.
FDR- saved the world. Genius.
Hoover- stupid. caused great depression.
Coolidge- stupid.
Harding- stupid.
Wilson- genius.
Taft- fat and stupid.

Obama isn't even as good as a public speaker as Bush without a teleprompter. Why?
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Well, it depends on when your viewing him.
He's not as good as Bush when he's saying something he doesn't believe in.
However, he's extremely good when at a rally of socialist union leaders.

Obama's has been mentored by socialists and communists and he tries desperately to reconcile his defective communist philosophy with democratic principles because he knows that if he is honest, Americans would outright reject his vision for the United States.
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Agreed.
 
foxpaws said:
I know Obama likes the format dubbed Q&A, sort of informal press conferences and has well over 30 of those so far.
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Or at least he likes how they appear.
The fact is he hand picks certain questions BEFORE the conference. He gets rather cross when he's hit with a question that he didn't expect.

But, foxpaws, you mentioned the mystery around FDR.
Demonstrating the historic bias in the news media.

The press was well aware of FDRs character problems, his abuse of civil liberties, disregard for the constitution, and CRITICAL health concerns through out his presidency. However, they deliberately did not report these things to the population because they supported him politically. They abandoned their duty to the public to report objectively because they supported him ideologically.

And if it were for the alternative sources of media right now, Obama and his administration would continue to shape their own image without any challenge.
 
MAC1 said:
Obama has been mentored by socialists and communists and he tries desperately to reconcile his defective communist philosophy with democratic principles because he knows that if he is honest, Americans would outright reject his vision for the United States.
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well put!

The problem for Obama and for modern "liberals" in general is that there is no real middle ground between the two philosophical views; "social justice" depends on collectivism and collectivism is incompatible with democracy, natural rights, justice, the rule of law and freedom in general.

However, manufacturing some "middle ground" makes those socialist views seem less radical and tyrannical.
 
foxpaws said:
I thought you were complaining that you saw too much of him Foss - now you don't see enough of him? I don't think he has done a full on press conference since end of July/first of August... could be wrong. I think he should be doing more - I believe he mentioned at one time he would like to do a press conference every 1 or 2 months. Perhaps a good campaign promise to 'make good' on. However, then you would no doubt complain that he was just being a media hog...
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Obama is a media whore. He doesn't need pressure from the media to appear. But he doesn't put himself at risk very often, and there's a good reason for that. When speaking extemporaneously, he's a calamity waiting to happen.
 
you did get me foss - forth, fourth - drat... thanks for the smile!!!!
 
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