Thoughts on rationing

[fossten]

This comment on HotAir summed up my thoughts on this very nicely, so I quoted it.

I wish people would understand this. In a finite world resources will have to be rationed. there is no possible way for everyone to have everything. If no rationing occurs the resources are used up. In America over the last 400 odd years the way we have rationed resources is thru the free market by using money. By using money as the way to ration resources we ensure that all things being equal those in society that contribute the most will recieve the most goods and services enabling those people to thrive. Since people then have an incentive to work and be a net plus on society the society on a whole grows and advances.

In a communist/marxist system rationing is done by the state. those with the most power get the most resources irregardless of their impact to sociecty. Everyone else is allowed the same amount of services. There is no incentive to work harder, to study more, to invent new gizmos. Unless you know someone who is has a hand in the rationing process you get whatever everyone else gets.

We live in a finite world. the free market ensures that those most benificial to society get the most resources. This uses the base human emotions of greed for the common good.

Is this fair? It is fair to society as a whole, not to individuals. And the end result is that when society as a whole benefits, then every individual benefits to some extent with a better standard of living.

The role of government in a free market system is to ensure that a group or groups of people do not gain so much power that they become the rationers instead of the free market. In effect the government should level the playing field.

An example would be the insurance industry that has a basic monopoly within state borders. These insurance agencies have made the free market hostage to them. The government therefore should ensure more competition, not become those that do the rationing.

unseen on March 15, 2010 at 8:29 AM

 

[foxpaws]

I do agree with this foss...

And yes, the free market can raise everyone in society if it isn't allowed to just go about it unfettered. You are much better off if your entire society moves forward, and the best way is to allow individuals lead the way.

And those individuals should be rewarded. Bigger houses, better cars, even better health care. I agree with all of that. Effort needs to be rewarded, and well. But, is there a minimum requirement as well? That at the very bottom of the society, what does a wealthy society provide for the poorest member of the society? What does that society deem as minimum human requirements? And what should the cost be for those minimum requirements. Or are we like animals and leave the weakest to die? What separates us?

The basic instinct of greed works well in most cases - however - you have to account for greed that doesn't invent the new mouse trap, but tries to prey on others. Greed in most people means you find a better or more cost effective way to do something to either get more money, or save money, both of which should be rewarded, and will be by a free market system. But there are plenty of people out there who will acquire money at any cost, including human costs. And the free market system, on its own, won't penalize in kind, those people. We punish people who steal from a store, however the free market doesn't penalize people who manipulate it to steal from others.

 

[fossten]

The basic instinct of greed works well in most cases - however - you have to account for greed that doesn't invent the new mouse trap, but tries to prey on others. Greed in most people means you find a better or more cost effective way to do something to either get more money, or save money, both of which should be rewarded, and will be by a free market system. But there are plenty of people out there who will acquire money at any cost, including human costs. And the free market system, on its own, won't penalize in kind, those people. We punish people who steal from a store, however the free market doesn't penalize people who manipulate it to steal from others.

Who is this 'we?' Do you mean the government? Who punishes the government when it steals from citizens? Answer: Nobody. Once a law is on the books, it stays on the books. Voting doesn't change laws. Your biggest error is trusting the government as the benevolent, infallible entity to rely on to regulate human behavior. The reality is that even the damage done in the market can't compare with the damage that government can do. Evil people will do evil things regardless - in the market that may result in some people getting hurt. The problem is when evil people have all the power (in government) - it results in tyranny and millions get hurt.

 

[foxpaws]

Who is this 'we?' Do you mean the government? Who punishes the government when it steals from citizens? Answer: Nobody. Once a law is on the books, it stays on the books. Voting doesn't change laws. Your biggest error is trusting the government as the benevolent, infallible entity to rely on to regulate human behavior. The reality is that even the damage done in the market can't compare with the damage that government can do. Evil people will do evil things regardless - in the market that may result in some people getting hurt. The problem is when evil people have all the power (in government) - it results in tyranny and millions get hurt.

We, as in society...

We can punish the government - we can vote, and we can be heard. Laws can and are changed all the time foss... And in a unfettered free marketed not only can millions get hurt as well foss - millions can die, with no real repercussions to those who are at fault (unless you are going for a vigilante type society). A representative democracy has blood on the voters hands, we are responsible for the government we have Foss.... You might not like Obama - but how hard did you work to not have him elected? Or did you just hole up there in Kentucky and buy a few more guns and some extra rounds of ammo? Evil can be removed in a democratic government. In the free market there is no removal process that works effectively, fairly or quickly.

We can vote with our pocketbook in the free market-but often that happens far to late, and has no real 'punishment' involved after the damage has been done, and the initial profit has been made and pocketed. You can decide not to buy a drug once it the dots have been connected that thousands of people who have taken it already have died or are damaged for life, but at that point the damage has been done, and the profit that has been made is untouchable. And in an unfettered market - those responsible are also untouchable.

 

[fossten]

We, as in society...

We can punish the government - we can vote, and we can be heard. Laws can and are changed all the time foss... And in a unfettered free marketed not only can millions get hurt as well foss - millions can die, with no real repercussions to those who are at fault (unless you are going for a vigilante type society). A representative democracy has blood on the voters hands, we are responsible for the government we have Foss.... You might not like Obama - but how hard did you work to not have him elected? Or did you just hole up there in Kentucky and buy a few more guns and some extra rounds of ammo? Evil can be removed in a democratic government. In the free market there is no removal process that works effectively, fairly or quickly.

We can vote with our pocketbook in the free market-but often that happens far to late, and has no real 'punishment' involved after the damage has been done, and the initial profit has been made and pocketed. You can decide not to buy a drug once it the dots have been connected that thousands of people who have taken it already have died or are damaged for life, but at that point the damage has been done, and the profit that has been made is untouchable. And in an unfettered market - those responsible are also untouchable.

Translation: Blah blah blah, government knows best...Capitalism kills millions, eh comrade? Oh, but you're a capitalist, right? /snort

BTW, thanks for acknowledging that Obama is evil.

 

[foxpaws]

Translation: Blah blah blah, government knows best...Capitalism kills millions, eh comrade? Oh, but you're a capitalist, right? /snort

BTW, thanks for acknowledging that Obama is evil.

I am not for unfettered capitalism. I am a capitalist. You are for unfettered capitalism - correct? The market will correct all - just like in Rand's utopian world?

So, democracy won't work Foss - isn't that how we correct government? How we punish government?

 

[fossten]

I am not for unfettered capitalism. I am a capitalist. You are for unfettered capitalism - correct? The market will correct all - just like in Rand's utopian world?

So, democracy won't work Foss - isn't that how we correct government? How we punish government?

We don't live in a democracy. And you're not a capitalist. You don't believe in free markets. You advocate government control. Do we really need to have this discussion again?

By the way, you never responded to my comment where I cited the Death Panels. Now you're off topic, Ms. Red Herring.

 

[foxpaws]

We don't live in a democracy. And you're not a capitalist. You don't believe in free markets. You advocate government control. Do we really need to have this discussion again?

By the way, you never responded to my comment where I cited the Death Panels. Now you're off topic, Ms. Red Herring.

The bolded part of the blog quote? Where did you cite 'death panels' in this thread?

We live in a republic - we vote in our representatives democratically... You don't like the system foss?

So, foss, to be a capitalist you have to embrace unfettered capitalism - correct?

I do advocate government regulation. Greed alone creates the need. Greed is good, greed is bad, we need to regulate so the 'bad greed' is punished, or perhaps not even allowed to come into play, which an unregulated free market system doesn't do.

 

[cammerfe]

Too much of almost anything is not good. We need to take a drink, every so often, but too much water and you'll likely drown. On the other hand, I don't trust any entity to regulate me!
KS