What Nitrous Kit
- Thread starter KEATSLS
- Start date
htrdlincoln98
Dedicated LVC Member
I run a zex kit on my mark for the last 4 years. Dry 75-125 hp. Its easy and reliable. Just make sure the fuel pump in your car is good enough for the extra HP's.
ILLS
Dedicated LVC Member
I suggest you do a wet system for a few reasons. I do not feel like going into detail again as to what those reasons are but I have mentioned them repeatedly in other threads. A search should find them.
Other than that just go with whatever brand you want, Zex, NOS, NX, Nitrous Works, so on.
Other than that just go with whatever brand you want, Zex, NOS, NX, Nitrous Works, so on.
Quik LS
Dedicated LVC Member
+1
spend some time in search - years for questions already answered.
spend some time in search - years for questions already answered.
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
Zex N2O system
KenS from Ben's Place
<edit>
It works great, but I am a land speed racer and was offered a sponsorship from NX, using a 300 HP Pro system. Obviously, I took it!!
Since you ask, and supposing that your intended use is street and occasional drags, I highly recommend the ZEX 125+ wet system. Since I have one I'll sell you---only used about 15-20 pounds of N2O-worth---please PM me and we can discuss it further. It mounts easily and simply. I have the instructions and can walk you through the install.
KenS from Ben's Place
<edit>
It works great, but I am a land speed racer and was offered a sponsorship from NX, using a 300 HP Pro system. Obviously, I took it!!
ILLS
Dedicated LVC Member
I do not recommend this guy use those 125 hp jets unless he upgrades his fuel pump. Even at 100 shot the stocker fuel pump is hitting 90% duty cycle. I usually consider 80-85% the safe zone for comfort level on fueling component duty cycles so even 100 shot on the stock, while being ok, is still pushing the limits.
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
You got there ahead of me. I have jets with the package that'll supply 175 HP but the pump isn't up to it. I started to use an auxiliary pump, but the dead-head system on my car precludes it. That's why I went to the dedicated auxiliary system. I tried to go to 150 at Maxton but was either under- or over-fueled. I didn't try the 125. It'd surely be right on the border line.
KenS from Ben's Place
ILLS
Dedicated LVC Member
The 125 would likely tip the scales on the stocker fuel pump. Now if the fella swapped a Ford GT pump in or wired a KB BAP then he would be ok for fuel.
Ken, when you sprayed for the land speed stuff were you spraying right off the line or did you get up to higher speed and then spray to accellerate? I assume the latter but figure I would ask.
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
Spray
I've been using spray since the late '70s so I know how easy it is to overpower the suspension with even a moderate hit. My simplest solution was to 'turn on' in third gear. I have a throttle switch, so I could have the methanol pump running and the bottle all warmed up, etc. Then when the trans went into 3rd gear, I'd flip that last switch that put power to the solenoids with my foot already on the floor. I was therefore running the bottle system from almost 100 to just over 140.
With all new internals, designed to take the load, I'll put the system in operation---at least the first 10% or so---at 3K in first and let it all build from there.
Since I now hold the records, I can play with the variables that'll make me go faster. I've already reached the first goal---and without breaking anything. And I have some benefits not available to the average Joe. I'll put some notes on that in the 'Land Speed LS' thread.
KenS from Ben's Place
I've been using spray since the late '70s so I know how easy it is to overpower the suspension with even a moderate hit. My simplest solution was to 'turn on' in third gear. I have a throttle switch, so I could have the methanol pump running and the bottle all warmed up, etc. Then when the trans went into 3rd gear, I'd flip that last switch that put power to the solenoids with my foot already on the floor. I was therefore running the bottle system from almost 100 to just over 140.
With all new internals, designed to take the load, I'll put the system in operation---at least the first 10% or so---at 3K in first and let it all build from there.
Since I now hold the records, I can play with the variables that'll make me go faster. I've already reached the first goal---and without breaking anything. And I have some benefits not available to the average Joe. I'll put some notes on that in the 'Land Speed LS' thread.
KenS from Ben's Place
ILLS
Dedicated LVC Member
Though what you mention is interesting I was more looking towards shot sizing recommendations for other folks. There is a big difference what a car and its drivetrain can take while sloshing through the gears getting off the line and up to speed versus accelerating once you are already at a higher speed and in a higher gear. That would be another reason to be more conservative in shot size recommendations given to the average joe.
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
Spray on the street
I've found that a 100 shot with the Zex wet package works just fine with my '02 V-8. I also found that the 100 NX using methanol works great on the street although I've always softened the hit by NOT using the purge. On the street I 'flick the switch' at 3K in first. Street use is all done before one gets to third.
The various 'burn-out' videos all show activity that's more deleterious to the drive train than anything I've done. (My trans has been re-flashed with an SCT X-cal)
KenS from Ben's Place
On another note, when referring to a 'Ford GT' pump are you thinking of the Mustang GT or the continuation of the GT 40? There is certainly an attraction to using an in-tank design that'd drop directly into place, but I expect to have to use -10 hoses for gasoline and -12 for the CH3OH. I may have to build a pick-up and re-formulate the entire design using a remote pump.
KS
I've found that a 100 shot with the Zex wet package works just fine with my '02 V-8. I also found that the 100 NX using methanol works great on the street although I've always softened the hit by NOT using the purge. On the street I 'flick the switch' at 3K in first. Street use is all done before one gets to third.
The various 'burn-out' videos all show activity that's more deleterious to the drive train than anything I've done. (My trans has been re-flashed with an SCT X-cal)
KenS from Ben's Place
On another note, when referring to a 'Ford GT' pump are you thinking of the Mustang GT or the continuation of the GT 40? There is certainly an attraction to using an in-tank design that'd drop directly into place, but I expect to have to use -10 hoses for gasoline and -12 for the CH3OH. I may have to build a pick-up and re-formulate the entire design using a remote pump.
KS
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
If you install the 75 Zex, the time will come when you'll want more. A kit designed for as much as 75 may well make use of larger-than-75 jets but what if that isn't going to cover your intent? I'd get a system that will flow properly up to 150. As is true of the .45 in your belt, 'It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it!'
KS
ILLS
Dedicated LVC Member
I just wanted it made crystal clear for people reading this that only 100 shot has been used and tested for normal "street" use and everything held up fine. That is a far cry from using the equivalent of a 175 shot which was used on higher speed runs which put less shock on the drivetrain. Some people may read what you posted and interpret that as that they can run a 125 or even a 175 shot on the street with their LS and be just fine. Hence the point of my posting what I did. In my professional opinion this guy should not go above 100 shot for his car.
Doing a burnout in a single gear is MUCH less abusive to the trans than running through the gears while even on 100 shot of nitrous; let alone anything more than that. While computer tuning will help these transmissions survive longer on more power there will come a point where if a person is running a larger shot of nitrous they will encounter issues with the trans. Now if a person runs a progressive nitrous controller then that will be one of the best ways to minimize shock to the drivetrain while spraying.
Yes I am using the GT supercar fuel pump. The Mustang GT fuel pump is not big enough to support the fuel needs of the TurboLS.
If are talking about using dual -10 fuel feed lines to your rails then it is total overkill even at 1,000 hp. I have built a decent amount of fuel systems from scratch and I usually go with -8 dual feed lines to the rails for the fuel. The dual -8's will easily supply more than 1,000 hp worth of fuel.
If I were you I would drop the returnless and run a custom return system. It will end up costing about the same if you can do your own work and will support more power and be much less complicated. Returnless can support big power too but it gets more complex. You can also turn the returnless fuel system off in the tune so that it doesn't throw any codes too. I stick with returnless with mild street cars to 600 hp. Anything over that and I switch to full return.
ILLS
Dedicated LVC Member
Most of the EFI street systems out there will flow about the same from a solenoid, line and nozzle standpoint so those will not really come into play here. Also there is no point in having 150 jets because they will grenade this guys car quicker then sh1t. He should stick with the 75 shot or maybe pick some 100 shot jets up if he wants more. I do not suggest anything more though.
Ken you got to also realize that when you "have a bigger gun" it makes a bigger hole when you shoot yourself in the foot with it too. Plain and simply this guy does not need, nor can his car properly support, a 150 shot for normal street use. Anything more than 100 shot and he is taking a much bigger chance of scattering parts on the pavement.
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
Zex experience
The idea of 'don't get it because you might want to use it' is only an invitation to have to start over by getting a whole new system. I speak from experience because I removed the entire Zex kit I'd installed and went to the NX Pro 300 package.
On the other note, You'll remember asking if I was going to TT as part of the new engine install and I answered, "no". The AJ27 engine going in has a bypass fuel system and I'll undoubtedly use it until I go to the turbos. At that time I may well go completely custom, but will undoubtedly go from the pump to the engine compartment with one -10 line before feeding the rails with -8s. There's a decided lack of space in the engine compartment, and inside the car as well, for running stainless braid.
Thanks for the info regarding the fuel pump. I'll put a plate in the gas tank with a pick-up, and mount the gas pump in the trunk along side of the one for methanol. One -10 is easier to run than a pair of -8s.
I've run the 100 NX with Methanol both on the street and at Maxton since last June. I own six ten pound bottles, and have had them all filled and emptied more than once. I've also tried 150 both on the street and at Maxton but, although it didn't hurt anything, I was dissatisfied with the gas delivery. At Maxton, a speed of 140 takes about 37 seconds. That's why I went to the separate system, through which I've run both CH3OH and race gas---I have a record at Maxton with each fuel.
It's also necessary to wait for parts when building an engine and depending on how the time runs, I may go back to Maxton one more time before doing the swap. If I do, I'll use larger methanol jets and maybe go larger on the N2O side as well. With 112K miles, the car's running great, although I think I'm going to need a clockspring before long.
I don't remember anything about a 'bigger' gun, but about having one when it's needed. I first started carrying a 1911 about 40 years ago and never have shot anything I didn't intend to. As always, thanks for your suggestions!!
KenS from Ben's Place
It's certainly possible to scatter parts with a completely stock car. And any time you depart from stock, you up the chance of something failing. My concern stems from my own experience of never being completely satisfied. Zex tends to offer solenoids about the same size as my pinkie and they won't flow as much as might very well be asked for at some future time. If you have extra capacity, you are more prepared for that future adventure.
The idea of 'don't get it because you might want to use it' is only an invitation to have to start over by getting a whole new system. I speak from experience because I removed the entire Zex kit I'd installed and went to the NX Pro 300 package.
On the other note, You'll remember asking if I was going to TT as part of the new engine install and I answered, "no". The AJ27 engine going in has a bypass fuel system and I'll undoubtedly use it until I go to the turbos. At that time I may well go completely custom, but will undoubtedly go from the pump to the engine compartment with one -10 line before feeding the rails with -8s. There's a decided lack of space in the engine compartment, and inside the car as well, for running stainless braid.
Thanks for the info regarding the fuel pump. I'll put a plate in the gas tank with a pick-up, and mount the gas pump in the trunk along side of the one for methanol. One -10 is easier to run than a pair of -8s.
I've run the 100 NX with Methanol both on the street and at Maxton since last June. I own six ten pound bottles, and have had them all filled and emptied more than once. I've also tried 150 both on the street and at Maxton but, although it didn't hurt anything, I was dissatisfied with the gas delivery. At Maxton, a speed of 140 takes about 37 seconds. That's why I went to the separate system, through which I've run both CH3OH and race gas---I have a record at Maxton with each fuel.
It's also necessary to wait for parts when building an engine and depending on how the time runs, I may go back to Maxton one more time before doing the swap. If I do, I'll use larger methanol jets and maybe go larger on the N2O side as well. With 112K miles, the car's running great, although I think I'm going to need a clockspring before long.
I don't remember anything about a 'bigger' gun, but about having one when it's needed. I first started carrying a 1911 about 40 years ago and never have shot anything I didn't intend to. As always, thanks for your suggestions!!
KenS from Ben's Place
ILLS
Dedicated LVC Member
Ken, if this guy runs a 150 or even the 175 shot you mentioned for any length of time on his LS he WILL scatter his drivetrain all over the pavement and pretty quickly too. You and I have agree on some things in the past but this is one place I completely disagree with you on. I would NEVER tell any of my LS customers that they can run anything above 125 shot AT A MAX and I am not speaking from a liability standpoint here. Even that 125 shot is pushing it and better have proper fuel mods to ensure fuel delivery.
As a performance business owner I tend to have to really keep in touch with my customers, their points of view, and their needs which is something that many others aren't willing or able to do. I understand very well what most peoples capabilities and incapabilities are; especially the average LS owner. I also understand the Lincoln LS platform very well as annotated by my various thread in this forum. I speak from allot of personal experience building cars for years as well as a business owner. If that guy follows your advice I would bet the farm that he will scatter his drivetrain within 1 years time depending on how often he uses it. That is not something that 99% of LS owners want to chance or go through.
You usually have a slightly more conserved approach to allot of these matters but in this case I believe you are suggesting way too cavalier an approach to this guy. Remember that not everyone has the same capabilities and financial resources if they blow their engine or burn up a transmission. I suggest when giving advice to do it from an approach matching what that persons perspective probably is; not from your own. After all you do not see me telling people to run 20 pounds of boost and nitrous oxide on their SUV's or to build fuel systems from scratch, or custom tune their own vehicles. I know I and many others are capable of that, but most people are not. I urge you to remember that when providing people with tech advice.
Oh ok, running a single -10 to the front then Y off into dual -8's sounds good. From your wording in your previous post I interpreted that you meant to run dual -10's from back to front for the fuel. No problem.
As a performance business owner I tend to have to really keep in touch with my customers, their points of view, and their needs which is something that many others aren't willing or able to do. I understand very well what most peoples capabilities and incapabilities are; especially the average LS owner. I also understand the Lincoln LS platform very well as annotated by my various thread in this forum. I speak from allot of personal experience building cars for years as well as a business owner. If that guy follows your advice I would bet the farm that he will scatter his drivetrain within 1 years time depending on how often he uses it. That is not something that 99% of LS owners want to chance or go through.
You usually have a slightly more conserved approach to allot of these matters but in this case I believe you are suggesting way too cavalier an approach to this guy. Remember that not everyone has the same capabilities and financial resources if they blow their engine or burn up a transmission. I suggest when giving advice to do it from an approach matching what that persons perspective probably is; not from your own. After all you do not see me telling people to run 20 pounds of boost and nitrous oxide on their SUV's or to build fuel systems from scratch, or custom tune their own vehicles. I know I and many others are capable of that, but most people are not. I urge you to remember that when providing people with tech advice.
Oh ok, running a single -10 to the front then Y off into dual -8's sounds good. From your wording in your previous post I interpreted that you meant to run dual -10's from back to front for the fuel. No problem.
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
I just looked back over the last several entries to this thread and realized that I'd not addressed the low end of the HP scale at all. The Zex package I was advocating has a low end set of jets that makes either 50 or 60 HP. That's certainly the place to start.
Although I had 100 HP pills in on the afternoon of the first day I had my car running, and tried a stronger hit very soon after---without hurting anything---I would strongly suggest being careful or having another engine ready to go in. I absolutely agree that the stock fuel delivery system for the early engine isn't up to 150 HP. In fact, I'm not sure it's up to 100. But that's why I put in the 'stand-alone'.
To everybody: Please understand that I'm knowingly 'walking on thin ice'. I'm in process of building another engine with much stronger internal parts, because I know that I'm pushing things. I don't suggest that you do as I do without realizing the potential loss you face. The recommendations of ILLS will, most likely, keep you intact and happy.
I sure am having fun!!
KenS from Ben's Place
Although I had 100 HP pills in on the afternoon of the first day I had my car running, and tried a stronger hit very soon after---without hurting anything---I would strongly suggest being careful or having another engine ready to go in. I absolutely agree that the stock fuel delivery system for the early engine isn't up to 150 HP. In fact, I'm not sure it's up to 100. But that's why I put in the 'stand-alone'.
To everybody: Please understand that I'm knowingly 'walking on thin ice'. I'm in process of building another engine with much stronger internal parts, because I know that I'm pushing things. I don't suggest that you do as I do without realizing the potential loss you face. The recommendations of ILLS will, most likely, keep you intact and happy.
I sure am having fun!!
KenS from Ben's Place