'02 3.9L valve covers bad?

[theophile]

I took my 2002 LS Sport V8 to the shop this morning because it suddenly started spitting ATF all over the ground and the PS is making a racket. I figured with the unusually cold weather (for this area) an O-ring finally gave out somewhere and I'm just not in the mood these days to spend the entire day under my car cursing and cutting my hands. While I was at it I asked them about changing the valve cover gaskets because it has needed doing for a long time and I just don't want to do it.

The shop called me back and quoted me $1400 to replace the PS pump, flush and refill the fluid, replace the oil pan gasket, change the oil, and clean the undercarriage. They said they will not do the VCGs because, according to the mechanic, it needs the entire valve cover assembly and they can't order that anymore. I asked how they can be sure it's the valve cover itself and not just the gasket, and the guy told me the mechanic wouldn't have indicated the entire assembly if it was just the gasket.

As far I recall, the VCGs are a common failure item on these cars but the valve covers are not. Is that generally correct? I suppose more importantly, is it possible to diagnose the valve cover itself (as opposed to just the gasket) simply by visual inspection without removing anything (since that's what the mechanic did given the amount of time before the phone call)? The only thing that would suck worse than having to do the whole VCG procedure is doing it and then finding out that it was the covers themselves and I have do to it all again.

Thanks in advance.

 

[joegr]

Unless you can see a crack in one of the valve covers, I think it is unlikely that he is correct.

 

[theophile]

Unless you can see a crack in one of the valve covers, I think it is unlikely that he is correct.

Thanks Joe. That's what I figured. I'll take a closer look when I get it back.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Good valve cover gasket sets can be cheaply found at Rock Auto. Just don't buy the cheap sets.

Find another mechanics shop to do the work. Sounds like the one you have doesn't know the LS very well.

The PS noise means low fluid. Either a hose blew, or a seal let loose.

Oil pan gasket is an easy replacement, but there is a special torque sequence pattern that has to be followed.

 

[theophile]

Yeah I have the Fel-Pro gasket set. I bought it 2 years ago because I knew it needed doing but just haven't been able to bring myself to do it yet. I did the entire job about 9 years ago shortly after I got the car and really hate that I have to do it again.

On the PS, I'm sure a seal let loose. It happened suddenly as soon as I cranked the car on an unusually cold morning. ATF leaking everywhere. I'm confident it's just a seal but I just don't want to fool with it.

I've done the oil pan gasket before too, I just don't want to. I asked the shop what the cost would be without that and the difference was less than $100 so I told them to go ahead and do it.

This shop is the only one I've ever used because I've always been able to trust them. They tend to do things by the book and they warranty their work so a lot of times they won't do things like just replacing seals because they don't want the customer bringing it back if that didn't fix the problem. I've asked them before if I could waive the warranty and they say no. I don't have the time or the patience to look around for a different shop.

Working on my cars used to be therapeutic for me and I really enjoyed it. Now I hate it and it's a huge chore. I don't know what happened.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Working on my cars used to be therapeutic for me and I really enjoyed it. Now I hate it and it's a huge chore. I don't know what happened.

For me... we had more time back then... and then we got old.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

I just came in from beating the ice out of the gutters. Gonna thaw out... and go back out again.

 

[oddball]

re: valve covers, mine leaks on the driver side because the part that the oil fill tube snaps into is all broken up. Can't keep the o-ring tight. So if that's the problem, then yes, you're just in trouble. Otherwise, it's just normal valve cover issues. They are a PITA - lots of tight spaces, lots of stuff in the way, but it can be done with basic hand tools and even with my giant monkey hands.

 

[theophile]

re: valve covers, mine leaks on the driver side because the part that the oil fill tube snaps into is all broken up. Can't keep the o-ring tight. So if that's the problem, then yes, you're just in trouble. Otherwise, it's just normal valve cover issues. They are a PITA - lots of tight spaces, lots of stuff in the way, but it can be done with basic hand tools and even with my giant monkey hands.

Thanks, that's what I figured. I've done the VCG before, it was just no fun and I'm not looking forward to doing it again. I suppose I should be glad it doesn't require climbing underneath the car.

 

[theophile]

I talked to the mechanic about this today and asked why he recommended replacing the entire valve cover. He said that the "PVC valve" is integrated into the valve cover so if it's stuck open, the whole valve cover needs replacing. I was ready to call BS because I know the V8 doesn't have a PCV valve, but then he said, "Have you noticed any issues with oil being in the throttle body?" And of course, I have. So I just listened, thanked him for his explanation, and came home and hopped on here to confirm that in fact this car doesn't have a PCV valve and can't be "stuck open" like this, and that simply replacing the valve cover wouldn't stop oil from getting into the throttle body.

That's right, right?

 

[joegr]

It doesn't have a PCV valve. It does have a sort of filter to separate out most of the oil, and it is inside the valve cover at the top. As far as I am a aware, there is no reason for it to fail or need replacement. Both of my LSes had some oil in the bottom of the intake. As far as I know, this is a normal condition for them. It was not enough to need to add oil. If it really bothers you, I guess you could add a catch can.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

re: valve covers, mine leaks on the driver side because the part that the oil fill tube snaps into is all broken up. Can't keep the o-ring tight. So if that's the problem, then yes, you're just in trouble. Otherwise, it's just normal valve cover issues. They are a PITA - lots of tight spaces, lots of stuff in the way, but it can be done with basic hand tools and even with my giant monkey hands.

It's not a matter of keeping the O-ring tight. The O-ring flattens out, allowing oil to seep past the O-ring. Put a new O-ring in... and after some time the oil will seep past the O-ring.

There is nothing wrong with the valve cover or O-ring. It's just "the nature of the beast" with the oil fill tube.

Getting the fill tube out of the valve cover is a pain... due to the internal "locking tabs".

Silicone may help for a while, but it's not a permanent fix.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

fact this car doesn't have a PCV valve and can't be "stuck open" like this, and that simply replacing the valve cover wouldn't stop oil from getting into the throttle body.

That's right, right?

As Joe said (and beat me to it), oil in the intake is normal... and can be controlled with a catch can. Summit racing carries several sizes of catch cans.

 

[ajv8]

yes they can warp but it’s rare

 

[oddball]

It's not a matter of keeping the O-ring tight. The O-ring flattens out, allowing oil to seep past the O-ring. Put a new O-ring in... and after some time the oil will seep past the O-ring.

There is nothing wrong with the valve cover or O-ring. It's just "the nature of the beast" with the oil fill tube.

Getting the fill tube out of the valve cover is a pain... due to the internal "locking tabs".

Silicone may help for a while, but it's not a permanent fix.

Ahem.... feel free to stop by and take a look at mine.
That's the problem with the internet - someone might actually know what they're talking about. Mine is actually broken. Like really, seriously broken, from when I violently removed the valve cover years ago.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Ahem.... feel free to stop by and take a look at mine.
That's the problem with the internet - someone might actually know what they're talking about. Mine is actually broken. Like really, seriously broken, from when I violently removed the valve cover years ago.

Did you really just admit to this. I'm wrong, because YOU broke it. Buy a new valve cover and go away.

That's the problem with people on the internet. They don't know what they are doing.

Would have just been better if you had said you effed up the valve cover in the first place.

Talk about lack of information and wasted time.