2001 LS V8 does it have the DATC Test tools?

I took it to a local meineke today and they could not find any leaks and they tested out the the dccv and aux water pump and they said all looks to be working as it should. They even said my hydraulic fan is operating as it should. The manager said he thinks that it's air locked and that it could have happened from a stuck closed thermostat. So in the morning I am gonna buy a new one and that one short piece of coolant hose that connects to the thermostat housing and bleed the system again and hope for the best. I guess if I get normal heat back then he was possibly right about it being a thermostat.
 
DaleGrib said:
The manager said he thinks that it's air locked and that it could have happened from a stuck closed thermostat.
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I don't think a stuck thermostat would cause air lock... because there shouldn't be any air in the system in the first place.

So there's probably a leak somewhere... sucking air in as the system cools down.
 
Yeah, I don't think this is going to be any different than most of the other overheat threads.
If there's air, there's a leak.
 
joegr said:
Yeah, I don't think this is going to be any different than most of the other overheat threads.
If there's air, there's a leak.
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Took it to another shop and they did a full pressure test on the car and they said they couldn't find any leaks at all. They did find air in the system which they did get out and my heat came back. They said they think one of two things could have happened. They said when my coolant system was replaced right at winter time that there could have been a very small pocket of air and that it might not have caused issues till it got really hot outside. Or they said (which they think more likely) that when I had my valve cover gaskets changed that air got in during that cause he thinks there is a good chance one of the lines was taken off to make the valve cover gasket job easier. He said it was not a huge air pocket but for sure air was in there regardless of how it happened. And I have more coolant in the degas bottle after he did that so it does look like something changed in a good way. He ran the car for quite sometime this morning and measured the temp of the coolant system and all looked perfect. Still having some trouble at times with heat in the car it works best wide open but a littler lower in temp and not the greatest amount of heat at times. He said most likely there is a chance that a blend door is starting to fail. Does that sound right?
 
DaleGrib said:
... He said most likely there is a chance that a blend door is starting to fail. Does that sound right?
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Okay, the the 1001 time, the LS does not have an air temperature blend door. It really, absolutely does not, so that can not ever be the problem. Why do people throw that out without knowing? The LS is not the only car that does not use temperature blend doors.

I can picture maybe disconnecting the engine air bleed hose to do valve covers (but there is little reason to), but that wouldn't cause air to get sucked in.

After several heat and cool cycles, you will know if the air bubble comes back, you have a leak.
I had a weird leak on my 04. I could even see the leaked coolant, but couldn't tell where it was coming from. I pressure tested it cold, hot, in between, engine running, engine not running, ... It never showed a leak and the pressure held. (Leak was a seal between the head and the crossover tube.) I relate this just to say that it can pass a pressure test and still have a leak.
 
joegr said:
Okay, the the 1001 time, the LS does not have an air temperature blend door. It really, absolutely does not, so that can not ever be the problem. Why do people throw that out without knowing? The LS is not the only car that does not use temperature blend doors.

I can picture maybe disconnecting the engine air bleed hose to do valve covers (but there is little reason to), but that wouldn't cause air to get sucked in.

After several heat and cool cycles, you will know if the air bubble comes back, you have a leak.
I had a weird leak on my 04. I could even see the leaked coolant, but couldn't tell where it was coming from. I pressure tested it cold, hot, in between, engine running, engine not running, ... It never showed a leak and the pressure held. (Leak was a seal between the head and the crossover tube.) I relate this just to say that it can pass a pressure test and still have a leak.
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OK thanks for letting me know will be finding another shop and will be most likely disputing the charges once I find someone else to properly troubleshoot my car. I was only going off what they said... I had a feeling inside of me they were full of crap cause lately that is my luck with car shops. Just wish I had an idea of where to take it cause the ford dealer around here I would not trust at all. Had one shop that was Jaguar experts and they said a Lincoln LS is nothing like a Jaguar..... so needless to say I am not going there as I argued with the clown about how much similar they are. (Yes I know they are not exactly the same but this issue should be similar on jaguar)

Also another thing is I have not noticed a drop at all in the coolant itself. I have never had to add coolant since the repair last year. The car overheated somehow (maybe something is malfunctioning intermittently) The reason I ended up having to add coolant is cause I removed it all from the system. I did try to bleed it for about 2 hours though once I added the coolant back in. I suspect the air I had in there now as just because of what I did. I just went into full blown panic mode when it overheated which is why the coolant got drained in the first place. (Was dumb I know and yes I let it cool down before I added any coolant back in). But I still see an issue with the heat itself as it will only work on wide open and blows cold air at 85. Which leads me to think I have some kinda of problem. If the DCCV is messing up could it cause anything like that to happen? I ran all the tests I could with ForScan and got no codes at all but as you said before depending on what is wrong it will not show on a scanner.
 
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Is the DCCV Motorcraft/Bosch? It may be sticking, or you may have bad outlet temperature sensors. I have seen or heard of a number of those failing now.
 
joegr said:
Is the DCCV Motorcraft/Bosch? It may be sticking, or you may have bad outlet temperature sensors. I have seen or heard of a number of those failing now.
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Yeah it's Motorcraft. I still have my old one which looks to be in good shape I just changed it for a peace of mind and I have a brand new aftermarket one which I was gonna use but decided against. It had good reviews on eBay when I got it but still decided against it. Would the outlet temperature sensors throw any codes? The thing is it never threw any codes at all when it overheated cause it only got to Stage 2 Warning which was just the warning check engine temperature. If it was not such a pain to do I would swap it out with my old one and see if it made any difference.
 
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My car gives a code for what I believe to be an outlet temp sensor, but it could be something else in there with a similar name. It actually generates a C code (possibly short for chassis?) and calls out a sensor, but it could be one of the other temperature sensors in the climate control system in the dash. I will re-check that and let you know. This situation reminds me of my water pump failure that took out my engine. The impeller fell off the shaft and I stayed with the car for 3 hours troubleshooting in the parking lot at work. Eventually, the water would come out in the degas bottle 2 minutes after refilling and restarting. Kicked my ass. And the engine's. It started coming up black water (carbon) and that was it for that engine. I stupidly moved that water pump to the new engine and when I got it running, it had the same exact problem! I changed the DCCV since water was not flowing into the heater core for air bleeding, that did not help. Finally, I said to myself, it's got to be the water pump! And it was. Once I took it apart, the impeller was just detached. I moved it to the new engine because it was changed 5 years earlier with a lifetime warranteed pump from Autozone. When I returned with it, I asked if it covered a blown engine, since it caused it. I ended up walking out with just a new pump. :-(

So yeah, I believe your engine is pulling in air when it cools, but if things do not seem correct, check the damn water pump. With a V8 and the aux pump, I am not sure if that aux pump can emulate the main water pump to the point where it seems to be 'close to' working.

One other thing, perhaps the system is correctly not flowing water through the heater because it is already 90 degrees ambient?
 
milehighmikey said:
So yeah, I believe your engine is pulling in air when it cools, but if things do not seem correct, check the damn water pump. With a V8 and the aux pump, I am not sure if that aux pump can emulate the main water pump to the point where it seems to be 'close to' working.

One other thing, perhaps the system is correctly not flowing water through the heater because it is already 90 degrees ambient?
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Not saying it's not possible as we all know things never go perfect in life but I replaced the DCCV and Aux Water Pump,The Water Pump, The Radiator, Thermostat and housing (upgraded to metal housing), the crossover tube, lower and upper radiator hoses, the degas bottle (upgraded to URO parts version), the bleeder valve, all coolant part gaskets and seals I am sure I am missing something that I actually did but did not really cheap out on it at all either. The only thing I did aftermarket that I remember is the Aux Water Pump But it was one from autozone or advanced can't remember which but it was not cheap either. At the time that was all I could get my hands on.
 
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XW4Z-19C734-BA
Down low on the sides of the center air box (under the dash).
Just pop out and disconnect electrical connector.

You can test yours first to be certain.

Disconnect and remove them. Test the resistance between the two terminals of the sensor. It should read between 24K and 37K ohms at room temperature.
 
joegr said:
XW4Z-19C734-BA
Down low on the sides of the center air box (under the dash).
Just pop out and disconnect electrical connector.

You can test yours first to be certain.

Disconnect and remove them. Test the resistance between the two terminals of the sensor. It should read between 24K and 37K ohms at room temperature.
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OK Thanks so if these are not working right I could have the issue with overheating and the issue with heat only working at 90?
 
DaleGrib said:
Do you have a part number for them? Do you know where are they located and are they difficult to change?
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Nope, no relation to overheating at all, only to the heat not working on auto.
 
joegr said:
Nope, no relation to overheating at all, only to the heat not working on auto.
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Gotcha thanks for clearing that up for me. I am gonna try to find another shop then and hopefully they know what they are doing. I have found one they said they will test to even make sure my head gasket is good with a chemical test and a bunch of other things for $50. They also say they should be able to tell me why I have heat issues as well. This shop works on Jaguars and Land Rovers and a lot of imports so hopefully they are legit.
 
joegr said:
Okay, the the 1001 time, the LS does not have an air temperature blend door. It really, absolutely does not, so that can not ever be the problem.
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So true! ...If I had a dollar for every time I read a thread you said this on I would be a rich man
 
AmsterDutch said:
So true! ...If I had a dollar for every time I read a thread you said this on I would be a rich man
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I want to say I even remember reading them threads but my mind today is not in the greatest of places. Stressed over the car cause I never thought I would be having cooling issues so soon considering I replaced everything last year. But that's how it goes it seems.
 
DaleGrib said:
I want to say I even remember reading them threads but my mind today is not in the greatest of places. Stressed over the car cause I never thought I would be having cooling issues so soon considering I replaced everything last year. But that's how it goes it seems.
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You have a lot of knowledge on these cars Dale ...Don't sweat it...you'll figure this out ...take your time and with it ...
 
AmsterDutch said:
You have a lot of knowledge on these cars Dale ...Don't sweat it...you'll figure this out ...take your time and with it ...
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Honestly to the point of just giving up and selling it. I can't find anyone I trust to work on this car in my area. I love the car but I hate the idiot mechanics that claim to know stuff but are telling nothing but lies out their mouth. I mean how many mechanics must I go to before I find my issue? I am a disabled veteran on a very limited income and I know these cars are not cheap to work on and fix things but the cost of having to jump from shop to shop is taking it's toll on me.
 
You could get some UV dye for cooling system... add it... and drive it for a couple days.

Get a screw in black light for a standard drop light and start checking all the joints, seams, mating surfaces and such... for any trace of the dye.

IF there is a leak... you should see traces of the dye somewhere.
 
Regarding my comment yesterday about my scanner being able to pull chassis and body codes, I ran the climate control test from my scanner and got a code B2428, A/C Post heater sensor #2 circuit failure. It's had this for a few years now, but I don't drive it during the winter at all and I don't have any issues with lack of heat or cooling.

And Dale, you have not replaced your water pump. I have to wonder, what would happen in a healthy car if you unplugged the aux coolant pump? From what I can recall reading here, most things work ok but perhaps heat is not available? I have a V6 with no such aux pump so I cannot test, but if the water pump is bad (your only non-replaced cooling system part to date?), perhaps the aux pump is the only reason that the car isn't constantly overheating. If unplugging the aux pump is normally non-fatal (I don't really know but I know someone who may know, lol) then try taking a cold start with no aux pump connected and see what happens then. Water pump diagnosis is probably one of the toughest things to do since most cars have no way of monitoring coolant flow, so if you have a pump (the aux pump) that can act as a less potent yet somewhat redundant coolant flow aid, then disabling that pump should be able to tell you if you have a bad water pump in less than 10 minutes on a cold engine. What do you think, Joe?
 
milehighmikey said:
Regarding my comment yesterday about my scanner being able to pull chassis and body codes, I ran the climate control test from my scanner and got a code B2428, A/C Post heater sensor #2 circuit failure. It's had this for a few years now, but I don't drive it during the winter at all and I don't have any issues with lack of heat or cooling.

And Dale, you have not replaced your water pump. I have to wonder, what would happen in a healthy car if you unplugged the aux coolant pump? From what I can recall reading here, most things work ok but perhaps heat is not available? I have a V6 with no such aux pump so I cannot test, but if the water pump is bad (your only non-replaced cooling system part to date?), perhaps the aux pump is the only reason that the car isn't constantly overheating. If unplugging the aux pump is normally non-fatal (I don't really know but I know someone who may know, lol) then try taking a cold start with no aux pump connected and see what happens then. Water pump diagnosis is probably one of the toughest things to do since most cars have no way of monitoring coolant flow, so if you have a pump (the aux pump) that can act as a less potent yet somewhat redundant coolant flow aid, then disabling that pump should be able to tell you if you have a bad water pump in less than 10 minutes on a cold engine. What do you think, Joe?
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I meant to say I have replaced the water pump as well I replaced all parts that were in the coolant system I just forgot to list it.
 
DaleGrib said:
I meant to say I have replaced the water pump as well I replaced all parts that were in the coolant system I just forgot to list it.
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Did all the rubber hoses get connected perfectly on both aux pump and DCCV? Those hoses are a major PITA to reconnect? Did you bleed the car with the nose pointing downward
 
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