I have an 89 Mark VII, I plan on a swap, I know that the 351w would be an easier, and cheaper, but I think that the big block 429/460 swap would have be the most fun. I wanted to see what other people thought.
351w or big block swap
- Thread starter LSCCOLT
- Start date
chestnut101
Dedicated LVC Member
393 stroker
JAX.TRUX
Well-Known LVC Member
stroker
Do you have the 351? or is it already built? - the 385 series is swapable - they make kits to do so - but they are heavy and just as expensive to get built to sustain big power numbers and they are heavy as heck! like he said a 393 - 408 - 427 small block would make big numbers with good heads - heck of a lot lighter - hang a single turbo off it and spank that 460 easy.
Ive built about 10 429-460s and love them they make big torque but you go to the strip and watch them strokers , they will make ya a believer .
You can hang a turbo off a mild 351 and dd it and get mileage plus spank the monkey:monkey:
Do you have the 351? or is it already built? - the 385 series is swapable - they make kits to do so - but they are heavy and just as expensive to get built to sustain big power numbers and they are heavy as heck! like he said a 393 - 408 - 427 small block would make big numbers with good heads - heck of a lot lighter - hang a single turbo off it and spank that 460 easy.
Ive built about 10 429-460s and love them they make big torque but you go to the strip and watch them strokers , they will make ya a believer .
You can hang a turbo off a mild 351 and dd it and get mileage plus spank the monkey:monkey:
I just want a torquey street motor, I am not looking to drag race, maybe some future autocross or road racing. But mostly a dd. It will also be my first rebuild, and want to stay away from strokers to keep costs lower.
JAX.TRUX
Well-Known LVC Member
torque y street motor
http://ststurbo.com/universal_turbo_systems
http://www.cruizinconcepts.com/detail.asp?product_id=CT.87000
http://www.uprproducts.com/hellion-turbo-system-79-mustang.html
http://www.cruizinconcepts.com/detail.asp?product_id=PTK-FS50
This Pro Turbo Kit Complete Street Turbocharger Kit for the 79-93 Ford Mustang, Cobra, and Capri Fox Body with a 5.0L, is good for 400-850 horsepower at the wheels
Rebuild the 302 - hang a single turbo on it - street friendly torque monster - 500hp - 500ft lb no sweat - go read up on some turbo kits like helloin - sts or some others - with that fox platform you have many choices! - hang in some of them mustang forums and watch what they do with a turbo car - you don't even have to change the cam to make 450hp!!
http://ststurbo.com/universal_turbo_systems
http://www.cruizinconcepts.com/detail.asp?product_id=CT.87000
http://www.uprproducts.com/hellion-turbo-system-79-mustang.html
http://www.cruizinconcepts.com/detail.asp?product_id=PTK-FS50
This Pro Turbo Kit Complete Street Turbocharger Kit for the 79-93 Ford Mustang, Cobra, and Capri Fox Body with a 5.0L, is good for 400-850 horsepower at the wheels
mark007
Active LVC Member
Rebuild the 302 - hang a single turbo on it - street friendly torque monster - 500hp - 500ft lb no sweat - go read up on some turbo kits like helloin - sts or some others - with that fox platform you have many choices! - hang in some of them mustang forums and watch what they do with a turbo car - you don't even have to change the cam to make 450hp!!
http://ststurbo.com/universal_turbo_systems
http://www.cruizinconcepts.com/detail.asp?product_id=CT.87000
http://www.uprproducts.com/hellion-turbo-system-79-mustang.html
http://www.cruizinconcepts.com/detail.asp?product_id=PTK-FS50
This Pro Turbo Kit Complete Street Turbocharger Kit for the 79-93 Ford Mustang, Cobra, and Capri Fox Body with a 5.0L, is good for 400-850 horsepower at the wheels
for what youre advising this guy to do, he might as well go ahead and go to a stroker setup. the cheapest one listed was for 1995.00 for a basic twin setup. depending on his wrench skills, will he be installing the kit or a local shop? for arguements sake lets say he has pretty good skills, and gets this setup in himself. what supporting parts will he now need? fuel upgrades, flipped headers, new gaskets and seals, and possibly a few other misc. items. whats that going to tally up to? lets say a 1000 just to cover those needs. once thats said and done, lets talk tuning. if the OP is any good at tuning or has a good bit of on hand experience then he'll save a good amount of coin. but if not, then tuning aint cheap. and im not talking your run of the mill "dyno day" package for 3 pulls. to tune right he might be looking at half a day or as long as it takes to get it right. for some shops thats just a basic tune with a burned chip. lets say he just goes with a basic tune keeping the car under the supposed magical 500hp mark. even thats not a good number. some have broken at even 450, and some guys have put out over 500 and lived. its a gamble. but all along we're doing some serious assumimg, cause if the OP knows how to do most of this stuff, then why would he be here on the forum asking? im just saying turbos arent always the answer. they're the new mainstream, but just like seasons they'll change too. especially once the money involved is factored up.
my suggestion to him would be to find out his intended use of the car, and go from there. if daily driver is included then a stout rebuild with a H/C/I selection for optimum performance. if not a daily driver then look into a good building foundation using an aftermarket block. but before any of this whats his intended use again, and now what kinda budget is he talking? so many variables. just my .02cents. the 460 swap has been done, but like stated above a small block is hard to beat with the right combo.
JAX.TRUX
Well-Known LVC Member
460 or no 460 that is the question
I agree mark - he didn't give much info no doubt - and the turbos are high as a hawks back - but still better than lugging a 460 around - although i love the 460s - Using a 460 would mean he would have to beef the whole car up to support it - like you said he would wrap up a grand in a turbo alone if he did it himself!
I was more or less eluding to the fact that he could get by with running a stock motor/forged pistons and a turbo and make big numbers without having to build the whole chassis around that 460.
Now do I have a turbo on my 94 mark?? no - Do I want one??? Yessssss
I agree mark - he didn't give much info no doubt - and the turbos are high as a hawks back - but still better than lugging a 460 around - although i love the 460s - Using a 460 would mean he would have to beef the whole car up to support it - like you said he would wrap up a grand in a turbo alone if he did it himself!
I was more or less eluding to the fact that he could get by with running a stock motor/forged pistons and a turbo and make big numbers without having to build the whole chassis around that 460.
Now do I have a turbo on my 94 mark?? no - Do I want one??? Yessssss
I plan on doing a 460 in my LSC - one of the guys from bangshift and 460ford has done several in T-Birds and says that some car manifolds will work. D3 I think? Maybe D5... will have to get back to you on that. The headers are stupid high, Hookers are 600.00 and Crites are still close to 400. I paid that for the whole car! I find 429/460's in Craigslist all the time for less than 700. The one I got was 400.00 with c6 attached in running condition. There are dedicated 460 sites that will show you how to get cheap, easy, kitten idle smooth 325/350 hp and probably 500 or so lb ft of torque. I went ahead with a .030 bore on the block but could have gotten away with using D0ve heads for compression bump. 206 factory hp wasn't gonna cut it for me. lol.
I went with forged pistons and bought a chinese ebay turbo to install at some point, 337.50, hx55 ripoff. Pretty big thing. I have to agree, a single turbo on a 460 should get you all the torque you need.
The motor mounts are stupid high also, although I got the stands for 50.00 off of Ebay and have some frame pads from a Falcon that I think will work with it. I'll check the part numbers on this later and get back to you. They were 10.00 a piece.
I'll subframe connect it for sure, but I can't really see that much more in the car that needs mods. The trucks used c6's or E4od's, I'm not sure if the OD will fit, but I'm fairly sure the C6 will fit (tightly) based on everything I've read. Since it's what I have, it's what I'll use.
Good luck with your decision! I think a 351 will need a hood mod? Might as well go bold. As far as cheap, I don't think I can get a 351 in there any cheaper than a 460. Seriously. The other big expense was the pan / oil pickup. Find one from a E350 with a 460 in it and you're good, or buy one from Ford / Fox conversion for 140 or so.
An aluminum head, aluminum intake, aluminum water pump 460 is not that much heavier than an all iron 351. Both will weigh down the front some...
I went with forged pistons and bought a chinese ebay turbo to install at some point, 337.50, hx55 ripoff. Pretty big thing. I have to agree, a single turbo on a 460 should get you all the torque you need.
The motor mounts are stupid high also, although I got the stands for 50.00 off of Ebay and have some frame pads from a Falcon that I think will work with it. I'll check the part numbers on this later and get back to you. They were 10.00 a piece.
I'll subframe connect it for sure, but I can't really see that much more in the car that needs mods. The trucks used c6's or E4od's, I'm not sure if the OD will fit, but I'm fairly sure the C6 will fit (tightly) based on everything I've read. Since it's what I have, it's what I'll use.
Good luck with your decision! I think a 351 will need a hood mod? Might as well go bold.
As far as cheap, I don't think I can get a 351 in there any cheaper than a 460. Seriously. The other big expense was the pan / oil pickup. Find one from a E350 with a 460 in it and you're good, or buy one from Ford / Fox conversion for 140 or so. An aluminum head, aluminum intake, aluminum water pump 460 is not that much heavier than an all iron 351. Both will weigh down the front some...
I plan on doing a 460 in my LSC - one of the guys from bangshift and 460ford has done several in T-Birds and says that some car manifolds will work. D3 I think? Maybe D5... will have to get back to you on that. The headers are stupid high, Hookers are 600.00 and Crites are still close to 400. I paid that for the whole car! I find 429/460's in Craigslist all the time for less than 700. The one I got was 400.00 with c6 attached in running condition. There are dedicated 460 sites that will show you how to get cheap, easy, kitten idle smooth 325/350 hp and probably 500 or so lb ft of torque. I went ahead with a .030 bore on the block but could have gotten away with using D0ve heads for compression bump. 206 factory hp wasn't gonna cut it for me. lol.
I went with forged pistons and bought a chinese ebay turbo to install at some point, 337.50, hx55 ripoff. Pretty big thing. I have to agree, a single turbo on a 460 should get you all the torque you need.
The motor mounts are stupid high also, although I got the stands for 50.00 off of Ebay and have some frame pads from a Falcon that I think will work with it. I'll check the part numbers on this later and get back to you. They were 10.00 a piece.
I'll subframe connect it for sure, but I can't really see that much more in the car that needs mods. The trucks used c6's or E4od's, I'm not sure if the OD will fit, but I'm fairly sure the C6 will fit (tightly) based on everything I've read. Since it's what I have, it's what I'll use.
Good luck with your decision! I think a 351 will need a hood mod? Might as well go bold.
An aluminum head, aluminum intake, aluminum water pump 460 is not that much heavier than an all iron 351. Both will weigh down the front some...
Thats not fair the big ole turd 460 gets aluminum heads/water and the 351w gets irons lol.All i have to say is PRICE you will never build a 460 worth a damn for less then a 351w.
You will always find more 351w swap parts then 460 parts for sale on forums/craigslist.Hell be a cheap ass and buy the 341w crownvic pan and tube off autozone's web site for $80 and throw it on that 351w.
I did a 351m and on paper i'm suppose to have around 500hp. Can't wait to dyno it tho. total cost was about $2,700. I can rev up to 5,600 and she runs 11.2 to 1 compression. It's very tight fit tho, i had to make two inch spacers for the motor mounts and a rear sump oil pan. Quick time bell housing matted with a t5 and I didn't have to change the drive shaft.
Regards,
Aaron
Regards,
Aaron