5R55N subtle troubles or big problem?

[heyjewel]

Hi. My 2000 V6 with 199,700 miles has begun exhibiting a slight 'shudder' on some upshifts. Also a slight clunking sometimes on any shift. The car has been very well maintained and I think the fluid is about 50K old. I am going to change the tranny fluid and filter this weekend. Anyone think this will fix it or am I in deeper trouble?

Thanks

 

[cammerfe]

'Shudder' and 'clunk' suggest that the mechanisms involved in the 'gears' 'shifting' are not working smoothly together. Without any attempt to describe the inner workings, it sounds to me as if you need to have some parts replaced. And THAT means a rebuild or replace of the trans. Wish I could give you better news.

KS

 

[heyjewel]

'Shudder' and 'clunk' suggest that the mechanisms involved in the 'gears' 'shifting' are not working smoothly together. Without any attempt to describe the inner workings, it sounds to me as if you need to have some parts replaced. And THAT means a rebuild or replace of the trans. Wish I could give you better news.

KS

Yes I kinda figured that. Now I wonder should I bother to change the fluid and filter? Throwing over $100 and the weekend at a tranny that may be a lost cause does not excite me.

 

[joegr]

I wouldn't. I think you are in for at least the solenoid assembly or valve body (could be worse though). About a 1/3 of the fluid will have to be drained to do either one.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

^^^

+1... Joe beat me to it. IIRC,,, there is a small spring in the Gen 1, between the solenoid and valve body... that breaks and can cause "quriky" problems. There is an older thread or 2 on LVC about this, (somewhere). I also know their was a revised separator plate for the valve body for certain years. But with almost 200k on the tranny,,, it might be to late. Depends on if you want to spend roughly $500+ to find out. Might work out for ya... but then again it might not.

 

[heyjewel]

^^^

+1... Joe beat me to it. IIRC,,, there is a small spring in the Gen 1, between the solenoid and valve body... that breaks and can cause "quriky" problems. There is an older thread or 2 on LVC about this, (somewhere). I also know their was a revised separator plate for the valve body for certain years. But with almost 200k on the tranny,,, it might be to late. Depends on if you want to spend roughly $500+ to find out. Might work out for ya... but then again it might not.

Yeah I know about that spring, or one like it. The other LS I bought in the last year and a half had 120K on it and wouldn't shift above 3rd. I had thought I bought the car just to pull the engine and put it in my Getrag LS. But wife said - cant u fix that transmission? Our daughter could use a car. So I tried and with a lotta help here and elsewhere I actually did fix it. That spring in the valve body was broken in 3 pieces. I also replaced the solenoid pak so I don't know which actually caused the problem. Oh, replaced the reverse solenoid as well for a visual problem.

So on this car I am going to let the fluid ride for now and see how much longer she runs. I've never experienced what Ive often heard about - the transmission falling out. Wonder what that will be like?

 

[Rockbottom]

Yes I kinda figured that. Now I wonder should I bother to change the fluid and filter? Throwing over $100 and the weekend at a tranny that may be a lost cause does not excite me.

There is some anti shudder product I used in a gm car that bought me some time so I did not have to immediately pay for one. I 'll look in my notes for the name

 

[heyjewel]

There is some anti shudder product I used in a gm car that bought me some time so I did not have to immediately pay for one. I 'll look in my notes for the name

Yeah that might help, thanks. A bit harder to put in thru the underside of tranny than thru a dipstick opening but I should jack it up and check the level of the tranny fluid anyway.

 

[cammerfe]

There is a 'how-to' and, I believe, a 'kit' available on the internet to install an ordinary dip-stick tube, etc, into a 5R55N. I have an engine change on my 'to-do' list and such an installation will be made at that time.

There is an ambitious effort on the part of all the manufacturers to get people away from doing anything for themselves. You should be glad to pay a dealer $150 per hour (flat rate) to add trans fluid.

KS

 

[grizzlyls]

You can go to my early threads starting last year and read up on what happened with my 5r55n. Your description is a lot like my issues, and if you were changing tranny fluid every 50k, you may not be that bad off. What was wrong with mine was NO service ever, and the valve body springs had become tired. Nothing looked wrong, nothing metered wrong (solenoid) but when he did the work he stated to me the springs were whole, but 'crumbled in his fingers' as he replaced them.

Mine had 100k on it, yours nearly double, but if you never had the valve body rebuilt or solenoid replaced, then if it is those things your talking under 500 bucks DIY. I paid a pro $960.

 

[Rockbottom]

Yeah that might help, thanks. A bit harder to put in thru the underside of tranny than thru a dipstick opening but I should jack it up and check the level of the tranny fluid anyway.

I see, so far all my cars because they are older had tran disticks. The car makers are dip -hits. The absent dip stick will lead to undiscovered low trans fluid eventually allowing the driver to feel secure untill his tranny starts to slip and burn. Its the dumbest idea I have came across in my 55 years of driving. What about a dipless oil stick next.?With what your up aginst, go in a well known tran shop in your town because they customarly don't charge for inspection And estimate. You'll save your self the near impossible task of adding fluid by loosening the pan. I would not try it in Ohio ,too cold but in texas you can provided you know how to add fluid hwn there is no hole. Write back , I'de like to kbnow when this no hole started and how can the car owner add fluid now.

 

[joegr]

... What about a dipless oil stick next.?...

BMW and probably some others already have this, in fact they have for years now. Very few people ever check anymore, at least there is some electronic monitoring for oil level.

 

[1LoudLS]

The absent dip stick will lead to undiscovered low trans fluid eventually allowing the driver to feel secure untill his tranny starts to slip and burn. Its the dumbest idea I have came across in my 55 years of driving.

but transmissions do not consume fluid, so for it to be low, it has to be leaking. if you're ignoring all those red spots in your driveway/garage, then you can't be mad when your tranny blows up from being too low on fluid.

those people who ignore fluid spots under their cars also tend to be the people that don't check their own fluid.

engine bays do not have as much room as they did 30+ years ago, any extra space comes at a premium. its also one more thing you got to worry about breaking when they are putting the car together.

also no one ever bitches about the fact that their rear end doesn't have a dip stick, and its not really any harder to check the trans fluid that it is to check the diff fluid.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

But wife said - cant u fix that transmission?

Boy!!! That speaks VOLUMES... about the faith the wife has in you. To me,,, you have a keeper, (the wife... not necessairily the LS).

 

[04_Sport_LS]

I also replaced the solenoid pak so I don't know which actually caused the problem. Oh, replaced the reverse solenoid as well for a visual problem.

That is one of those "both/and" situations. I don't have a gen 1... but from what I have read,,, you did the proper fix by doing both.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

So on this car I am going to let the fluid ride for now and see how much longer she runs. I've never experienced what Ive often heard about - the transmission falling out. Wonder what that will be like?

Just for the record,,, ther "old slang" about a transmission "dropping" just means you will end up not going anywhere fast, (or at all)

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Yeah that might help, thanks. A bit harder to put in thru the underside of tranny than thru a dipstick opening but I should jack it up and check the level of the tranny fluid anyway.

Again... it might be worth saving. Drain out some of the trannny fluid. If it looks more like diff fluid,,, you're probably on borrowed time. If still red... you might be able to save it by items I already recommended. Again... about $500 to find out. That includes the "revised" seperator plate. I wouldn't add any additive... unless you want the next buyer to be pi$$ed at you for selling them a "lemon".

 

[04_Sport_LS]

but transmissions do not consume fluid, so for it to be low, it has to be leaking. if you're ignoring all those red spots in your driveway/garage, then you can't be mad when your tranny blows up from being too low on fluid.

those people who ignore fluid spots under their cars also tend to be the people that don't check their own fluid.

Loud makes a good point. If no drips,,, then the tranny might still be salvageable. Thing is... you need to get a good look above the "belly pan" on the LS. You might find a rear tranny tailshaft seal leaking,,, but for about $10-$15 in parts, (and several hours of labor,,, you might find tourself "happily on your way"

Funny... with all of the quirky trans complaints on the LS... no one has ever mentioned a tailshaft seal leak. I highly doubt they are infallible. Haven't been for the last few decades. Only difference with the LS... is that the "belly pan" might hide that leak.

 

[heyjewel]

Loud makes a good point. If no drips,,, then the tranny might still be salvageable. Thing is... you need to get a good look above the "belly pan" on the LS. You might find a rear tranny tailshaft seal leaking,,, but for about $10-$15 in parts, (and several hours of labor,,, you might find tourself "happily on your way"

Funny... with all of the quirky trans complaints on the LS... no one has ever mentioned a tailshaft seal leak. I highly doubt they are infallible. Haven't been for the last few decades. Only difference with the LS... is that the "belly pan" might hide that leak.

I dont see any tranny leaks at all. Drove it today and felt a definite shudder going from 2 to 3 or the torque converter downshift thereabouts. Also a couple of hard up shifts and a hard shift into reverse. Gotta do somethin soon. Would like to see it turn to 200,000 first!

 

[04_Sport_LS]

also no one ever bitches about the fact that their rear end doesn't have a dip stick, and its not really any harder to check the trans fluid that it is to check the diff fluid.

My only bitch there... is that you pretty much have to almost pull the diff... to do a good proper "flush and fill".

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Would like to see it turn to 200,000 first!

Seems if to me the more you push it... ther more likely things will get expensive. You're already causing undue wear that may be preventable. Why not spend roughly $500 and go for 250K???

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Ya never know... that fluid change 50k ago could be the problem if someone used the wrong tranny fluid. Might still be saveable.

 

[heyjewel]

Seems if to me the more you push it... ther more likely things will get expensive. You're already causing undue wear that may be preventable. Why not spend roughly $500 and go for 250K???

Certainly it's true that I may push it too hard. Problem is my other LS is down cause of a bad noise when braking hard - but only sometimes. Most brake applications are silky smooth. Sounds like typical metal on metal but it's not. Or at least it's not typical. Brake pad thickness checked out fine when I had new tires put on a few months ago. Either something's come loose on one or more wheels or a pebble/rock/something is stuck/unstuck/stuck on one or more wheels. This is very possible on the dirt road from hell we live on. So I gotta check each wheel and find this issue. Meantime I must drive the bad tranny one. Daughter who normally drives the one with brake problems now in my usual car, the Navigator.
I do hope to see this car turn 200,000 though without more issues. Will inspect soon as I can. Oh - where's the $500 number come from?

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Sounds like typical metal on metal but it's not. Or at least it's not typical.

Take a good look at your rotors. It may seem like everything is normal... but they might be building up a "rust ring" on the rotor... from the , (best description???), hub center of the rotor... outwards. Might only be noticed under heavy braking. Turning the rotors may or may not help. Depends on how much the rust impregnated/intruded the steel of the rotors.

OEM is more succeptible to this it seems. Some aftermarket rotors have a surface compound that will most likely prevent that rust ring... where the brake pad doesn't make contact with the rotor. As an alternative... you may want to check you don't have a "frozen" caliper slide. That could cause a slight angle "bind" in the caliper,,, causing pad "chatter".

 

[heyjewel]

Take a good look at your rotors. It may seem like everything is normal... but they might be building up a "rust ring" on the rotor... from the , (best description???), hub center of the rotor... outwards. Might only be noticed under heavy braking. Turning the rotors may or may not help. Depends on how much the rust impregnated/intruded the steel of the rotors.

OEM is more succeptible to this it seems. Some aftermarket rotors have a surface compound that will most likely prevent that rust ring... where the brake pad doesn't make contact with the rotor. As an alternative... you may want to check you don't have a "frozen" caliper slide. That could cause a slight angle "bind" in the caliper,,, causing pad "chatter".

Thanks for that advice. I'm planning to check the car out today.
Related - my getrag ls has been up on jack stands for more than a year and the rotors show rust coloring. (The building it's in is a metal roofed leaky-tiki.) I've been a little concerned but figured it'll be ok since i've seen rotors on brand new cars from detroit that look like that.