Another Bogus Report Card for U.S. Medical Care

I didnt see the 20/20 special. But yes, this is part of my point all along. Our health care system doesnt make sense to me because of this. Its not really a competitive market and our consumers are not good consumers either because the real customer of health care is insurance companies.

I dont think just giving insurance to everyone is the answer either. I really dont know how to solve the problems. What I do know, is that what we have now isnt the best we can do.


That last post of mine says it best, I think. Basically, we have a half-assed universal health care. All of the drawbacks from a socialized system, none of the benifits. Still there is some competition in our current system which makes it better then the socialized ones. Ultimately, the answer is less government (esp. FDA) and tort reform.
 
The only real competition in our system is among insurance companies, medical people and employers. Notice, the patient isnt really in that mix?

As a general rule, you get the insurance your employer offers (if they offer).

Generally, employers are not looking at providing the best health care for their employees, they are looking out for their bottom line and own self interests.

Hospitals, doctors and insurance companies negotiate pricing amongst themselves.

The patient is pretty much left out of the mix.

Now, you do have the option of not using the employer offered insurance and instead paying for your own choice of insurance out of your own pocket. But even if you choose to do that, the employer doesnt credit you the money they would have spent on insurance for you. You just lose that and spend more to get your own insurance. Moreover, if you have an ongoing condition such a diabetes, you may not be able to get that covered if you go to private insurance. (pre existing condition)

So you dont REALLY have much of a choice there. Hence, there is no real competition.

And, if your employer doesnt offer insurance, which usually is the case for lower paid jobs, and you cant afford to buy insurance on that lower income salary, then you can get health care if you are in a life threatening situation. But if you cant pay the bills, you face alot of other issues, like your credit being destroyed or losing what little assets you might have.

I knew a bankruptcy attorney once. He was a good friend. He once told me that most of the bankruptcies he did involved medical bills and that they were usually the trigger for a BK.

You've mentioned tort reform on a few notes. Clearly malpractice insurance plays a part in all this. Doctors order all kinds of tests that are really not necessary, but they are covering their backside.

Like I have said before (in another thread) -- I got a cortizone injection in my elbow. 1 doctor visit, medicine was $15, the rest of the bill (after insurance discounts) was $285. Seems high to me. Insurance didnt pay because it was a "surgical procedure" so it went to my deductible.

Anytime it costs an insured person $285 for an injection of $15 worth of medicine, there are problems in the system. Plain and simple.
 
The only real competition in our system is among insurance companies, medical people and employers. Notice, the patient isnt really in that mix?

As a general rule, you get the insurance your employer offers (if they offer).

Generally, employers are not looking at providing the best health care for their employees, they are looking out for their bottom line and own self interests.

Hospitals, doctors and insurance companies negotiate pricing amongst themselves.

The patient is pretty much left out of the mix.

Now, you do have the option of not using the employer offered insurance and instead paying for your own choice of insurance out of your own pocket. But even if you choose to do that, the employer doesnt credit you the money they would have spent on insurance for you. You just lose that and spend more to get your own insurance. Moreover, if you have an ongoing condition such a diabetes, you may not be able to get that covered if you go to private insurance. (pre existing condition)

So you dont REALLY have much of a choice there. Hence, there is no real competition.

And, if your employer doesnt offer insurance, which usually is the case for lower paid jobs, and you cant afford to buy insurance on that lower income salary, then you can get health care if you are in a life threatening situation. But if you cant pay the bills, you face alot of other issues, like your credit being destroyed or losing what little assets you might have.

I knew a bankruptcy attorney once. He was a good friend. He once told me that most of the bankruptcies he did involved medical bills and that they were usually the trigger for a BK.

You've mentioned tort reform on a few notes. Clearly malpractice insurance plays a part in all this. Doctors order all kinds of tests that are really not necessary, but they are covering their backside.

Like I have said before (in another thread) -- I got a cortizone injection in my elbow. 1 doctor visit, medicine was $15, the rest of the bill (after insurance discounts) was $285. Seems high to me. Insurance didnt pay because it was a "surgical procedure" so it went to my deductible.

Anytime it costs an insured person $285 for an injection of $15 worth of medicine, there are problems in the system. Plain and simple.


Like I said, there is some competition. You always have the option of buying private insurance. In a socialized system, there is no competition. You have the states health care and thats it. If they don't cover what you what, you are out of luck. There definately could be more competition in the current system today. Basically it boils down to two possible solutions for health care; more government regulation or less government regulation. The people who are pushing health care as a major problem want more government even though the heavy government involvement in healthcare is causing the problems today. I don't agree that there is a major problem with the health care system. It isn't perfect, but it is still the best in the world. Where I wanna see reform is in the FDA and tort reform. The problem is, none of those two is likely.

Remember "not much of a choice" and "absolutely no choice" are two completely different things.
 
The only real competition in our system is among insurance companies, medical people and employers. Notice, the patient isnt really in that mix?

As a general rule, you get the insurance your employer offers (if they offer).

Generally, employers are not looking at providing the best health care for their employees, they are looking out for their bottom line and own self interests.

Hospitals, doctors and insurance companies negotiate pricing amongst themselves.

The patient is pretty much left out of the mix.

Now, you do have the option of not using the employer offered insurance and instead paying for your own choice of insurance out of your own pocket. But even if you choose to do that, the employer doesnt credit you the money they would have spent on insurance for you. You just lose that and spend more to get your own insurance. Moreover, if you have an ongoing condition such a diabetes, you may not be able to get that covered if you go to private insurance. (pre existing condition)

So you dont REALLY have much of a choice there. Hence, there is no real competition.

And, if your employer doesnt offer insurance, which usually is the case for lower paid jobs, and you cant afford to buy insurance on that lower income salary, then you can get health care if you are in a life threatening situation. But if you cant pay the bills, you face alot of other issues, like your credit being destroyed or losing what little assets you might have.

I knew a bankruptcy attorney once. He was a good friend. He once told me that most of the bankruptcies he did involved medical bills and that they were usually the trigger for a BK.

You've mentioned tort reform on a few notes. Clearly malpractice insurance plays a part in all this. Doctors order all kinds of tests that are really not necessary, but they are covering their backside.

Like I have said before (in another thread) -- I got a cortizone injection in my elbow. 1 doctor visit, medicine was $15, the rest of the bill (after insurance discounts) was $285. Seems high to me. Insurance didnt pay because it was a "surgical procedure" so it went to my deductible.

Anytime it costs an insured person $285 for an injection of $15 worth of medicine, there are problems in the system. Plain and simple.

You don't like the price, so there's something wrong with the system? That's absurd. Did you shop around? Do you complain about the system every time you don't like a price on anything, or do you just look elsewhere? But you chose to pay it. I also had tendinitis and I chose NOT to pay for a surgical procedure and instead just waited for it to go away, which it did. So we do have choices that are money oriented. You also could have shopped around for a cheaper rate by just asking the price of the procedure. If you didn't know you could do that, well sorry.

Hillary's plan takes away ALL choice for EVERYBODY by mandating that every family has healthcare coverage. What will happen is that the government will determine what doctor you can go see, when, and what procedure you can qualify for. To extrapolate, you might have to wait 6 months for a cortizone shot and you'd have to qualify for it. By that time the pain's almost gone, so what's the point? Say bye bye to your choice.

Socialized medicine the likes of which Hillary will foist on this country will take away competition, incentive to innovate, incentive to lower costs, and incentive to pursue medicine as a profession.
 
You don't like the price, so there's something wrong with the system? That's absurd. Did you shop around? Do you complain about the system every time you don't like a price on anything, or do you just look elsewhere? But you chose to pay it. I also had tendinitis and I chose NOT to pay for a surgical procedure and instead just waited for it to go away, which it did. So we do have choices that are money oriented. You also could have shopped around for a cheaper rate by just asking the price of the procedure. If you didn't know you could do that, well sorry.

Its not about the price of that one procedure, or the procedure itself. I can afford to pay it. Its not about that, its about the system as a whole and my belief that it CAN BE BETTER. You really want to tell me that it cant be better? You want to really tell me that this is the best we can do?

And I waited 6 months for my tendinitis to go away before I went near a doctor. When it got so bad that I could barely lift a coffee cup to my mouth, I felt it was time to seek medical attention.

I also have not said I support Hillary's anything or socialized anything. Stop making this about one party or one candidate.
 
Its not about the price of that one procedure, or the procedure itself. I can afford to pay it. Its not about that, its about the system as a whole and my belief that it CAN BE BETTER. You really want to tell me that it cant be better? You want to really tell me that this is the best we can do?

And I waited 6 months for my tendinitis to go away before I went near a doctor. When it got so bad that I could barely lift a coffee cup to my mouth, I felt it was time to seek medical attention.

I also have not said I support Hillary's anything or socialized anything. Stop making this about one party or one candidate.
Deep breaths, Joey. We're making progress here.

1. I agree the system can be better, and reducing dependency on health insurance MAY BE part of the solution. Certainly going the other way, i.e. Canada, is the wrong answer. I really wish you'd watched the 20/20 episode, you'd have gotten some good info. It boils down to this: Michael Moore is full of crap, and he's a hypocrite. Furthermore, when doctors stop taking insurance, patients' costs go waaaay down. It's really happening. It needs to happen more. Save insurance for the serious stuff, like your elbow. And I'm not being sarcastic there. It's too bad your insurance didn't cover it.

2. If you are still on the fence about Hillary after the information I've posted about her desire for socialized medicine, you haven't been paying attention. Her "solution" will be the "final solution" for our quality of care.

3. I had tendinitis in both elbows and it took a year to go away. I couldn't play tennis or lift weights for a year. And I had to change jobs because that was causing the problem.
 
1. I agree the system can be better, and reducing dependency on health insurance MAY BE part of the solution. Certainly going the other way, i.e. Canada, is the wrong answer. I really wish you'd watched the 20/20 episode, you'd have gotten some good info. It boils down to this: Michael Moore is full of crap, and he's a hypocrite. Furthermore, when doctors stop taking insurance, patients' costs go waaaay down. It's really happening. It needs to happen more. Save insurance for the serious stuff, like your elbow. And I'm not being sarcastic there. It's too bad your insurance didn't cover it.

In my case, I am a "bleeding from my eyes before I go to the Doctor" kinda guy. So I dont overuse health care. But, how could patient costs go down when doctors dont take insurance?

Keep in mind. I am not advocating any one specific idea. I dont think anyone has the answer yet. Honestly, I dont think we'll ever get an answer because it would probably mean such a huge overhaul its not even funny.


2. If you are still on the fence about Hillary after the information I've posted about her desire for socialized medicine, you haven't been paying attention. Her "solution" will be the "final solution" for our quality of care.

You keep throwing around the word 'socialized' - like its now some boogeyman - dont we already have that for our elderly? Medicare.


3. I had tendinitis in both elbows and it took a year to go away. I couldn't play tennis or lift weights for a year. And I had to change jobs because that was causing the problem.

I wish mine was that minor. And if I change Jobs, LVC goes away, we cant have that now can we? :)


2 of the restaurants I used to own were in a not-for-profit hospital. I saw alot and heard even more. (I even dated a girl that was one of the higher ups in the administration) Anyone who thinks the hospitals and doctors arent partly to blame is fooling themselves. This hospital would spend ungodly amounts of money on things that were totally unecessary.

One example, in the lobby, they had - get this - a grand piano and a guy paid to sit there and play it all day.
 
In my case, I am a "bleeding from my eyes before I go to the Doctor" kinda guy. So I dont overuse health care. But, how could patient costs go down when doctors dont take insurance?
Because if the patients are paying the bills themselves, using their own money, they will shop around, which will force providers to compete with each other, thus driving down their prices. It's the same as in any industry. Stossel featured a couple of doctors that had price lists, and the prices were cheap. He also featured shopping center clinics staffed by nurses treating people for ear infections and sore throats, etc. It was $59 or less per appointment, and it was walk in. Very impressive. So that's good news, now if only it could happen more often.
Keep in mind. I am not advocating any one specific idea. I dont think anyone has the answer yet. Honestly, I dont think we'll ever get an answer because it would probably mean such a huge overhaul its not even funny.
Yeah, just like the IRS - never happen in my lifetime.
You keep throwing around the word 'socialized' - like its now some boogeyman - dont we already have that for our elderly? Medicare.
Yeah, and Medicare is crap IMHO. Socialized medicine = waiting 18 weeks for an MRI - sound like a good healthcare system to you? That's Canada's system. They had to tell this poor schmuck on a gurney that they had no ICU hospital bed for him anywhere in Canada, even though the guy had just had a heart attack. He has to wait until somebody dies or is transferred out of ICU.
2 of the restaurants I used to own were in a not-for-profit hospital. I saw alot and heard even more. (I even dated a girl that was one of the higher ups in the administration) Anyone who thinks the hospitals and doctors arent partly to blame is fooling themselves. This hospital would spend ungodly amounts of money on things that were totally unecessary.

One example, in the lobby, they had - get this - a grand piano and a guy paid to sit there and play it all day.
Oh yeah, they won't cut their costs until they have an incentive to do so, and as long as insurance companies are paying the bills, they will continue to spend other people's money like it grows on trees.
 

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