Another won't start thread

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heyjewel

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So I drove my V6 auto 2000 LS into my shop and put it up on jackstands. Did this about 3 months ago. This week I decided to work on the car. First thing I did was go to start it. And it will not start. Starter spins real nice. Crank is spinning. In fact twice it caught but died right away and would not catch again. I tried the foot to the floor trick. No help. I tried charging the battery for 5 hours at 2 amps. Got up to around high 12 volts with no load. No start. Bought a new LS battery (I need one anyway). Would not start. Charged the new one up to 13.4v. Still no start. I had this same no start situation after my other LS sat around for many months. I thought it was the gas. There wasn't much in the tank so I added 5 gallons of new premium to it. No help. I drained all that gas and put in in my old Ranger. It ran fine.
So anyone know anything about no start after sitting for several or more months? Thanks.
 
Check for fuel pressure. Maybe fuel pump failed sitting dry?
Try spraying starting fluid into the intake.
Compression test.
 
joegr said:
Check for fuel pressure. Maybe fuel pump failed sitting dry?
Try spraying starting fluid into the intake.
Compression test.
Click to expand...

Tried starting fluid into intake at throttle body. Engine sorta kicked over and blubbered for a bit while I was spraying. Stopped right after spray stopped. Seems to indicate fuel problem? Gonna get a friend to help me check the pressure tomorrow. Gotta figure out how to hook up this pressure tester I bought. Going to have to break into the gas supply line somehow and replace with tee from pressure hardware? Easiest place for that might be at the fuel filter. Then I can replace the old one while I'm there. I sure hope the fuel pump did not die. There's 3/4 tank of premium in the tank.
 
Yes, fuel. One quick thing to try is to disconnect the electrical connector to the MAF and see if it can start and run that way.
 
I ran into this problem (or one very much like it) when I was getting my '06 back on the road. Check the fuse for the fuel pump in the fusebox in the trunk; I bet you'll find it's blown. I don't remember which one it is, but it's a blue 20A fuse. In my case, that fuse was blown, so we replaced it and tried starting the car, and it blew the fuse again.

It turned out that the fuel pump was shot; so much water had condensed out into the fuel tank that the gasoline didn't even smell like gas, and all of the metal parts in the tank were corroded to hell.
 
SoonerLS said:
I ran into this problem (or one very much like it) when I was getting my '06 back on the road. Check the fuse for the fuel pump in the fusebox in the trunk; I bet you'll find it's blown. I don't remember which one it is, but it's a blue 20A fuse. In my case, that fuse was blown, so we replaced it and tried starting the car, and it blew the fuse again.

It turned out that the fuel pump was shot; so much water had condensed out into the fuel tank that the gasoline didn't even smell like gas, and all of the metal parts in the tank were corroded to hell.
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Ugh. I certainly dont want to have to replace fuel pumps in 2 LSes. But if I have to, I guess I'll have to. Thanks for the info.

So did u find it difficult or expensive to change? Did u have to drop the tank? Did u have to do both sides? Thanks for any info.
 
heyjewel said:
Tried starting fluid into intake at throttle body. Engine sorta kicked over and blubbered for a bit while I was spraying. Stopped right after spray stopped. Seems to indicate fuel problem? Gonna get a friend to help me check the pressure tomorrow. Gotta figure out how to hook up this pressure tester I bought. Going to have to break into the gas supply line somehow and replace with tee from pressure hardware? Easiest place for that might be at the fuel filter. Then I can replace the old one while I'm there. I sure hope the fuel pump did not die. There's 3/4 tank of premium in the tank.
Click to expand...

Easiest place to put a 'T' in the fuel line is in the hose that's a cross-over from one fuel rail to the other. Right in front and on top. That's where I put the tap for my mounted fuel gauge. (In the driver's side wheel well, behind the liner, where the filter lives, is a PIA.)

KS
 
cammerfe said:
Easiest place to put a 'T' in the fuel line is in the hose that's a cross-over from one fuel rail to the other. Right in front and on top. That's where I put the tap for my mounted fuel gauge. (In the driver's side wheel well, behind the liner, where the filter lives, is a PIA.)

KS
Click to expand...

Thanks cam Ill check that out.
 
heyjewel said:
Thanks cam Ill check that out.
Click to expand...

joegr - tried starting with MAF disconnected - no good. I dont think I'm getting any fuel.
cam - you must be talking about a V8, could not locate what you referred to.
 
heyjewel said:
So did u find it difficult or expensive to change? Did u have to drop the tank? Did u have to do both sides? Thanks for any info.
Click to expand...
I used the pumps I pulled at an LKQ yard; I think they cost me around $30. The $50 tool to break the locking rings loose cost more (the '06 uses different locking rings than earlier models--they use a flat stamped steel ring, supposedly the same as Ford uses on other vehicles). The hardest part (after siphoning out the gas and tromping through the LKQ yard in triple-digit heat) was getting those locking rings to break loose.

I had to back off on the bolts that hold the gas tank mounting straps about an inch to get enough clearance to get the locking rings out of the way, but that's as far as the tank had to move. I don't think you'll have to do that, as the older-style locking rings fit through the holes in the floorpan (the new ones are just a bit too big).

I replaced both sides; I'm not sure about older LSes, but on mine, the driver-side jet pump is really just a glorified siphon; the only metal parts were the float arm for the fuel level sender and parts of the sender itself, and that float arm was rusted to hell. The parts that do the actual pumping are all on the passenger side.

On the 2nd Gen, the crossover lines are in the tank, so the driver-side pump has to come out at least part of the way for you to disconnect them, but I think the 1st Gen crossover is outside the tank. It wouldn't hurt to look at it, but I wouldn't think it would need to be replaced (assuming it's just an extra pickup for the main pump, like mine was).

One other thing--the whole mess cratered the fuel pressure sensor on the fuel rail, so if you pull your own parts at a junkyard, grab one of those, too (IIRC, it's held on by two 8mm bolts, and is easy to remove--and it's even easier to drop those &^%$ing bolts, so grab them, too). With the PCM calling for 50psi and only seeing 15psi at the rail, it was running pig rich, and didn't take very long to kill the cats (so now my brother has a nice shiny set of Magnaflow high-flow cats).
 
heyjewel said:
joegr - tried starting with MAF disconnected - no good. I dont think I'm getting any fuel.
cam - you must be talking about a V8, could not locate what you referred to.
Click to expand...
Unlike the AJV8, the D30 has a Schraeder valve for attaching a fuel pressure test gauge, at least according to AllData (or, as I call it after my experiences with the fuel system problems, SomeData). For the V8s there's a crossover hose that has to be replaced with a hose from the test kit (or you could put in a T, as Ken did).
 
SoonerLS said:
Unlike the AJV8, the D30 has a Schraeder valve for attaching a fuel pressure test gauge, at least according to AllData (or, as I call it after my experiences with the fuel system problems, SomeData). For the V8s there's a crossover hose that has to be replaced with a hose from the test kit (or you could put in a T, as Ken did).
Click to expand...

Yes, there's a Schrader up front. But I could not get a reading from it.
 
Sooner;

Thanks for the writeup and the pointer in the message. Wondering if u have a V8 or V6?
Here's something I dont understand - if your fuel pump went bad due to corosion jus sitting around, how come one from a boneyard worked?
So to finish my problem - I have 3 LSes (visit to shrink scheduled for next year). At this time only one is running. So my helper and I compared sound at the gas filler tube on all three when the key is turned on. Only the running car emitted a sound. Stone silence on the other 2. So my worst fear realized. 2 cars with dead fuel pumps.
There is a 2000 LS at a local pick n pull. I suppose I can try pulling the pumps out of that. Will have to cross the ring problem and the fuel rail potential problem when I come to them. NOT going to install a new pump until the car is ready to roll.
Really s*cks that these things apparently went dead while I was resting them. :(
 
heyjewel said:
Sooner;

Thanks for the writeup and the pointer in the message. Wondering if u have a V8 or V6?
Here's something I dont understand - if your fuel pump went bad due to corosion jus sitting around, how come one from a boneyard worked?
So to finish my problem - I have 3 LSes (visit to shrink scheduled for next year). At this time only one is running. So my helper and I compared sound at the gas filler tube on all three when the key is turned on. Only the running car emitted a sound. Stone silence on the other 2. So my worst fear realized. 2 cars with dead fuel pumps.
There is a 2000 LS at a local pick n pull. I suppose I can try pulling the pumps out of that. Will have to cross the ring problem and the fuel rail potential problem when I come to them. NOT going to install a new pump until the car is ready to roll.
Really s*cks that these things apparently went dead while I was resting them. :(
Click to expand...
Just my 2 cents...not familiar with the V6 but if the fuel pump is under the back seat like the V8 I suggest buying a Carter or Spectra I have a Spectra I bought on Amazon for $79 brand new and it's been working great with a huge modification due to wrecking the fuel line but I put silicone around it and it's been running like a dream ...just want to say in conclusion some parts should be MC only on this car and I try to stay away from aftermarket but hell if I was going to pay $368 for MotorCraft fuel pump assembly for a 17 year old car...especially when I only paid $1000 dollars for the car to begin with ...I already got my money back on this car twice over and plan on running her to 300,000
 
AmsterDutch said:
Just my 2 cents...not familiar with the V6 but if the fuel pump is under the back seat like the V8 I suggest buying a Carter or Spectra I have a Spectra I bought on Amazon for $79 brand new and it's been working great with a huge modification due to wrecking the fuel line but I put silicone around it and it's been running like a dream ...just want to say in conclusion some parts should be MC only on this car and I try to stay away from aftermarket but hell if I was going to pay $368 for MotorCraft fuel pump assembly for a 17 year old car...especially when I only paid $1000 dollars for the car to begin with ...I already got my money back on this car twice over and plan on running her to 300,000
Click to expand...

Yeah that's where they are, under the back seat Just saw a couple rebuild kits on rockA same brands as u point out. In the 30-40 dollar range. Now this is for the pump on the passenger side. What about the one on the driver's side, called the 'jet pump' I understand. I'm not seeing kits for those. All I see is full assembly MC on FordParts for over $500. Ugh.
 
heyjewel said:
Yeah that's where they are, under the back seat Just saw a couple rebuild kits on rockA same brands as u point out. In the 30-40 dollar range. Now this is for the pump on the passenger side. What about the one on the driver's side, called the 'jet pump' I understand. I'm not seeing kits for those. All I see is full assembly MC on FordParts for over $500. Ugh.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't even worry about the jet pump until you replace the passenger side fuel pump ...unless you really enjoy tinkering with things I wouldn't even bother rebuilding this thing....just lift the old one fuel pump assembly and pop In the new one in for $70/$80 two latches on the fuel pump assembly squeeze them in and pull up and out
 
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heyjewel said:
Wondering if u have a V8 or V6?
Click to expand...
Mine was an '06, which were all V8s.
heyjewel said:
Here's something I dont understand - if your fuel pump went bad due to corosion jus sitting around, how come one from a boneyard worked?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure why mine was so badly corroded, but the one I pulled from the '06 in the LKQ yard was not corroded at all. I'm not sure if they punctured the gas tank to drain it, but it was definitely empty, and it seems like it was open to the atmosphere--there wasn't a hint of liquid in the tank.
heyjewel said:
So to finish my problem - I have 3 LSes (visit to shrink scheduled for next year).
Click to expand...
I think you're in too deep for help. :D
heyjewel said:
At this time only one is running. So my helper and I compared sound at the gas filler tube on all three when the key is turned on. Only the running car emitted a sound. Stone silence on the other 2. So my worst fear realized. 2 cars with dead fuel pumps.
There is a 2000 LS at a local pick n pull. I suppose I can try pulling the pumps out of that. Will have to cross the ring problem and the fuel rail potential problem when I come to them. NOT going to install a new pump until the car is ready to roll.
Click to expand...
I'd try replacing the fuse first; when my brother and I were troubleshooting, he found several hits where replacing the fuse solved the problem.
 
SoonerLS said:
Mine was an '06, which were all V8s.

I'm not sure why mine was so badly corroded, but the one I pulled from the '06 in the LKQ yard was not corroded at all. I'm not sure if they punctured the gas tank to drain it, but it was definitely empty, and it seems like it was open to the atmosphere--there wasn't a hint of liquid in the tank.

I think you're in too deep for help. :D

I'd try replacing the fuse first; when my brother and I were troubleshooting, he found several hits where replacing the fuse solved the problem.
Click to expand...
I agree fuses and relays are always the best thing to replace first just to be safe ...and I agree if the fuse keeps burning out as mine did ...I would bet you a dollar to a donut it's the passenger side fuel pump
 
Usually this time of year it's battery related (freeezing temps) but I agree it's probably a fuel pump due to the blown fuse. Learned from my experience anyway. Good luck with yours
 
FoMoCo nomenclature sometimes sucks. The 'pump' on the driver's side isn't a pump at all, it's a siphoning arrangement to transfer fuel to the passenger side where the actual fuel pump is.

KS
 
cammerfe said:
FoMoCo nomenclature sometimes sucks. The 'pump' on the driver's side isn't a pump at all, it's a siphoning arrangement to transfer fuel to the passenger side where the actual fuel pump is.
Click to expand...
Yep. I found a pic of a 1st Gen "transfer pump," and it looks a lot like the 2nd Gen "pump," although the 2nd Gen pump is a more simple design because the in-tank cross over lines eliminate a lot of the 1st Gen's tubing. (I didn't take pics when I was doing it, but my recollection is that the 2nd Gen transfer pump doesn't have any external fuel connections, just the plug for the fuel level sender.)

Based on that pic, I'd say if the float arm on the passenger-side pump looks OK, the driver's side transfer pump is probably OK, too. Mine looked like wire coathangers that had been buried in the back yard for a few years...
 
I did check the fuse inn the trunk and the relay in the car which I drove into the shop 3 months ago. Both were good. In fact can feel the relay click when key is turned on. I think the pump is the only suspect at this point.
I have pulled the jet pump out of the other car (being rebuilt) and will order a strainer for it. Will either get a new sender pump or a rebuild kit for the passenger side.
cammerfe said:
FoMoCo nomenclature sometimes sucks. The 'pump' on the driver's side isn't a pump at all, it's a siphoning arrangement to transfer fuel to the passenger side where the actual fuel pump is.

KS
Click to expand...

Yes I pulled out the one on the driver's side and there's nothing that would perform a pumping operation on that gizmo. But what is it's failure mode? I worry because I can find nothing anywhere that refers to that thing except fordparts and only the whole gizmo is available for over $500. I hope if there is something wrong with it that I can find it or a rebuild kit somewhere for reasonable cost.
 
Really, the only things that could go wrong with the transfer/jet pump are holes in the plastic that don't allow the main pump to draw fuel from it, or a failure of its fuel level sensor. It doesn't really have any moving parts to go bad. There are two springs that push the pickup against the bottom of the tank, but as long as you're careful with it and don't break the plastic parts where they mount, those should be good to go. (I'm pretty sure those springs and guides are stainless steel, as I don't recall them being rusted on mine.)

I would think that the symptom of the transfer pump failing would be running out of gas while there's still a decent amount of it in the tank. I don't recall how high the crossover is in relation to the bottom of the tank, but if the transfer pump had a problem, I'd think you'd run out of gas when you have somewhere between 1/4 and 1/8 of a tank left.

If the fuel level sensor were failing, I'd expect that your gauge wouldn't get above 1/2 to 3/4 of a tank, even on a complete fill.

In reality, the only thing that would concern me about that transfer pump is corrosion on the float arm. If it looks OK, it probably is.
 
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