Audio Advice and Enlightenment

[Phlox]

Yeah, I thought about that. The gasket on the backplate wasn't cut, so it still conforms/squishes around the HID wires. I also trimmed the rubber grommet from the harness to fit inside the trimmed area as well. The amount of plastic material I removed was actually fairly little, maybe 3/8" wide and just tall enough to allocate for the wires and not compress or crimp them with the hard plastic rim.

Talking about dust, I inspected the headlamp housing -- and to me, it appears that the frontal lens area is actually sealed separately from the back of the unit. As in, it consists of three pieces, the clear frontal lens, the middle layer which holds the bulbs and is sealed to the frontal lens, and the backing which is only accessible via the removable backplates. Essentially it's like a clam shell design with the middle layer acting like a wall that seals and divides the two shells. My assumption that the only way debris could enter the area between the clear lens and the middle layer was through the bulb socket, and since the socket is essentially sealed with the HID bulb (or OEM bulb) and its gasket, it would be virtually impossible for foreign matter to enter? I could be 100% wrong here, just the conclusion I arrived though my own speculation.

 

[FDR]

The DDM (Driver's Door Module) provides a RAP signal on pin 1 of the 26 pin connector. The wire color is gray/violet. It runs across the dash and over to the passenger door.

Do I just tap into that wire and splice it into the radio's normal power wire or does the radio run solely on the DDM wire? What's the other option if I have a moonroof?

 

[Phlox]

It's your "Acc. Power" wire on your head unit that should tap into the RAP signal wire. Not the "+12 Power" wire.

 

[LS4me]

It's your "Acc. Power" wire on your head unit that should tap into the RAP signal wire. Not the "+12 Power" wire.

There is no retained accessory power wire. The retained power is in the head unit.

 

[joegr]

There is no retained accessory power wire. The retained power is in the head unit.

He's talking about the RAP signal wire from the DDM. It doesn't run to the factory radio, but you can tap it and run it to the accessory power wire of an aftermarket radio. Then you get the RAP feature back.

 

[LS4me]

He's talking about the RAP signal wire from the DDM. It doesn't run to the factory radio, but you can tap it and run it to the accessory power wire of an aftermarket radio. Then you get the RAP feature back.

Or an amp??????

 

[joegr]

Or an amp??????

Well, normally the amp's on/off signal comes from the radio.

 

[FDR]

He's talking about the RAP signal wire from the DDM. It doesn't run to the factory radio, but you can tap it and run it to the accessory power wire of an aftermarket radio. Then you get the RAP feature back.

So just jump the RAP wire to the radio power wire with the normal power wire (on the car harness side) still connected? That won't unintentionally power something else on the same wire somewhere else?

 

[joegr]

So just jump the RAP wire to the radio power wire with the normal power wire (on the car harness side) still connected? That won't unintentionally power something else on the same wire somewhere else?

No, don't do that. That would likely damage the DDM.

1. Disconnect the radio's accessory power wire from everything. This is the smaller power wire with the smaller fuse.
2. Leave the radio's main power wire connected to constant (non-switched) 12V battery power.
3. Connect the radio's accessory power wire to the RAP signal from the DDM. If you have a steering wheel control adapter, connect its power wire to the DDM RAP signal as well.

 

[FDR]

No, don't do that. That would likely damage the DDM.

1. Disconnect the radio's accessory power wire from everything. This is the smaller power wire with the smaller fuse.
2. Leave the radio's main power wire connected to constant (non-switched) 12V battery power.
3. Connect the radio's accessory power wire to the RAP signal from the DDM. If you have a steering wheel control adapter, connect its power wire to the DDM RAP signal as well.

Both power wires are the same size and the only fuse (10A) is mounted to the radio chassis. There is the red ignition wire and and yellow constant. Are you saying that the red wire is just a signal wire and the yellow wire is really the power wire, not just memory?

 

[joegr]

... Are you saying that the red wire is just a signal wire and the yellow wire is really the power wire, not just memory?

Yes, that's what I'm saying.

 

[1LoudLS]

Are you saying that the red wire is just a signal wire and the yellow wire is really the power wire, not just memory?

yes, as is the case with about 95% of all modern aftermarket radios.

 

[FDR]

yes, as is the case with about 95% of all modern aftermarket radios.

Yes, that's what I'm saying.

Thanks. I didn't know that. I've seen them listed as simply "power" and "memory" wires before and never thought twice about it. My particular harness has all the same size wiring, but I did come across a number of them in searching with larger yellows. This should be pretty straightforward to rewire since I spliced the steering wheel control adapter into the radio harness before taking the old radio out

 

[FDR]

What's the moonroof RAP option? I gather it's in the passenger [edit:] C-pillar, not A, but what color is it? I tried going for the gray/violet wire, couldn't find it in the harness crossing over the radio, then thought I found it down by the left foot rest. Whatever wire that was (gray/violet? light gray?), it didn't change voltage with ignition. There was a white/violet going into the FEM, which made the other wire going into the firewall look gray.

At least I got the dimmer switch working.

 

[joegr]

What's the moonroof RAP option? I gather it's in the passenger A-pillar,..

Nope. Passenger C pillar (at the back of the car). This option works for gen II only. Gen I wiring is different.

 

[FDR]

Nope. Passenger C pillar (at the back of the car). This option works for gen II only. Gen I wiring is different.

Oh. So is the gray/violet my only choice? Where's the easiest place to find it?

 

[joegr]

Oh. So is the gray/violet my only choice? Where's the easiest place to find it?

It looks like on gen I, the easiest place to find it is probably at the REM, a yellow wire coming from pin 5 of the connector. It changes to a yellow/violet and runs up to the window switch in the front passenger door.

 

[theophile]

It looks like on gen I, the easiest place to find it is probably at the REM, a yellow wire coming from pin 5 of the connector. It changes to a yellow/violet and runs up to the window switch in the front passenger door.

Is this the connector you're referring to?



I'm also trying to find a RAP wire in a 1st Gen with no moonroof, and I just want to make sure I'm understanding correctly. Is this yellow wire on pin 5, labeled "Voltage D.C. supplied at all times (sensor)" a positive RAP wire?

 

[joegr]

I have only a non-Ford wiring diagram to go by for the gen I. That wire is shown as running to the passenger window switches. It really could be a RAP signal, or it could be powered all the time.
If this one doesn't do it, you may have to do some logic on the two moon roof signals. (Even without the moon roof, the REM is probably still generating the signals.)

 

[theophile]

I have only a non-Ford wiring diagram to go by for the gen I. That wire is shown as running to the passenger window switches. It really could be a RAP signal, or it could be powered all the time.
If this one doesn't do it, you may have to do some logic on the two moon roof signals. (Even without the moon roof, the REM is probably still generating the signals.)

Okay, I'm going to talk through my current plan, and I'll have a question at the end.

You mention the "two moon roof signals" likely being generated by the REM. According to the manual, pins 14 and 15 of this connector carry data signals from the REM to the roof panel module:



This is consistent both with LDM's tests of the grey/orange and blue/black wires in the moonroof harness, and also your comment to me in another thread that pins 14 and 15 of the 26-pin connector were the ones to tap into for RAP.

Now, LDM had success by tapping into only the blue/black wire, which would be pin 14 on the above diagram. And as that post explains, the blue/black wire (pin 14) is a negative trigger that has to be "converted" to positive with a polarity-switching relay.

Still, it appears that others (such as hite) have gotten different results from the same setup.

Also, even if this method works, the drawback is that under certain circumstances, the radio can power up momentarily while trying to roll up the windows.

To address this issue, you suggested to me that two relays would need to be used to do it "right." You also had pointed out to LDM previously that the two moonroof wires (pins 14 and 15) appear to be logic circuits. You said:

If both are low (grounded) the moon roof is powered. If both are high (+12V), the moon roof is not powered. If the first one is high and the second low, then the moon roof closes (when you put the key in the door and hold it in the lock position for a while). If the first one is low and the second one is high, then the moon roof opens (when you hold unlock for a while).

As it happened, LDM picked the blue/black wire, and as a result, his radio comes on when he uses the key in the door to close the windows.

So it looks like to do it "right," it would be necessary to wire the relays into both moonroof lines (14 and 15) such that, in addition to reversing the polarity, the output would be +12V only when both moonroof lines are grounded, and there would be no voltage if either or both of the moonroof lines are +12V.

Is this correct?

If so, I'd appreciate any comments/suggestions from the group regarding the schematic for such a relay system. I can try to research it and figure it out, but I have limited experience with this kind of wiring logic.

Thanks in advance!

 

[theophile]

As to the relay, it looks like the wiring concept is a basic "and" circuit as described here, except that in this application it would need to reverse polarity as well.

 

[theophile]

Okay, I think I've figured out how the two-relay setup should be wired. Here's a quick diagram of what I came up with:



Anyone have any comments before I give it a shot?

 

[joegr]

That looks correct.

 

[theophile]

That looks correct.

Just in case anyone is interested, I did this project over the weekend and it works flawlessly. I don't have the moonroof so the moonroof signal wires are not present in the passenger C-pillar harness or wraps. Interestingly, the wires are present at the REM, so I'm a little curious where they go.

Anyway, I piggybacked onto the wires at the REM 26-pin connector and wired up the 2-relay system as drawn above. I ran the output wire through the door jamb conduits along the passenger side and up into the center console, using it to replace the factory "acc" lead to the head unit. I now have fully functioning radio with RAP, and the radio stays off when rolling the windows up or down with the key.

Thanks for all the help everyone!

 

[FDR]

Cool. Thanks for the update. I might eventually try to tackle this in the spring if we ever thaw out